So, who is responsible for Apple service?

[eezacque]

I am having problems with a rogue AASP who took my money for a logic board replacement, while it looks like they reflowed it. However, I have yet to find an Apple employee who even listens to my complaints, so far everybody tells me to write a letter to Apple Benelux, Apple Europe, call this or that number, chat with Apple support or email this or that address, but my questions have remained unanswered, so far. Nobody is willing to point me to some Apple individual who is responsible for service in Europe. So, I am not getting very far.

Is there any living soul who is responsible for Apple service in Europe, who I can send a letter, and who will send me an authoritative answer?

Also, is there any way to get hold of a detailed report of the history of Apple hardware? So far, I have talked to one person who could point me to the AASP who is supposed to have replaced my logic board, and who suggested that it was not replaced at all, but he refuses to give me further details. I suppose I can have my MBP examined by another AASP, but so far I am not too eager to spend more money on a company I cannot fully trust.

 

[IndoX]

I am having problems with a rogue AASP who took my money for a logic board replacement, while it looks like they reflowed it. However, I have yet to find an Apple employee who even listens to my complaints, so far everybody tells me to write a letter to Apple Benelux, Apple Europe, call this or that number, chat with Apple support or email this or that address, but my questions have remained unanswered, so far. Nobody is willing to point me to some Apple individual who is responsible for service in Europe. So, I am not getting very far.

Is there any living soul who is responsible for Apple service in Europe, who I can send a letter, and who will send me an authoritative answer?

Also, is there any way to get hold of a detailed report of the history of Apple hardware? So far, I have talked to one person who could point me to the AASP who is supposed to have replaced my logic board, and who suggested that it was not replaced at all, but he refuses to give me further details. I suppose I can have my MBP examined by another AASP, but so far I am not too eager to spend more money on a company I cannot fully trust.

By AASP you mean third party correct? Not Apple Retail?

If so, AASP are their own entities who simply got their certifications to work on or repair Apple products. Their service/prices/policies are completely different from Apple directly and Apple doesn't have a way to rectify that.

 

[eezacque]

By AASP you mean third party correct? Not Apple Retail?

If so, AASP are their own entities who simply got their certifications to work on or repair Apple products. Their service/prices/policies are completely different from Apple directly and Apple doesn't have a way to rectify that.

True, but they get their replacement parts from Apple, so Apple is still responsible for the quality of, say, logic boards...

 

[aristobrat]

You said in one of your other posts that you've additionally emailed Tim Cook also, right? I'm sure someone's going to recommend that, so just wanted to bring that up, if that's correct.

 

[eezacque]

You said in one of your other posts that you've additionally emailed Tim Cook also, right? I'm sure someone's going to recommend that, so just wanted to bring that up, if that's correct.

I wrote a letter to Tim Cook, almost three weeks ago. I have a hard time believing he reads, takes action upon, and answers all mail sent to him, but at the moment, he is the only one who can restore my faith in Apple. Time is running up.

 

[Mr Rabbit]

Did you specifically request a replacement logic board? If they simply repaired (by reflowing) your existing logic board but said they replaced it with a part supplied by Apple then you have a valid complaint that could be filed with Apple, by calling AppleCare and working your way up to a senior advisor who could work with the internal department that handles AASP activity.

If they only claimed to have fixed it but aren't claiming to have actually replaced the logic board then there's no claim to be made with Apple.

Simply put, AASPs are under strict guidelines set by Apple to work with AppleCare covered Macs and out of warranty repairs that involve replacement components ordered from Apple. If the Mac is out of warranty and they sourced the logic board from elsewhere or repaired the original logic board then that falls back to their policy which Apple doesn't oversee. If they claimed to have replaced it with a component from Apple but in fact reflowed it, and you can prove such (if you have the original logic board's serial number handy), then Apple would likely intervene and put pressure on the AASP to make things right.

 

[eezacque]

Did you specifically request a replacement logic board? If they simply repaired (by reflowing) your existing logic board but said they replaced it with a part supplied by Apple then you have a valid complaint that could be filed with Apple, by calling AppleCare and working your way up to a senior advisor who could work with the internal department that handles AASP activity.

I did not specifically request a replacement logic board, but a replacement logic board was offered, and mentioned on the bill. However, I have no indication that it was actually replaced, somebody working for a related AASP mentioned a reflow. In addition, the AASP claims to have spent 2 weeks with my MBP, while the actual turnaround time was 7 weeks. I have not been able to sort out what happened.

So far, I have not been able to work my way up to a senior advisor, as the inexperienced customer support kids I have contacted so far bluntly refuse to escalate the issue, and refuse to give me detailed information on this issue. I have talked to some human Apple answering machines, but my letters remain unanswered. This is probably going to end with shattered teeth for the first Apple employee I can get my hands on.

 

[hallux]

You should also keep in mind that parts used to repair a computer may not be brand new. They may be ones that were repaired after being removed from a system then sent out to your AASP to repair your computer.

 

[eezacque]

You should also keep in mind that parts used to repair a computer may not be brand new. They may be ones that were repaired after being removed from a system then sent out to your AASP to repair your computer.

I know, but Dutch consumer law dictates that a EU700 logic board replacement lasts longer than 1.5 years. If Apple decides to use substandard parts, that is not my problem.

 

[aristobrat]

Since you're not getting results through the AASP or Apple, can you not open a case with the folks that enforce the Dutch consumer law?

 

[eezacque]

Since you're not getting results through the AASP or Apple, can you not open a case with the folks that enforce the Dutch consumer law?

I can, but to prove my logic board was never replaced, I need proof, which is hard to get without Apple being cooperative. To enforce guarantee, I need to hire a lawyer and go into a lengthy process.

Right after my laptop had been repaired, I got a questionnaire from Apple, and I expressed my concerns about the repair, issued a complaint: Apple didn't care to respond. It is really worrying that Apple hands out AASP and ACR stamps to every Tom, Dick and Harriet willing to pay the fee, while Apple obviously does not care about their business practice. Stamps like AASP and ACR are meaningless, and so is the Apple brand which doesn't enforce its policies.

 

[chown33]

I can, but to prove my logic board was never replaced, I need proof, which is hard to get without Apple being cooperative. ...

Does the "About This Mac" window show your Mac's serial number?
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1529

I've had a few logic boards replaced over the years, and the replacement always had a different serial number (or none at all).

 

[eezacque]

Does the "About This Mac" window show your Mac's serial number?
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1529

I've had a few logic boards replaced over the years, and the replacement always had a different serial number (or none at all).

Yes, the firmware serial number corresponds to the original serial number. According to my information, after a logic board swap, an aasp resets the serial number of the new board to the original, to avoid issues with software licenses, time machine, etc...

 

[aristobrat]

There are times (based on posts I've read here over the years) where they forget to put the new serial number on the board.

If your Mac was in that condition, it seems like it'd make it a little easier to figure out if they replaced the board or not.

 

[eezacque]

There are times (based on posts I've read here over the years) where they forget to put the new serial number on the board.

If your Mac was in that condition, it seems like it'd make it a little easier to figure out if they replaced the board or not.

Well, nobody left a note with "I forgot to reset the serial number (sorry)"

 

[Mr Rabbit]

It is really worrying that Apple hands out AASP and ACR stamps to every Tom, Dick and Harriet willing to pay the fee, while Apple obviously does not care about their business practice. Stamps like AASP and ACR are meaningless, and so is the Apple brand which doesn't enforce its policies.

If only it was that easy. I don't have any experience with non-US AASPs but I've worked for both Apple and multiple AASPs and have friends at both throughout the US. Within the US I can assure that Apple is very involved with what goes on at their AASPs. Non-warranty repairs aren't heavily controlled but anything under warranty or using parts ordered from Apple is subject to audits throughout the year, which I can assure you do occur.

The only way to know for sure if the board was replaced would be to check the serial number of the logic board (not the Mac serial number that shows in "About this Mac", the actual component serial number) against the number that was there when it was taken in. Realistically there isn't any reason for a consumer to record that before a repair, the only people even concerned with that are Apple and the technician handling the repair, as it has to be entered as the KGB and KBB (Known good, bad, board) numbers for inventory tracking and quality assurance.

An example of the logic board serial number, courtesy of iFixit's 15" MacBook Pro logic board replacement guide:

The serial number is next to the bar code, above the RAM dimms.

Out of curiosity, is there a problem with the Mac or are you just concerned that they possibly charged you for a part that wasn't actually replaced?

 

[eezacque]

If only it was that easy. I don't have any experience with non-US AASPs but I've worked for both Apple and multiple AASPs and have friends at both throughout the US. Within the US I can assure that Apple is very involved with what goes on at their AASPs. Non-warranty repairs aren't heavily controlled but anything under warranty or using parts ordered from Apple is subject to audits throughout the year, which I can assure you do occur.

I haven't met the slightest interest from Apple concerning my issues with the ACR and the AASP.

Realistically there isn't any reason for a consumer to record that before a repair, the only people even concerned with that are Apple and the technician handling the repair, as it has to be entered as the KGB and KBB (Known good, bad, board) numbers for inventory tracking and quality assurance.

I did ask Apple for the serial number, and it was refused to me. As I cannot trust the technician, I am stuck.

Out of curiosity, is there a problem with the Mac or are you just concerned that they possibly charged you for a part that wasn't actually replaced?

The new logic board is dead; otherwise, no problem at all...

 

[Mr Rabbit]

The new logic board is dead; otherwise, no problem at all...

No need to be a smartass. I asked for information that you hadn't yet provided in this thread.

Keep working with Apple, you'll get a resolution of some sort. Be firm but not a smartass, don't take no for an answer. Apple will not hang up on you unless you act childish.

 

[eezacque]

No need to be a smartass. I asked for information that you hadn't yet provided in this thread.

Keep working with Apple, you'll get a resolution of some sort. Be firm but not a smartass, don't take no for an answer. Apple will not hang up on you unless you act childish.

They just did. Margaret Lordan, Executive Relations EMEIA, answered my overview of all fruitless correspondence I have had with Apple so far, with a cold "Thank you for your email and feedback provided. "

 

[jeremysteele]

It sounds like it was working enough to check the serial number from about this mac:

Yes, the firmware serial number corresponds to the original serial number. According to my information, after a logic board swap, an aasp resets the serial number of the new board to the original, to avoid issues with software licenses, time machine, etc...

And now you say it is dead?

The new logic board is dead; otherwise, no problem at all...

So....what exactly is happening? Random reboots? Dead port? Or was it working and then died?

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If you call Apple and tell them you don't think it was fixed and ramble on like you are here - its no surprise they aren't being helpful. They need to know the issue to be able to fix it.

Suggestion: write down your description of the issue on a piece of paper, leave it for 2 hours, then reread it and strike out any parts that aren't crucial to the issue. Also - you may think you are "being nice" on the phone - but you may be coming across as aggressive. Writing it down will make you "sound nicer"

Managers have very limited time to deal with customers - the quicker you can express the issue the happier they will be and the more willing they will be to help.

If I were an Apple support manager the last thing I would do is want to help a customer who is rambling on about how the evil 3rd party tech may or may not have replaced a board and how apple support isn't helping and so on and so forth. To me that sounds like a customer who doesn't want to be helped.

I've worked in support and we regularly cut off people who acted like that. It wasn't worth our time.

I'd rather deal with a thousand "I dropped my phone in the toilet" sob stories over someone being aggressive - any day.

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This is probably going to end with shattered teeth for the first Apple employee I can get my hands on.

Posting violent messages directed at Apple employees is completely out of line.

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As far as the tim cook email address goes - it is doubtful he personally reads that many of them. Guys like that hire secretaries to handle those tasks (who will push interesting emails up to the big man himself).

 

[eezacque]

It sounds like it was working enough to check the serial number from about this mac:

And now you say it is dead?

So....what exactly is happening? Random reboots? Dead port? Or was it working and then died?

I expected Time Machine and other software to have problems with a logic board replacement, so I did check the serial number from "About this Mac". One and a half years later it is dead, as in "nothing happens when I hit the power button"

If you call Apple and tell them you don't think it was fixed and ramble on like you are here - its no surprise they aren't being helpful. They need to know the issue to be able to fix it.

Suggestion: write down your description of the issue on a piece of paper, leave it for 2 hours, then reread it and strike out any parts that aren't crucial to the issue. Also - you may think you are "being nice" on the phone - but you may be coming across as aggressive. Writing it down will make you "sound nicer"

Let me see, I wrote about it to Apple Benelux, in Amsterdam, Apple Europe, in Cork, Apple Universe in Cupertino, exchanged several emails with Apple Europe, had several chat sessions and phone calls with Apple Support. Written letters are ignored, emails and phone calls are standard, without anyone refering to specifics or anyone admitting something went wrong, and some people tell me to write a letter. I did ask for a report on the repair history of the hardware, which was refused. Both ACR and AASP don't respond to emails or phone calls.

Managers have very limited time to deal with customers - the quicker you can express the issue the happier they will be and the more willing they will be to help.

I have yet to find a single Apple manager to respond to my complaint.

I've worked in support and we regularly cut off people who acted like that. It wasn't worth our time.

Been there, done that, and I was told by a manager that support is about customers, and not about 'my time'.

Posting violent messages directed at Apple employees is completely out of line.

I am afraid Apple needs to learn about damage control. Small irritations will grow, and run out of hand real fast if you don't address them properly. As another example, there are lots of people getting pretty pissed about the radeongate: the longer Apple waits to acknowledge the problem, the more it will damage their reputation.

I have wasted enough of my time with Apple, I will target the ACR to get some of my money back, and have a windows machine configured. Apple lost a 25-year long customer, and don't think they care.