software/web developers take on M2 MBA?

[waziazi]

Thoughts? Main apps used are IDEs. VSCode. Electron web-apps running “natively” and docker. Maybe VM software like parallels/VMware.

Files are mostly small. Text files full of code. I rarely use more than 60gb.

I have my eyes on the 8/8C, 16g, 256g

 

[tmoerel]

Thoughts? Main apps used are IDEs. VSCode. Electron web-apps running “natively” and docker. Maybe VM software like parallels/VMware.

Files are mostly small. Text files full of code. I rarely use more than 60gb.

I have my eyes on the 8/8C, 16g, 256g

If you do light web dev than this should be doable. Although I always recommend to go bigger on storage. 512Gb is OK, 1Tb better. 256Gb is too little for sure. Just the OS and some apps will fill 80% of it.

 

[yitwail]

If you do light web dev than this should be doable. Although I always recommend to go bigger on storage. 512Gb is OK, 1Tb better. 256Gb is too little for sure. Just the OS and some apps will fill 80% of it.

It's also well known that the 256GB SSD is about half the speed of the 512GB.

 

[Cide]

This machine will last you 15 Years, But the Local Storage will fill up beyond contention before that point, go with as much as possible, 1TB Minimum, 2TB if you have the money.

 

[Lihp8270]

As a software dev for me the M2 and even the M1 has enough performance.

But lack of multiple monitor support makes them unsuitable for my use.

Consider how many displays you use before purchasing.

 

[evertjr]

with 16gb ram it should work fantastically well. If you can afford 512gb ssd as well it would be better, 256gb is really not enough for software development unless you keep an external drive plugged all the time (like I do)

 

[bobcomer]

Thoughts? Main apps used are IDEs. VSCode. Electron web-apps running “natively” and docker. Maybe VM software like parallels/VMware.

Files are mostly small. Text files full of code. I rarely use more than 60gb.

I have my eyes on the 8/8C, 16g, 256g

That's a pretty stout load, docker and VM's -- do yourself a favor and get something with a fan.

 

[senttoschool]

I used an 8GB/256GB M1 Air for development for a whole year. It was great except that I definitely needed more RAM. So with 16GB, I'm sure it's completely adequate for your needs for a few years.

 

[jdb8167]

Docker is the wildcard here. If your Docker images are relatively lightweight and run for limited durations there won’t be any issue. Everything else is fine. For Docker though I would get the 24 GB upgrade. If Docker runs long duration tasks, you’ll throttle. Not sure how much that matters.

I’m using a M1 MBA with 16 GB doing development in ReactJS. So I have npm running the reactjs transpiler running in the background and a web server running in Docker for testing. I’m thinking of putting the React, nodejs and npm environment into Docker so I probably need more RAM but the performance has been beyond acceptable.

 

[senttoschool]

Docker is the wildcard here. If your Docker images are relatively lightweight and run for limited durations there won’t be any issue. Everything else is fine. For Docker though I would get the 24 GB upgrade. If Docker runs long duration tasks, you’ll throttle. Not sure how much that matters.

I’m using a M1 MBA with 16 GB doing development in ReactJS. So I have npm running the reactjs transpiler running in the background and a web server running in Docker for testing. I’m thinking of putting the React, nodejs and npm environment into Docker so I probably need more RAM but the performance has been beyond acceptable.

I’ve done worse with 8GB of ram. 16gb is more than enough for most web development.

 

[nudoru]

Think of your needs in a few years, not just your needs now. I'm a front-end dev and 16ram 512gb drive would be plenty. If you want to go up from that, get 1tb for some games, media, and Docker. Those containers can be HUGE - I've easily had 100gb of them taking up space. The m2 chip or cooling won't be your limiting factor.

 

[mi7chy]

This machine will last you 15 Years, But the Local Storage will fill up beyond contention before that point, go with as much as possible, 1TB Minimum, 2TB if you have the money.

How do you figure 15 years? Monterey only supports early 2015 and newer MBA so that's 7 years. Gets worse with Ventura that only supports 2018 and newer MBA so only 4 years.

 

[LinkRS]

@starkana This might be an unpopular opinion, but it is my opinion. The MacBook Air (M2 or otherwise) is Apple's take on a low cost "netbook" computer. This is the entry point to the macOS ecosystem. As long as your expectations are in-check, you can do a lot with an M2 MBA. An issue that the current iteration of the base M2 MBA is catching flack for, is virtual memory situations. With the SSD slower in the base model, some disk I/O heavy situations are running slower than on the original M1 MBA. The SSD I/O was so fast in the M1 MBA, that when programs swapped to disk, many users didn't notice it. Many claims were made about how on an M1, 8 GB was equivalent to 16 GB on an Intel system. This is ridiculous, and you should discount this nonsense.

With that said, if you are going to be living in lightweight editors such as VS Code (which is NOT an IDE) or Electron (probably also not an IDE), the MBA is a great fit. Manipulating text files and even graphic files are easy for the Apple Silicon systems to handle, and they work really well for this. Throw in a real IDE such as XCode or Visual Studio, and you can run into issues with the base model (due to RAM), but with the 16 GBs you spec'ed out, should still be fine. Where you will run into potential issues, is with running VMs or Docker containers. You have to remember that there are 2 kinds of Docker containers you can run on an MBA, native ARM Docker containers (your best option) or x64 under Rosetta. Running multiple Docker containers and/or actually trying to run a virtualization software (Parallels or the tech preview of Fusion), RAM and disk space come into play. If you plan on running either of those frequently, you should really consider biting the bullet and either upgrading to the full 24 GBs allowed with 512 GB SSD, or even considering a MBP with 24 GBs or more of RAM (depending on MBP chosen). The MBA may be able to handle your load, but you will be putting a heavier load on the system than it is intended for.

Personally, for development purposes, I went all-out. Got a 16" MBP with the M1 Max, 32 GBs of RAM and 1 TB SSD.

Good luck!

Rich S.

 

[jdb8167]

if you are going to be living in lightweight editors such as VS Code (which is NOT an IDE)

VS Code is definitely an IDE. And it is an electron app so it isn't lightweight.

Xcode is heavier but works fine on my M1 MBA. I've been mostly avoiding Docker but from what I've read, it has gotten quite a bit better recently. Everything I run is virtualized Linux though.

 

[LinkRS]

VS Code is definitely an IDE. And it is an electron app so it isn't lightweight.

Xcode is heavier but works fine on my M1 MBA. I've been mostly avoiding Docker but from what I've read, it has gotten quite a bit better recently. Everything I run is virtualized Linux though.

I respectively disagree, VS Code is a Code editor (text editor). You cannot write, test, compile, and debug code without adding plugins or other external tools. XCode is a fully-integrated IDE, and works out-of-the-box, and is a much "heavier" program than VS Code, in storage, CPU, and Memory cost. VS Code is an Electron app, but Electron is just a way to run a PWA outside of a browser, and there are many Electron apps (see here: https://www.electronjs.org/apps)

Many, many people call VS Code an IDE, and add many extension and live "all-day" in it. Using it, as if it were a full-blown IDE. I use VS Code myself, just not by itself. I frequently use the macOS XCode command-line compiler, and debug tools. Think about it this way, VS Code is incredibly popular (and it should be), but if it were an IDE, why does Microsoft keep Visual Studio around? Sure, for Windows as many people are very familiar with it, but why spend resources on developing a Mac version? Thanks for the discussion!

 

[senttoschool]

How do you figure 15 years? Monterey only supports early 2015 and newer MBA so that's 7 years. Gets worse with Ventura that only supports 2018 and newer MBA so only 4 years.

You can still use your computer without the latest OS.

In addition, Intel Macbook Airs are weak so it’s not surprising that they are ending support for them as more and more macOS features are designed for Apple Silicon.

 

[ADGrant]

Thoughts? Main apps used are IDEs. VSCode. Electron web-apps running “natively” and docker. Maybe VM software like parallels/VMware.

Files are mostly small. Text files full of code. I rarely use more than 60gb.

I have my eyes on the 8/8C, 16g, 256g

Why not just spend a little more and get the base 14" MBP. It has a proper cooling system and a much nicer screen. It can also support more than one external monitor.

 

[alien3dx]

Thoughts? Main apps used are IDEs. VSCode. Electron web-apps running “natively” and docker. Maybe VM software like parallels/VMware.

Files are mostly small. Text files full of code. I rarely use more than 60gb.

I have my eyes on the 8/8C, 16g, 256g

Docker - more space
Nodejs/Electron apps - more ram possible . Normal php/asp.net can survive 8 GB RAM. Xcode/Android not storyboard still survive 8 GB ram.

 

[alien3dx]

I respectively disagree, VS Code is a Code editor (text editor). You cannot write, test, compile, and debug code without adding plugins or other external tools. XCode is a fully-integrated IDE, and works out-of-the-box, and is a much "heavier" program than VS Code, in storage, CPU, and Memory cost. VS Code is an Electron app, but Electron is just a way to run a PWA outside of a browser, and there are many Electron apps (see here: https://www.electronjs.org/apps)

Many, many people call VS Code an IDE, and add many extension and live "all-day" in it. Using it, as if it were a full-blown IDE. I use VS Code myself, just not by itself. I frequently use the macOS XCode command-line compiler, and debug tools. Think about it this way, VS Code is incredibly popular (and it should be), but if it were an IDE, why does Microsoft keep Visual Studio around? Sure, for Windows as many people are very familiar with it, but why spend resources on developing a Mac version? Thanks for the discussion!

software only need two thing

1. Planning
2. Get the best you can get em. No need to argue . IDE or not doesn't matter. The real matter don't crash , no bad code .

 

[jdb8167]

I respectively disagree, VS Code is a Code editor (text editor). You cannot write, test, compile, and debug code without adding plugins or other external tools. XCode is a fully-integrated IDE, and works out-of-the-box, and is a much "heavier" program than VS Code, in storage, CPU, and Memory cost. VS Code is an Electron app, but Electron is just a way to run a PWA outside of a browser, and there are many Electron apps (see here: https://www.electronjs.org/apps)

Many, many people call VS Code an IDE, and add many extension and live "all-day" in it. Using it, as if it were a full-blown IDE. I use VS Code myself, just not by itself. I frequently use the macOS XCode command-line compiler, and debug tools. Think about it this way, VS Code is incredibly popular (and it should be), but if it were an IDE, why does Microsoft keep Visual Studio around? Sure, for Windows as many people are very familiar with it, but why spend resources on developing a Mac version? Thanks for the discussion!

If it is an IDE when you add in extensions then for most developers, it is an IDE since just about everyone uses extensions to target their development needs. Otherwise you would just use BBEdit. I agree that Xcode and Visual Studio are out of the box IDEs and target a somewhat different audience.

 

[LinkRS]

If it is an IDE when you add in extensions then for most developers, it is an IDE since just about everyone uses extensions to target their development needs. Otherwise you would just use BBEdit. I agree that Xcode and Visual Studio are out of the box IDEs and target a somewhat different audience.

I completely agree with that sentiment, as I mentioned many, many people use VS Code, and call it an IDE. Technically it is not, but it is semantics from most folks perspective. VS Code is like Notepad+, but I don't know anyone who calls the latter an IDE LOL. Thanks again!

 

[waziazi]

Show end up getting the MacBook Air M2 with 16 gigs of RAM and 256 GB ssd and running darker and having chrome and Safari open with 20 tabs each and firing up bunch of containers as well as opening up every single app I have installed I never exceeded 16 gigs of RAM and never swapped.

benchmarks really do not speak for real world use

 

[alien3dx]

I completely agree with that sentiment, as I mentioned many, many people use VS Code, and call it an IDE. Technically it is not, but it is semantics from most folks perspective. VS Code is like Notepad+, but I don't know anyone who calls the latter an IDE LOL. Thanks again!

We consider notepad ++ and vscode light ide and real ide hehe crash crash xcode the famous no 1 crash if storyboard

 

[waziazi]

Xcode is ****in insane! 32gb once installed. there is this weirdoes 5gb cache that lurks once installed. totally useless and heavy IDE unless you develop iOS/macOS native software. other than that more and more apps are becoming 'web apps' via electron. much lighter indeed.

seriously the criticism about the ssd is just noise. most of us just deal with small files and random access. you will be fine. if you do heavy professional work just buy a PC and it will be more powerful and cheaper.

for me the most important aspect was that its ultra portable, no heat, no noise, and feel rock solid. it checks all the boxes. because most of my work is code. writing. in a editor. pretty much. and having the portability to crank out code whoever I am, like in bed or on the couch or outside while soaking in the sun... definitely made me more productive vs being in one room on one desktop...

also 16gb is absolutely ideal. never swapped. ever. and I run bunch of docker containers...

I watched a review of the MBP 16" 64gb from a software developer, who honestly looked like an idiot who worked out of his van.... this moron recommended maxing out.. complaining that 64gb might not be enough... this is a moron who doesn't know how to survive without a credit card

 

[jdb8167]

also 16gb is absolutely ideal. never swapped. ever. and I run bunch of docker containers...

I watched a review of the MBP 16" 64gb from a software developer, who honestly looked like an idiot who worked out of his van.... this moron recommended maxing out.. complaining that 64gb might not be enough... this is a moron who doesn't know how to survive without a credit card

Odd that you never swap with 16 GB. Right now I have minimum swap, a few 100 MB, but almost a GB of compressed memory on an M1 Air with 16 GB. And I've just begun my day. Unless you are compiling something like Chrome all day, I agree that almost no developer needs 64 GB but I've seen on Hacker News a lot of developers complaining that they do. It seems to be a general meme, I need the maximum memory possible for development. I'm pretty sure that 24 GB will allow me to do whatever I need for the near future without any worry about running out of RAM. I can't imagine needing more than 32 GB.