Currently, we have access to the source and tools to make XNU-Darwin boot on X86 generic hardware which gives rise to the hackintosh community through knowledge transfer. The same thing is possible on ARM (some people already have Darwin running on generic ARM hardware). I speculate Apple will take this opportunity to completely re work the boot chain to some custom solution like in iOS, shutting out all 3rd party hardware. As in no work around for SIP and signed KEXT, similar to secure boot. Then they’ll follow up by taking forever to release the XNU source (as in until the next major version). This solves a couple problems for them, no more clones, and no more users upgrading their own hardware.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Speculation Apple will lock down MacOS on ARM
- Thread starter MichaelDT
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I would personally consider that a given.
The switch to Arm for the mac is promising, but I have no illusions that Apple won’t use it as an opportunity to lock down the mac similar to iOS devices, e.g. restrict the mac to the App Store as well.
Last edited:
You're probably right about this, but when seeing the WWDC videos on this (), it is probably also because the hardware is quite different from generic ARM hardware. About booting, KEXTs, and so on, check out the in the video at about 18 mins, where you can choose between "full security mode" (iPhone-like security, default mode allowing external disk boot), "reduces security" allows you to run any version of macOS including ones not longer signed by Apple, and "notarized" 3rd-party kernel extensions. You can also use "configurable security" using csrutil, and configure secure boot, root volume authentication and system integrity protection. Like for developers and tinkerers.
If this happens, do you speculate that current intel Macs also will not be able to download apps from outside the appstore?
If that happens I’ll happily switch to PC.
I’m with you in that I suspect ARM Macs won’t be able to boot an unsigned OS, but I’d be surprised if they restrict installing apps if not from the App Store.
I think its clear that Apple will make macOS open to 3rd party apps, because otherwise why put so much work into it. It's in the name "macOS", it still can do mac stuff but using ARM instead of intel.
If they do resrict how does it make it different to an ipad. No, the mac will stay as it is now as Steve pointed out.
Anyway time will tell, come end of year we will see.
[automerge]1593063762[/automerge]
I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt on this until someone proves that they've had a change of mind.
Firstly, laptops and desktops are a tiny percentage of their overall sales/revenue, and I suspect this is more consolidation on the back end in terms of internal development than anything else. Having the ability to seamlessly develop apps for multiple devices reduces their maintenance overhead a lot.
Don't forget that Apple has also set out to be not just the premier mobile platform, but also the preferred development platform. And they've succeeded. No one I know who does software work is walking around with anything but a Macbook. They're already the best cross-platform development machines, so I find it highly unlikely that Apple would take all that capability away to.... what... sell 5 dollar email apps to a handful of laptop users? Doesn't make sense.
There's a lot more money in letting those laptop users make phone apps and taking a cut of their app revenue. Apple hasn't shown me anything to suggest they intend to abandon that model.
Firstly, laptops and desktops are a tiny percentage of their overall sales/revenue, and I suspect this is more consolidation on the back end in terms of internal development than anything else. Having the ability to seamlessly develop apps for multiple devices reduces their maintenance overhead a lot.
Don't forget that Apple has also set out to be not just the premier mobile platform, but also the preferred development platform. And they've succeeded. No one I know who does software work is walking around with anything but a Macbook. They're already the best cross-platform development machines, so I find it highly unlikely that Apple would take all that capability away to.... what... sell 5 dollar email apps to a handful of laptop users? Doesn't make sense.
There's a lot more money in letting those laptop users make phone apps and taking a cut of their app revenue. Apple hasn't shown me anything to suggest they intend to abandon that model.
I think my speculation is more like they are going to share so much code with iOS now that if they keep it open, someone will figure out how to boot iOS on a snap dragon. When that happens, bean counters will lock it down...
Developer ports iOS core to non-Apple hardware in on-going open source project - 9to5Mac
Software developer Winocm has managed to port the core elements of Apple’s iOS operating system to non-Apple devices. This core...
9to5mac.com
That’s just the XNU as I mentioned in first post you can install that on any generic hardware, they’re supposedly going to expose the (secure) boot chain to other OS. Which you know... is a lot more surface area to exploit. If instructions on how to bootstrap Linux on Apple hardware are released, then an enterprising person could work backwards to how iOS/MacOS bootstrap onto secure Apple hardware. Then in said process has a switch for unsigned boot in macOS, which I can drag and drop into an iOS install. Hex edit a few parameters, and teach a boot loader to follow or spoof apples spec And security -> knockoff iPhones on street corners in China. Which is why they won’t let it happen as soon as the right person in management puts that together.... I speculate.Developer ports iOS core to non-Apple hardware in on-going open source project - 9to5Mac
Software developer Winocm has managed to port the core elements of Apple’s iOS operating system to non-Apple devices. This core...
That's encouraging re: alternate OSs, but it's odd, because this would very much indicate the opposite: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/06/25/apple-silicon-macs-new-startup-recovery-options/
See in particular the second screenshot: https://images.macrumors.com/t/_vG0...apple-silicon-mac-startup-security-screen.jpg The most permissive option available is:
There isn't a "no security" setting—no way to boot an unsigned operating system. And hell will freeze over before Apple starts signing Linux builds. (Admittedly, hell already froze over once, but I still don't think it's happening.)
(What I really want to know is whether I can still disable System Integrity Protection. I don't personally need Linux, but if I can't disable SIP I'm never buying an ARM Mac.)
Last edited:
Yes you can and compared to intel macs you will be able to run two different installs of macOS, one as a main daily driver with full secure boot and sip enabled and one which have everything disabled (as Apple put it: for researchers and kext developers etc)
Not directy related, but one could estimate based on their iPad Pro Pro right now as that itself using the smae chip that will be ging into new Apple silicon Mac's. In fact if you watch the keynote. Craig even showed a demo of his 'test IMac" running MacOS Big Sir, has an A12x Bionic.. on Apple silicon.
So comparing iOS currently,, i would reckon the same experiences could, in theory, be on Mac
Just imagine ... 12+ hour battery life
So comparing iOS currently,, i would reckon the same experiences could, in theory, be on Mac
Just imagine ... 12+ hour battery life