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Spotify, Growth Hackers, and the Rise of 1st Party Apps

BWhaler

BWhaler

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jan 8, 2003
3,789
6,249
I am a happy Spotify user, was interested in Apple Music—streaming all my music in the cloud + Apple's catalog = win—until I saw how deeply flawed the execution was.

But I've noticed lately that Spotify, Evernote, etc., are frequently interrupting my workflow with badges, notifications, interstitial screens, pop-ups, etc., to try to entice me to upgrade. I understand why, but this type of interruption marketing is hostile to their users and builds customer resentment, not upgrades.

These breaks in my workflow make me resent the products and the growth hackers behind them. Most vile is Spotify and its obnoxious badge notification on the dock which cannot be turned off—and which always points to a list of nonsense, e.g. "Some random playlist has added 3 tracks last night."

I am more interested in first party apps nowadays since they never push ads and promotions in my face. I just hope Apple can get better, and fast, at making great innovative cloud apps.
 
The upgrade ads aren't a result of Spotify being third party, it's a result of them having a free, ad-supported tier. You're choosing not to pay for premium service, and so you're paying by being advertised to.

As for notifications, can't you turn those off through the notifications settings in your phone? If you're talking about it happening on the Mac, I haven't experienced that, but if you know it leads to nonsense, just ignore it.
 
I can assure you that if you start paying for Spotify Unlimited (half the price of Apple Music), there will be no ads, banners, pop-ups and anything else. The only thing you might get is "playing now" notifications, which can be switched off.
 
Spotify has two paid tiers. Unlimited gives you unlimited streaming on desktop and shuffle streaming on a mobile device (which is super irritating) and costs, in the Netherlands at least, €4.99. No offline mode. Premium gives you unlimited streaming, offline downloads and proper mobile app, plus a family plan (first member pays €9.99, the following members pay €4.99). I'm perfectly happy with Unlimited, if I want something on my phone I buy it, if I don't, I can stream it to my heart's content.

Edit: Since AM won't sync my library to iCloud (which is probably a good thing) due to library having 31k songs, and there is no Android app, I get the same functionality from Apple Music at €9.99 (from Sept 30 onwards) and from Spotify at €4.99. Except Spotify's Discover Weekly is FAR better than Apple's For You.
 
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Today Spotify changed the terms and conditions of use according to a CNN article. You now pretty much agree to allow Spotify unlimited access to all your data from locations , GPS, contacts, third party sharing, etc, with no way to stop the data collection other then stop using the service. Now I know how Spotify is going to compete on the financial side with Apple, sell the Customers data. Not liking all this intrusion of my private data.
 
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Oh, I didn't know that differed per location! Now I'm wondering why I have Unlimited, I'd suppose they'd throw UK and Europe into one bag.

I looked up Spotify Unlimited and found this: https://community.spotify.com/t5/Ne...ion/Subscription-Comparison-Chart/td-p/666916

"2014-11-06: Spotify Unlimited is being phased out, as a result you may not be able to (re)subscribe to Spotify Unlimited."

So I may not be enjoying the 4.99 price much longer.

I read that article about privacy and immediately removed Spotify from my phone, checked privacy settings in desktop app (all clear), I already forbid it from connecting to my Facebook earlier. I've read a quite good debunk of this article in the comments on The Verge (?), where someone explained that the requests Spotify makes on Android make sense because of new functionalities, but I'm not taking chances.

Bad move, Spotify. Bad move.
 
Wreckus said:
speaking of spotify...if you are a spotify free user, may want to read this. Spotify has a new privacy policy.

http://9to5mac.com/2015/08/21/spotify-privacy-policy-apology/
Click to expand...
This is a weird headline. I see no apology, just an explanation.

This is a tempest in a teapot. The privacy policy clearly says "With your permission, we may collect information". And on iOS you don't have to rely on their word, since you can simply block the app from accessing location information, contacts, photos etc. in the privacy settings.
 
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Rigby said:
This is a weird headline. I see no apology, just an explanation.

This is a tempest in a teapot. The privacy policy clearly says "With your permission, we may collect information". And on iOS you don't have to rely on their word, since you can simply block the app from accessing location information, contacts, photos etc. in the privacy settings.
Click to expand...

I does say permission is required. However I'm sure they will find a way to inhibit some future feature b/c you denied access. Its what they do.
 
whsbuss said:
I does say permission is required. However I'm sure they will find a way to inhibit some future feature b/c you denied access. Its what they do.
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Really? I don't remember Spotify ever using underhanded tactics.

Of course if specific information is needed for a feature (let's say, for example, location information to enable automatic music selection based on whether you're at home or out and about), then it won't work if you withhold that information from the app.
 
Rigby said:
Really? I don't remember Spotify ever using underhanded tactics.

Of course if specific information is needed for a feature (let's say, for example, location information to enable automatic music selection based on whether you're at home or out and about), then it won't work if you withhold that information from the app.
Click to expand...

Yes that's correct. It will be a user's decision to allow. I like that.
 
Rigby said:
This is a weird headline. I see no apology, just an explanation.

This is a tempest in a teapot. The privacy policy clearly says "With your permission, we may collect information". And on iOS you don't have to rely on their word, since you can simply block the app from accessing location information, contacts, photos etc. in the privacy settings.
Click to expand...

Spotify is a music streaming app, period. It's not a social platform or whatever they are willing it to be. For it to work, they need a connection from my device, and a song selection, nothing more. There's no reason whatsoever for it to look at my photos, contacts, GPS location and anything else, with or without my permission.

We're all so excited like four year olds over some new toy that we are forgetting the fact that every cloud service gets hacked, and when spotify gets hit, there go your private photos, contacts and everything else you let spotify suck from your devices.
 
Careful, or Apple will find out Apple Music is supposed to be a music streaming app, and then we will lose all the extremely useful functions like Connect, iCloud etc. ;)
 
pingssgp said:
Spotify is a music streaming app, period. It's not a social platform or whatever they are willing it to be.
Click to expand...
I disagree. It absolutely has social components (like sharing playlists).
For it to work, they need a connection from my device, and a song selection, nothing more.
Click to expand...
And it doesn't take anything more unless you give your permission.
There's no reason whatsoever for it to look at my photos, contacts, GPS location and anything else, with or without my permission.
Click to expand...
Daniel Ek gives a few reasons in the official response:

https://news.spotify.com/us/2015/08/21/sorry-2/

For example, accessing photos is used to update your profile image if you choose to do so. It doesn't just "suck all your photos from your device".
 
Rigby said:
I disagree. It absolutely has social components (like sharing playlists).
And it doesn't take anything more unless you give your permission.
Daniel Ek gives a few reasons in the official response:

https://news.spotify.com/us/2015/08/21/sorry-2/

For example, accessing photos is used to update your profile image if you choose to do so. It doesn't just "suck all your photos from your device".
Click to expand...
I can think for myself. Finding artists, songs, videos is not a very complex task. I do not need Spotify or anyone else to access my personal data to do something as trivial as recommending a song, artist, or playlist. If I select an artist for a playlist then nice to get a few suggestions, that is the extent of their data gathering. Maybe some listeners prefer services like Spotify to think for them, I am not one of them. Access my personal data without my permission, good bye.
 
npmacuser5 said:
I can think for myself. Finding artists, songs, videos is not a very complex task. I do not need Spotify or anyone else to access my personal data to do something as trivial as recommending a song, artist, or playlist. If I select an artist for a playlist then nice to get a few suggestions, that is the extent of their data gathering. Maybe some listeners prefer services like Spotify to think for them, I am not one of them. Access my personal data without my permission, good bye.
Click to expand...
Since it doesn't access your personal data without your permission, I'm not sure what the point of your posting is.
 
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Rigby said:
Since it doesn't access your personal data without your permission, I'm not sure what the point of your posting is.
Click to expand...
From all that I read the original released terms did just that, you gave Spotify the unlimited access with no opt out or permission granted. Now that the roof came off the building, Spotify will be changing (clarifying) their terms. Because of our posts change happens. Additionally a notice to other web services that our private data is just that private. The purpose, posts get things changed for the better. This is an example of that change.
 
npmacuser5 said:
From all that I read the original released terms did just that, you gave Spotify the unlimited access with no opt out or permission granted. Now that the roof came off the building, Spotify will be changing (clarifying) their terms. Because of our posts change happens. Additionally a notice to other web services that our private data is just that private. The purpose, posts get things changed for the better. This is an example of that change.
Click to expand...
This is simply not true. The policy always had the clause that your permission is required.
 
Rigby said:
This is simply not true. The policy always had the clause that your permission is required.
Click to expand...
Do not want to be in any disrespectful, have you actually read the Spotify Privacy Document?
Link: https://www.spotify.com/us/legal/privacy-policy/#information
No where can I find "requires your approval". If you can find such a clause I will stand corrected. Legal means what is written in the terms document not what some CEO says in a tweet. As I read it, Spotify and others to be fair, own whatever they can collect. Thus my rant for the week.
 
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npmacuser5 said:
Do not want to be in any disrespectful, have you actually read the Spotify Privacy Document?
Link: https://www.spotify.com/us/legal/privacy-policy/#information
No where can I find "requires your approval". If you can find such a clause I will stand corrected. Legal means what is written in the terms document not what some CEO says in a tweet. As I read it, Spotify and others to be fair, own whatever they can collect. Thus my rant for the week.
Click to expand...
This is the old privacy policy. You will note that it doesn't say anything about accessing photos and other personal information on your device. You can find the new policy currently being rolled out, which is what all the commotion is about, here:

https://www.spotify.com/us/legal/privacy-policy/?version=1.0.0-GB

It includes this paragraph (highlighting mine):
3.3 Information Stored on Your Mobile Device

With your permission, we may collect information stored on your mobile device, such as contacts, photos, or media files. Local law may require that you seek the consent of your contacts to provide their personal information to Spotify, which may use that information for the purposes specified in this Privacy Policy.
Click to expand...

You may also want to read Daniel Eks clarification here:

https://news.spotify.com/us/2015/08/21/sorry-2/

And finally, once more, you don't even have to rely on them. You can simply block the Spotify app from accessing your information in the iOS privacy preferences.
 
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