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Strange development I cannot figure out . . .

warbler

warbler

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 22, 2023
31
6
I have an ancient MacBook Pro-- 13 inch, Mid 2012. I have updated the OS as far as it will go-- to Catalina V 10.15.7. My browsers, Safari and Brave are also out of date-- cannot be updated because they require a later OS.

Most everything seems to be working. Occasionally I experience apps that indicate I can no longer use them because they need to be updated, but most of the apps that I use and depend upon remain OK. That sets the stage.

What happened yesterday is perplexing. I discovered that both Brave and Safari are malfunctioning the same way. I am able connect with my email program and receive all of my mail, but when I click on a link, the page fails to load. Trying to connect to a Zoom call with both browsers failed for the first time I can remember.

I have connectivity. I can connect to other apps that do not use the browsers, such as my cloud storage and Standard Notes app. When I tried to perform a speed test from inside my Browsers, again, "This site can't be reached".

Isn't it strange that the browsers connect to my email program (Proton Mail), and see all of my mail, but nothing else seems to connect with either browser? No links, no bookmarks, nothing.

I performed two maintenance functions. I reset NVRAM and I reset the SMC. Neither fixed it. Are there any ideas what may be the problem, here?
 
When is the last time you wiped the machine and installed the operating system from scratch?
 
Its weird that it wouldn't load the open internet. Do you have a VPN or iCloud Relay filtering your web traffic? Users have been reporting broken web links on the Mac App Store for months on older devices. It might be that iCloud Relay is blocking older, potentially security-compromised browser traffic as a protection measure.
 
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Basic75 said:
When is the last time you wiped the machine and installed the operating system from scratch?
Click to expand...
Back in 2022 my hard drive failed. When I installed my new HDD, I installed Catalina from scratch. It's been working well until 2 days ago. Reinstalling my OS is something I would like to avoid. Is it plausible my issue would be rectified by a new install? And then after that, I'm still limping along because the tooth of time is taking it's toll with degradation of usability. Yes, my MbP is an old gal, but up until 2 days ago it did everything I needed of her. Unless I can come up with an easier fix, I don't think I will invest the time and energy into an OS reinstall. Thanks for your suggestion
 
Ctrlos said:
Its weird that it wouldn't load the open internet. Do you have a VPN or iCloud Relay filtering your web traffic? Users have been reporting broken web links on the Mac App Store for months on older devices. It might be that iCloud Relay is blocking older, potentially security-compromised browser traffic as a protection measure.
Click to expand...
I think you nailed it, Ctrlos! I just disconnected my VPN (Proton VPN), and viola, it works! I can now connect via email links and bookmarks. So this is an issue that I need to take up with Proton. Thanks for the solution and reasoning behind it!
 
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Should be noted that the version of Safari that ships with Catalina hasn’t been updated in three years.
You *will* notice more and more websites completely break on that old version as time passes, that’s just how it works.
At first, it’ll just be bits and pieces of websites, but eventually even stuff like web video viewers and certain pop-ups just… don’t work, or bring Safari to its knees.
In 2025 you should at least be on macOS Ventura 13.7.X, as that is still getting security updates to this day.
 
Lounge vibes 05 said:
Should be noted that the version of Safari that ships with Catalina hasn’t been updated in three years.
You *will* notice more and more websites completely break on that old version as time passes, that’s just how it works.
At first, it’ll just be bits and pieces of websites, but eventually even stuff like web video viewers and certain pop-ups just… don’t work, or bring Safari to its knees.
In 2025 you should at least be on macOS Ventura 13.7.X, as that is still getting security updates to this day.
Click to expand...
Yes, I am aware of the degradation of usability as time goes on. Security, not so much. As a an eternal noob who tries to invest as little time as I can in the technical end of things, there may be cracks in security. What does that mean, exactly? Pardon my ignorance but what could happen if my computer is breached because I don't have the latest security? To my knowledge no breaches have happened. I use a worthy VPN (now only on my aging Mac Pro until I resolve the issue with Proton), I have my passwords, I delete and report phishing, don't click on unsolicited links. So far, so good.

Though, I am feeling the itch to upgrade, I am researching machines that cater to AI. I recently discovered a new LLM specializing in alternative health information that will be making a debut on March 1. This LLM will be available for download to use offline, but having a NVIDIA chip will optimize my experience. For my next computer I would like to get a laptop or desktop that is versatile enough to accommodate a NVIDIA GEForce graphics card. Though I haven't researched it, I don't believe I can add or change out an NVIDIA graphics card chip to a Macbook Pro or Mac desktop. (Please correct me if I am wrong) Looks like I can get a package through NVIDIA for a competitive price. The GeForce RTX 5070 Ti was highly recommended by the creator of the AI LLM that I want to download. Care to check it out and also their line of computers? I would be very interested to know your opinions about how this equipment stands up to Macs.

www.nvidia.com

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5070 Family Graphics Cards

Enable new experiences with the power of AI.
www.nvidia.com
 
Sounds like you're doing most of the right things. But there's a limit to what good behavior alone can protect.

It's critical to understand that even the best VPN service, in and of itself, merely anonymizes your PC as the source of an internet connection. Some VPN services add security features to screen out malware and block/warn known-malicious destinations (which might be cost effective). Alternatively, you can spend on premium anti-malware apps, such as McAfee or Crowdstrike, or on hoards of grade-b players, which my departments have used successfully over the decades, despite occasional bricking. But in some cases, the anti-malware apps also demand latest OS.

Without an enterprise grade team of analysts, you pretty much have to take your chances with their trustworthiness. VPN services and Anti-Malware services can get hacked, bought and sold. It's not too big a reach to imagine such services actually becoming trojan horses for repressive totalitarian regimes.

Multi-stage malware is accumulated piece by piece, which won't trigger malware detection, until it's assembled and ready to launch. Some advanced persistent threats can even remain active despite OS reinstallation (root kits and UEFI). Of course, a primary use case for anti-malware apps is to protect us from ourselves - the click, the message, the app, the download, specifically crafted to exploit a specific hole in the OS or Browser.

The struggle is real. Fiends and scalawags are fully skilled and equipped to take you apart. It happens all the time. That said, Apple's built-in malware screening is adequate - provided it stays current and fully enabled (It can be frustrating, so some users disable features <shrug>.). Apple is not transparent about when/how they respond to emergent and zero-day threats. On the other hand, Apple is big enough to make a stink about prospective state interference.

The price for keeping secure and supported: Every 6 to 8 years Apple demands $3000 - $8000 (for me and wifey) to renew citizenship in Apple's walled garden. And our gear isn't particularly high end.

Good luck
 
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ipaqrat said:
Sounds like you're doing most of the right things. But there's a limit to what good behavior alone can protect.

It's critical to understand that even the best VPN service, in and of itself, merely anonymizes your PC as the source of an internet connection. Some VPN services add security features to screen out malware and block/warn known-malicious destinations (which might be cost effective). Alternatively, you can spend on premium anti-malware apps, such as McAfee or Crowdstrike, or on hoards of grade-b players, which my departments have used successfully over the decades, despite occasional bricking. But in some cases, the anti-malware apps also demand latest OS.

Without an enterprise grade team of analysts, you pretty much have to take your chances with their trustworthiness. VPN services and Anti-Malware services can get hacked, bought and sold. It's not too big a reach to imagine such services actually becoming trojan horses for repressive totalitarian regimes.

Multi-stage malware is accumulated piece by piece, which won't trigger malware detection, until it's assembled and ready to launch. Some advanced persistent threats can even remain active despite OS reinstallation (root kits and UEFI). Of course, a primary use case for anti-malware apps is to protect us from ourselves - the click, the message, the app, the download, specifically crafted to exploit a specific hole in the OS or Browser.

The struggle is real. Fiends and scalawags are fully skilled and equipped to take you apart. It happens all the time. That said, Apple's built-in malware screening is adequate - provided it stays current and fully enabled (It can be frustrating, so some users disable features <shrug>.). Apple is not transparent about when/how they respond to emergent and zero-day threats. On the other hand, Apple is big enough to make a stink about prospective state interference.

The price for keeping secure and supported: Every 6 to 8 years Apple demands $3000 - $8000 (for me and wifey) to renew citizenship in Apple's walled garden. And our gear isn't particularly high end.

Good luck
Click to expand...
That's quite a mine field that you lay out, ipaqrat. There must be a ne'er-do-well lurking in every crevice. This brings up a speculation. There is so much money being made keeping the fear quotient high, is it so far fetched to consider bad actors within Internet security could be creating turmoil to stoke sales? With revelations about corporate and government corruption that surface daily, this would not surprise me one bit.

Have you seen this article or heard about this issue from other sources? Published last month.

The UK Just Ordered Apple to Kill Encryption for 2 Billion People—And They Can’t Even Talk About It​

💣 What happens when a single government can dictate global privacy laws? The UK’s secret order to Apple is a wake-up call for the world.​

sayerji.substack.com

🚨 The UK Just Ordered Apple to Kill Encryption for 2 Billion People—And They Can’t Even Talk About It

💣 What happens when a single government can dictate global privacy laws? The UK’s secret order to Apple is a wake-up call for the world.
sayerji.substack.com sayerji.substack.com

Would Apple sabotage their own security to satisfy a threat from a highly profitable market. So many decisions in corporate America and the World are profit driven, with ethics often being dismissed. Thoughts?
 
warbler said:
I have an ancient MacBook Pro-- 13 inch, Mid 2012. I have updated the OS as far as it will go-- to Catalina V 10.15.7. My browsers, Safari and Brave are also out of date-- cannot be updated because they require a later OS.

Most everything seems to be working. Occasionally I experience apps that indicate I can no longer use them because they need to be updated, but most of the apps that I use and depend upon remain OK. That sets the stage.

What happened yesterday is perplexing. I discovered that both Brave and Safari are malfunctioning the same way. I am able connect with my email program and receive all of my mail, but when I click on a link, the page fails to load. Trying to connect to a Zoom call with both browsers failed for the first time I can remember.

I have connectivity. I can connect to other apps that do not use the browsers, such as my cloud storage and Standard Notes app. When I tried to perform a speed test from inside my Browsers, again, "This site can't be reached".

Isn't it strange that the browsers connect to my email program (Proton Mail), and see all of my mail, but nothing else seems to connect with either browser? No links, no bookmarks, nothing.

I performed two maintenance functions. I reset NVRAM and I reset the SMC. Neither fixed it. Are there any ideas what may be the problem, here?
Click to expand...
man, time to upgrade from that ancient machine
 
Hello @warbler Yeah the climate is like they say about paranoia - you aren't if they ARE out to get you. And they are. It's not just OPTs (opportunistic pickpockets and thugs); state actors, foreign and domestic, are doing it, too.
warbler said:
There must be a ne'er-do-well lurking in every crevice.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's wise to think about OPTs in those terms; they're not a figment of the imagination. They are legion, laying elaborate traps for the unwary - and the technically obsolete. Depending on your sociopolitical strata and status, some might target you personally (spear-phishing, perhaps whaling).
warbler said:
is it so far fetched to consider bad actors within Internet security could be creating turmoil to stoke sales?
Click to expand...
One school of thought is, "Hell yes, who wouldn't?" Another is that it's all just conspiracy claptrap. But here's the kicker: It doesn't matter, because the damage is real, and unless you become a geek open-source ninja, you have to pay for protections from the very industry that created the cool IT in the first place. We're all in the teeth of it now, so we learn to love bleeding out (i.e., pay keep MacOS and IOS updated (or Windows/Android plus additional apps)).
warbler said:
kill encryption for 2 billion people...Have you seen this article or heard about this issue from other sources?
Click to expand...
I monitor this sort of technopolitical maneuvering professionally. US, Brits, Aussies, EU, and other allied nations have been chipping away at this for years, well over a decade. Investigating real ongoing crime vs. potential exploitive disclosure. Verifiable demonstrated commitment to due process has always been the missing lynchpin; that's because warrants (even FISA and equivalents in other jurisdictions) always leak and burn policing actions.
warbler said:
Would Apple sabotage their own security to satisfy a threat from a highly profitable market. So many decisions in corporate America and the World are profit driven, with ethics often being dismissed. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Well, back-dooring the citizenry is a quintessential wet dream of all authoritarian states - and an existential question for Apple. Apple would no doubt prefer to keep existing. I personally prefer that Apple keep existing. Tim and Mark and Jeff and the gang all visited Merry Lagos to kiss the ring and tithe a million bucks to the "Inawgyuration Fund", and E-Lawn's involvement is diuretically well documented, no doubt aimed at evolving Hex-formerly-Twyt'r into the US equivalent of the CCP's WeChat. What do you do when the very fabric of society is a kleptocracy?

  1. Vegetable gardens
  2. Chicken coops with roofs
  3. multi-fuel generators
  4. solar panels
  5. vehicles pre-1975
  6. off-line collection of school books and encyclopedias
  7. personal hardware wallet for your crypto
  8. Periodic trips to Cannadia for vaxinations
  9. And keep the goddam IT updated.

That's what. I'm too tired and cranky to do more then #9.
 
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