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Quasselstripper

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Feb 7, 2016
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I am wondering if I can connect my existing 4k display directly with the Apple Studio Display.

You might think it won't work, but my 4k DELL supports display stream compression, going under the 10Gbit/s that the USB-C ports offer on the Studio Display. Sooo…from that perspective it should work? But has anyone ever tried it?

Also, I am wondering: Can I run two Apple Studio Displays on one Thunderbolt 4 Hub? Or one Studio Display + one 4k DELL Monitor?
I really want to avoid having to connect two cables to my MacBook.

Any ideas or feedback appreciated!
??‍♂️
 

Amethyst1

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Oct 28, 2015
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Can I run two Apple Studio Displays on one Thunderbolt 4 Hub? Or one Studio Display + one 4k DELL Monitor?
That should work since both displays require HBR2 link rate, and two HBR2 signals can be carried via a single Thunderbolt 3/4 port.

I am wondering if I can connect my existing 4k display directly with the Apple Studio Display.
No. The Studio Display does not have a downstream Thunderbolt port. You cannot daisy-chain another display to it.

[…] my 4k DELL supports display stream compression, going under the 10Gbit/s that the USB-C ports offer on the Studio Display.
That is irrelevant. The Studio Display’s USB-C ports do not carry a video signal.
 
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Quasselstripper

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Original poster
Feb 7, 2016
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Southern Germany
That should work since both displays require HBR2 link rate, and two HBR2 signals can be carried via a single Thunderbolt 3/4 port.


No. The Studio Display does not have a downstream Thunderbolt port. You cannot daisy-chain another display to it.


That is irrelevant. The Studio Display’s USB-C ports do not carry a video signal.
Thanks for clarifying!
 
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joevt

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Jun 21, 2012
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DELL U2723QE Display @4k 60Hz
Oh, it uses DSC to allow connecting two 4K 60Hz displays using USB-C. I wonder if the USB-C port accepts HBR3 input? It would have to if the input is only two lanes of DisplayPort and you want to connect two 4K60 displays.

The dual display support is provided by a built in MST hub but macOS doesn't support MST for multiple displays. If you had a PC, you could maybe connect the Apple Studio Display to the Dell display, then connect the Dell display to the PC. I don't know if the MST hub can support a 5K and 4K simultaneously. It would require a 4 lane DisplayPort input at least so I would maybe avoid the USB-C input unless the display has a switch to change it from two lane to 4 lane input. But in that case, you'll want USB input to come from a different USB connection (the USB-C upstream that doesn't have DisplayPort).
 

Quasselstripper

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Feb 7, 2016
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Southern Germany
Oh, it uses DSC to allow connecting two 4K 60Hz displays using USB-C. I wonder if the USB-C port accepts HBR3 input? It would have to if the input is only two lanes of DisplayPort and you want to connect two 4K60 displays.

The dual display support is provided by a built in MST hub but macOS doesn't support MST for multiple displays. If you had a PC, you could maybe connect the Apple Studio Display to the Dell display, then connect the Dell display to the PC. I don't know if the MST hub can support a 5K and 4K simultaneously. It would require a 4 lane DisplayPort input at least so I would maybe avoid the USB-C input unless the display has a switch to change it from two lane to 4 lane input. But in that case, you'll want USB input to come from a different USB connection (the USB-C upstream that doesn't have DisplayPort).
As always, USB-C and it’s implantations and possibilities seem to be quite difficult to understand ?

But with a Thunderbolt 4 dock I should be good to connect both hopefully ?
 

Amethyst1

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Oct 28, 2015
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Oh, it uses DSC to allow connecting two 4K 60Hz displays using USB-C. I wonder if the USB-C port accepts HBR3 input?
FWIW, looking at the thread on the U2723/U3223, it appears these won’t do 4K60 via four-lane DisplayPort 1.2 which is a bit of a shame for owners of older systems/GPUs.
 

joevt

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Jun 21, 2012
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FWIW, looking at the thread on the U2723/U3223, it appears these won’t do 4K60 via four-lane DisplayPort 1.2 which is a bit of a shame for owners of older systems/GPUs.
You mean via USB-C? There is a separate DisplayPort input which should have 4 lanes.
 
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Amethyst1

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Oct 28, 2015
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You mean via USB-C? There is a separate DisplayPort input which should have 4 lanes.
Here someone was unable to get 4K60 from a 2013 Mac Pro, presumably using DisplayPort (no mention of HDMI/USB-C).
 
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joevt

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Jun 21, 2012
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Here someone was unable to get 4K60 from a 2013 Mac Pro, presumably using DisplayPort (no mention of HDMI/USB-C).
This post shows 4K 60Hz 10bpc HBR2 : #275 on the U3223QE but this connection is after the MST Hub which might be converting from HBR3. Need AGDCDiagnose to know what's going on.

This post #298 says there's a switch to change USB-C input from 2 lane with USB 3 to 4 lane with USB 2.0

This post #421 explains the switch for changing the upstream USB connection so you don't need to be limited to USB 2.0 (in some situations).

If a display requires 2 lanes of HBR3, then I suppose an external DisplayPort 1.4 MST hub could be used to convert 4 lanes of HBR2 to 2 lanes of HBR3. The HP Thunderbolt Dock G2 is the only DisplayPort 1.4 MST Hub that I know that has a USB-C DisplayPort Alt Mode output in case you want a solution that includes USB 3.x. You should be able to connect it to a 2013 Mac Pro with a Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter. But you might need to put a Thunderbolt 3 device between the Thunderbolt 2 Mac and the HP Thunderbolt Dock G2 (I could not get the Apple adapter to work with the HP dock directly so I connected the HP dock to a OWC Thunderbolt 3 dock).

I did some tests:
- I connected a HP Thunderbolt Dock G2 with reduced Thunderbolt 20 Gbps connection to my Mac mini 2018 to match more closely the Mac Pro 2013. This has a 4 lane HBR2 connection to the iGPU (UHD 630).
- I connected a CalDigit SOHO to the USB-C DisplayPort Alt Mode port of the HP dock. It's a USB-C dock so it has 2 lanes of HBR3. This is analogous to the Dell's MST Hub.
I tried several 2560x1440 modes with refresh rates from 60Hz to 120Hz (CVT-RB). The max I could get working is 104Hz which has a pixel clock of 428MHz. 105Hz has a pixel clock of 432.31MHz. I think I'm running into the pixel clock limit for HBR3 x2 @10bpc which is 432MHz. macOS thinks the max pixel clock is 940MHz (maybe this corresponds to HBR3 x2 8bpc 4:2:0 or HBR3 x4 8bpc RGB which is 1080MHz - it's not taking into account the MST chain?). The problem is that the modes above 432MHz do not switch from 10bpc to 8bpc until between 572.56 and 577.31MHz (except modes at 594MHz which remain at 10bpc for some unknown reason - the 594 MHz modes don't indicate chroma sub sampling...). This switch to 8bpc corresponds to the 8bpc limit for HBR2 x4 (576MHz). The problem with that is the MST chain has a HBR3 x2 bottleneck (75% the bandwidth of HBR2 x4).

We need a OpenCore/Lilu/WhateverGreen patch to fix this incorrect bandwidth calculation or to add a method to change bpc, RGB/YCbCr, DSC bpp, etc. Of course, these tests are done using the more modern Intel GPU drivers. The AMD D500 or D700 drivers may have different behavior.

I want to add a method to my AllRez command to output DPCD for all MST hubs in a chain but it might require OpenCore/Lilu/WhateverGreen to get access to the DPCD functions of the driver because the user I2C APIs don't have a method to communicate with DisplayPort devices that are not directly connected to the GPU.
 
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HyperliteG4

macrumors regular
Jul 18, 2002
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Southern California
I came here curious about almost the same thing. I have a Studio Display on order and I'd like to make my existing BenQ PD2705Q a secondary monitor. The BenQ is 1440p and hooks up via USB-C/DP 1.4.

I have a MBP 14" M1 Pro that I'll be using with these monitors and I'd prefer to only use a single cable to the MBP as much as possible.

Currently looking at getting the CalDigit TB4 Element Hub, but wondering if there are any cheaper solutions? Could I possibly run a USB-C hub off the Apple Studio Display that will allow for DisplayPort to the BenQ? From my research, it appears I cannot do this but unsure if anyone has actually tried it.
 

joevt

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Jun 21, 2012
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Could I possibly run a USB-C hub off the Apple Studio Display that will allow for DisplayPort to the BenQ?
The Apple Studio Display only has one Thunderbolt port. The USB-C ports do not support DisplayPort Alt Mode so you cannot connect a display to them.
Your options are any Thunderbolt 4 dock with at least two downstream Thunderbolt ports, or the HP Thunderbolt Dock G2 which one one downstream Thunderbolt port and one USB-C DisplayPort Alt Mode port but I haven't tried it with an M1 Mac.
 
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Quasselstripper

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Feb 7, 2016
331
459
Southern Germany
I came here curious about almost the same thing. I have a Studio Display on order and I'd like to make my existing BenQ PD2705Q a secondary monitor. The BenQ is 1440p and hooks up via USB-C/DP 1.4.

I have a MBP 14" M1 Pro that I'll be using with these monitors and I'd prefer to only use a single cable to the MBP as much as possible.

Currently looking at getting the CalDigit TB4 Element Hub, but wondering if there are any cheaper solutions? Could I possibly run a USB-C hub off the Apple Studio Display that will allow for DisplayPort to the BenQ? From my research, it appears I cannot do this but unsure if anyone has actually tried it.
Have you been able to give this a try? My Studio Display still hasn't arrived, so I couldn't test it so far.
 
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