Surface Laptop 4

[ghanwani]

Any reason I should avoid the Surface Laptop 4? Display seems to agree with my eyes/brain and trackpad is the best I’ve experienced on any windows laptop. The 3:2 form factor was amazing. There’s a Surface 5 rumored to be around the corner but who knows for sure how long it will be?

Assuming it’s a go…

Microsoft offers a 30 day return period but shipping is not until Sept 23 for the i5/16GB/512GB. Best Buy says they can ship the same thing in 2 days but I’d only get 14 days to return. Would you guys recommend waiting for Microsoft or better to just get it from Best Buy? Price is the same at $1199.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

Unless you need a laptop I would wait. Currently the Surface Pro 8 has the better screen w/120hz so I would wait to see if the Laptop 5 adopts that.
No idea about the release dates but with all the Surface lineup on sale I would expect something within the next few months.

 

[ghanwani]

I do need one for sure. My primary content consumption device is now my phone which is not very comfortable. The MBA causes severe eye strain and headaches so I don’t use it. I just found out Apple will pay $400 for me to trade in a computer I paid $1249+tax for just a few months ago, so attempting a private sale now.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

I do need one for sure. My primary content consumption device is now my phone which is not very comfortable. The MBA cause severe eye strain and headaches so I don’t use it. I just found out Apple will pay $400 for me to trade in a computer I paid $1300 for just a few months ago, do attempting a private sell now.

Why does it cause you eye strain?

 

[ghanwani]

Why does it cause you eye strain?

Don’t know for sure but I think it’s temporal dithering. It almost looks like the edges of individual letters are expanding and contracting.

I don’t experience that with any of the windows laptops.

 

[ghanwani]

I ordered one from Best Buy. I think I'll at least take it for a test drive and decide whether it's worth holding on to.

 

[Technerd108]

I would NOT buy a Surface Laptop 4 for several reasons. A new model is likely to come out soon. The design on the Laptop 4 is very outdated. The internals are very outdated. They are expensive and no one would buy one with the internals for the cost.

Have you checked out the Lenovo Yoga 7i series latest gen. They don't have the lack of bloatware that MS Surface has but they have much better hardware. In fact, I sold my Surface Laptop 4 with Ryzen 5 and 8g ram with a 128gb ssd for around $550. I was able to find a crazy sale on Bestbuy for the 14" 7i with a 2k touch screen, intel i7 1255u, 512gb pci-4 ssd, and 16gb ddr5 ram. It has a blue finish which I really like and an all aluminum build just as nice as the Surface. It performs much faster at just about any task as my old surface. Just to give an example the Ryzen 5 had a single core geek bench 5 score of around 1000 and multi core around 5500. My Lenovo has a single core score around 1650 and multi core score around 8900. The lenovo also has a four speaker sound system which is really nice. It has better battery life too. Just keep watching sale prices on Bestbuy and you will at least be able to find it for $899.

If you are set on a Surface then it would make sense for you to wait. They have to release a new model for a few reasons. The Surface line is on sale a lot which means MS is trying to dump all the remaining stock before announcing a new model. They do this every time they are about to release a new Surface device. I have had several and know this pattern. The Surface laptop 4 has a 4000 series AMD chip which is now two generations old and 11th gen Intel which is one generation old. No one is going to pay top dollar for old specs.

Sell your MB on Swappa.com. A really good place to sell private. I use them all the time.

Good luck whatever you decide. The 4 is still a great laptop if it existed in a vacuum. The screen is great yet reflective, the speakers are great, it is fast for the hardware and the lack of bloatware is very nice. Build quality is excellent. I really like Surface devices when I can afford them and probably early to mid cycle but never near the end. Wait at least until November when the Black Friday sales happen. By then they should have announced or released a new model and if not the best sales on the 4 will be happening.

 

[ghanwani]

Thanks for all the info.

I ended up returning the Surface Laptop 4 without even opening it.

I just sold my MBA today via Craigslist. Got $700 vs $400 that Apple was offering, but still a huge hit to the $1300+ I paid barely 6 months ago. It just didn’t make sense to keep it around losing value when I was never using it because of the eye strain problems.

Trying to stay away from bloatware so I’m fixated on a Surface for now.

I’m thinking of maybe getting a Surface Laptop Go 2, but can’t get over the max SSD of 256GB which pretty much means I have to leave some files on an external drive. BTW, that’s fairly new and still on sale. But it’s cheap so maybe I can use it to get a feel for windows while enjoying a lightweight machine with a decent screen.

I’m so confused. And I’m feeling the same confusion on the iPhone side if I ever need to upgrade my SE. There’s nothing in the Apple line up that doesn’t cause headaches.

 

[Technerd108]

Thanks for all the info.

I ended up returning the Surface Laptop 4 without even opening it.

I just sold my MBA today via Craigslist. Got $700 vs $400 that Apple was offering, but still a huge hit to the $1300+ I paid barely 6 months ago. It just didn’t make sense to keep it around losing value when I was never using it because of the eye strain problems.

Trying to stay away from bloatware so I’m fixated on a Surface for now.

I’m thinking of maybe getting a Surface Laptop Go 2, but can’t get over the max SSD of 256GB which pretty much means I have to leave some files on an external drive. BTW, that’s fairly new and still on sale. But it’s cheap so maybe I can use it to get a feel for windows while enjoying a lightweight machine with a decent screen.

I’m so confused. And I’m feeling the same confusion on the iPhone side if I ever need to upgrade my SE. There’s nothing in the Apple line up that doesn’t cause headaches.

Try Swappa next time. You will get more. Craigslist is not so great in my personal experience but glad you got more for it than Apple!!

Don't get a Go. Your SE should last a while, don't worry about it.

Why not order a Lenovo 7i when it goes on sale and try it out. return it of you don't like it.

Honestly a Surface right now just has way too many compromises. The go has a plastic base I am pretty sure and uses a 10th gen Intel processor or an i3 11th gen both not very good.

If you really need a Surface then a Laptop 4 on sale for $899 is a much better deal than the GO. It has better everything and if you get an Intel version at least you are only a gen behind and not two with AMD.

Depends on your budget too. When new Surface Laptop comes out there probably won't be discounts and hopefully they will update the base storage from 128gb to 256gb but the current model starts at 128gb which is pathetic in 2022.

This would be the minimum config I would recommend,

Shopping cart - Microsoft Store

this is the Lenovo I was talking about but it goes on sale min $899 a lot,

Best Buy: Lenovo Yoga 7i 14" 2.2K Touch 2-in-1 Laptop Intel Evo Platform Core i7-1255U 16GB Memory 512GB SSD Stone Blue 82QE000KUS

Shop Lenovo Yoga 7i 14" 2.2K Touch 2-in-1 Laptop Intel Evo Platform Core i7-1255U 16GB Memory 512GB SSD Stone Blue at Best Buy. Find low everyday prices and buy online for delivery or in-store pick-up. Price Match Guarantee.

www.bestbuy.com

If you like OLED screen and Samsung then this is a great deal,

Best Buy: Samsung Galaxy Book2 360 13.3" AMOLED Touch Screen Laptop Intel 12th Gen Core i7 Evo Platform 16GB Memory 512GB SSD Graphite NP730QED-KA1US

Shop Samsung Galaxy Book2 360 13.3" AMOLED Touch Screen Laptop Intel 12th Gen Core i7 Evo Platform 16GB Memory 512GB SSD Graphite at Best Buy. Find low everyday prices and buy online for delivery or in-store pick-up. Price Match Guarantee.

www.bestbuy.com

I strongly recommend that you try the Samsung if you need a laptop now. The design is so much more modern than the Laptop 4 and has much better specs and an oled touch screen. I think the Lenovo on sale is also really nice but at the sale price the Samsung is a better deal. Just try it. If you hate it you can return but if you like it, you saved yourself a lot of money and got better specs too!

 

[Technerd108]

Also at the price you are considering for the Surface why not get an M2 MBA and just upgrade the ssd? Do you know anyone in your family who goes to school? You could try for the edu discount and you will get a $100 discount and a $150 giftcard. Seems you have an iPhone which will work great with the MBA.

MBA is so much better than Windows but that is a personal opinion. I mean the cost is so close to a Surface and at least with the MBA M2 you are getting the latest tech that should last a LOT longer than a Surface Laptop 4!!

 

[ghanwani]

Also at the price you are considering for the Surface why not get an M2 MBA and just upgrade the ssd? Do you know anyone in your family who goes to school? You could try for the edu discount and you will get a $100 discount and a $150 giftcard. Seems you have an iPhone which will work great with the MBA.

MBA is so much better than Windows but that is a personal opinion. I mean the cost is so close to a Surface and at least with the MBA M2 you are getting the latest tech that should last a LOT longer than a Surface Laptop 4!!

I would get an M2 MBA without thinking twice but I’ve tried it in the store and it too causes eye strain and pain within minutes. I think it’s because of my sensitivity to temporal dithering.

Surface Laptop Go 2 uses an 11th gen i5.

Buy Surface Laptop Go 3 (12.4" Touchscreen, i5, Windows) - Microsoft Store

Buy the Surface Laptop Go 3 from Microsoft Store. Ultrathin and lightweight, this laptop features a 12.4" touchscreen with the 12th Gen Intel® Core™ i5 processor. Free standard shipping. Free returns.

www.microsoft.com

Let’s see what I decide. Whatever it is I’m viewing it as temporary. Just mainly need something bigger than a phone for surfing the net and email, and for TurboTax.

The other big plus with the Surface is the trackpad. I don’t think any other windows machine in this price range has a comparable touchpad.

 

[Technerd108]

One last thought and I will leave you to it.

How long are you going to keep the laptop? A year, 3 years? If you have the Laptop 4 in three years it is going to feel really old and probably run pretty slow as the tech in it will be 4 or 5 years old depending on Intel or Amd, the ram is ddr4 as well.

If you get the Samsung at least you will have a modern design and latest processor with 1080p OLED screen although I believe it uses faster ddr4 but not ddr5. Also it has an sd card slot to expand your storage up to 1 tb.

If you get the M2 you will have the latest gen for year at least and one of the fastest processors around with unified ddr5 ram and if you get the 512gb fast ssd. You will get a great design and build with no bloatware and MacOS. In 3 years it will still feel pretty modern and perform well. You will have better resale value than the M1 Air.

If you don't buy a laptop every year then paying a little more is not as big a deal. I know you feel burned by the air and as far as display I don't know how any of them will affect your eyes but you can return all of them.

The Surface just seems like a bad buy right now and I would hate for you to be stuck with something that will be obsolete before its time. If there was a redesigned Laptop Surface 5 I would probably not have written any of this.

 

[Technerd108]

Hmm, I heard that the M2 Air doesn’t use temporal dithering or there is a setting that doesn’t use it?

Well good luck what’s you do!

 

[ghanwani]

Hmm, I heard that the M2 Air doesn’t use temporal dithering or there is a setting that doesn’t use it?

Well good luck what’s you do!

If you find info about that please share. The only thing I saw was it doesn’t use PWM.

 

[ghanwani]

One last thought and I will leave you to it.

How long are you going to keep the laptop? A year, 3 years? If you have the Laptop 4 in three years it is going to feel really old and probably run pretty slow as the tech in it will be 4 or 5 years old depending on Intel or Amd, the ram is ddr4 as well.

If you get the Samsung at least you will have a modern design and latest processor with 1080p OLED screen although I believe it uses faster ddr4 but not ddr5. Also it has an sd card slot to expand your storage up to 1 tb.

If you get the M2 you will have the latest gen for year at least and one of the fastest processors around with unified ddr5 ram and if you get the 512gb fast ssd. You will get a great design and build with no bloatware and MacOS. In 3 years it will still feel pretty modern and perform well. You will have better resale value than the M1 Air.

If you don't buy a laptop every year then paying a little more is not as big a deal. I know you feel burned by the air and as far as display I don't know how any of them will affect your eyes but you can return all of them.

The Surface just seems like a bad buy right now and I would hate for you to be stuck with something that will be obsolete before its time. If there was a redesigned Laptop Surface 5 I would probably not have written any of this.

I would like to keep it as long as possible but right now because the specs aren’t what I want, I’m just viewing it as a temporary solution till I find something I like better—hopefully a Mac that doesn’t use temporal dithering or a way to disable it or some other Windows machine.

How is Samsung with respect to bloatware and trackpad?

 

[Technerd108]

Apple MacBook Air M2 review - The faster 10-core GPU isn't worth it

Notebookcheck tests the new MacBook Air M2 with 16 GB of RAM, 1-TB SSD, and the faster 10-core GPU.

www.notebookcheck.net

No temporal dithering as tested by notebook check

 

[ghanwani]

Apple MacBook Air M2 review - The faster 10-core GPU isn't worth it

Notebookcheck tests the new MacBook Air M2 with 16 GB of RAM, 1-TB SSD, and the faster 10-core GPU.

www.notebookcheck.net

No temporal dithering as tested by notebook check

Interesting:

“While we were able to detect temporal dithering, for example, in the current MacBook Pro 16 with the Mini-LED panel in some particular gray color tones, this was neither the case in the old MacBook Air M1 nor in the new MacBook Air M2.”

I wonder what is causing eye strain then, which I experience on all Apple laptop displays.

 

[Technerd108]

Samsung has a decent plastic track pad. Windows gesture support works great.

Well it is a Samsung device after all so just like a Samsung Android phone there are a ton of Samsung apps that help you integrate the pc with your Galaxy phone.

There is a lot of bloatware. But you can uninstall all of it unlike on their phones.

Honestly only Surface has a default clean Windows installation.

Lenovo is better but all OEM's besides MS do it unfortunately.

 

[Technerd108]

Interesting:

“While we were able to detect temporal dithering, for example, in the current MacBook Pro 16 with the Mini-LED panel in some particular gray color tones, this was neither the case in the old MacBook Air M1 nor in the new MacBook Air M2.”

I wonder what is causing eye strain then, which I experience on all Apple laptop displays.

Maybe brightness? Maybe screen size? I don't know?

There are different display profiles that you can use on a Mac.

Maybe it was the lighting in the room you were in. Now that you know it doesn't have PWM or dithering Maybe the only way to know for sure is to test it out at your home or workplace for a few days and mess with the display settings.

If it doesn't work out you can return it? Give it a few days and maybe your eyes will adjust?

I don't know.

 

[ghanwani]

I tried the Surface Laptop Go 2 this weekend again at Best Buy. Not sure if it was the hot temperatures outside or something else, but I just wasn't feeling it. So I've given up on laptop ownership for now. It will become a critical issue at tax time again next year. Hope to find something I like before then.

 

[Technerd108]

I tried the Surface Laptop Go 2 this weekend again at Best Buy. Not sure if it was the hot temperatures outside or something else, but I just wasn't feeling it. So I've given up on laptop ownership for now. It will become a critical issue at tax time again next year. Hope to find something I like before then.

I am sure you will find something. I would shop around Black Friday as usually the deals are very good. Microsoft should possibly announce a Laptop 5 in October and by November there should be discounts.

Whatever you do good luck!

I think you made a smart choice.