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System data killing my Mac/keyboard issues

familychoice

familychoice

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Mar 5, 2015
370
277
Since updating my Mac to the latest vewrsion of Sonoma, my system data has increased to a whopping 72GB, leaving me with only 50GB left on my 500GB drive. I've tried removing files, but each time system data just increases to take up the slack.

I'm having a lot of mouse/keyboard issues (no surprises there), so trying to clear things up.

I back-up to an external SSD Time Machine drive, but notice '71.2GB Time Machine snapshot' listed in Disk Utility, which is odd as I back-up externally.

Is there any way to clerar any of this out?

Thanks.
 
My "why does he always say this?™" suggestion:

TURN OFF time machine.
TURN IT OFF... forever.

USE SOMETHING ELSE for backups.
I recommend either SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner.

Having said that, to SEE what is eating up your space, use this:
Diskwave (small and free):

Best app out there to ascertain what is using up space.
I'm thinking, tm shapshots.
 
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familychoice said:
Since updating my Mac to the latest vewrsion of Sonoma, my system data has increased to a whopping 72GB, leaving me with only 50GB left on my 500GB drive. I've tried removing files, but each time system data just increases to take up the slack.

I'm having a lot of mouse/keyboard issues (no surprises there), so trying to clear things up.

I back-up to an external SSD Time Machine drive, but notice '71.2GB Time Machine snapshot' listed in Disk Utility, which is odd as I back-up externally.

Is there any way to clerar any of this out?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

You can't delete the snapshot from Disk Utility?
 
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Fishrrman said:
My "why does he always say this?™" suggestion:

TURN OFF time machine.
TURN IT OFF... forever.

USE SOMETHING ELSE for backups.
I recommend either SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner.

Having said that, to SEE what is eating up your space, use this:
Diskwave (small and free):

Best app out there to ascertain what is using up space.
I'm thinking, tm shapshots.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I’ll do that. I think it was a dodgy external Time Machine backup that caused my initial problems (USB keyboard stopped working in some, then all ports. Keyboard swap worked, but now that’s doing the same), so I’ve already stopped using it for external backups but I haven’t changed the settings, so I’m guessing it’s still active.
 
ChrisA said:
What a useless suggestion. Unless of course you are backing up to the system drive.
Click to expand...
I’ve got a '71.2GB Time Machine snapshot' listed, so perhaps it’s doing that as well as the external back-up? I’m a bit of a noob when it comes to Time Machine as I’ve always backed-up manually. Need to check the settings…
 
familychoice said:
I’ve got a '71.2GB Time Machine snapshot' listed, so perhaps it’s doing that as well as the external back-up? I’m a bit of a noob when it comes to Time Machine as I’ve always backed-up manually. Need to check the settings…
Click to expand...
Study up on the concept of "copy on write". This is one of the core features of APFS. The effect is that you can make a copy and actually use almost zero storage. How is this? Because the copy is identical to the original so the copy and the orginal can share physical space. But of cource over time the two copies diverge as files in one of then are modified. But in this case all we need to store is the difference.

You can "snapshot" data hundreds of times and it will not require much space, so long as all the snapshots are identical and contained in the same filesystem.
 
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Fishrrman said:
My "why does he always say this?™" suggestion:

TURN OFF time machine.
TURN IT OFF... forever.

USE SOMETHING ELSE for backups.
I recommend either SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner.

Having said that, to SEE what is eating up your space, use this:
Diskwave (small and free):

Best app out there to ascertain what is using up space.
I'm thinking, tm shapshots.
Click to expand...
I second that. Initially I used TM with a TimeScape drive; many things happened all day but why and what.
Since some years I am using CarbonCopyCloner (1 licence for all machines) and now its clear
what happens (quite visual) and its quickly done too.
;JOOP!
 
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familychoice said:
Since updating my Mac to the latest version of Sonoma....
Click to expand...
<crossing fingers> ... What is your model of Mac? (Please go to "About this Mac" under the apple in the upper-left.)

Otherwise, an emphatic hell-yeah to junking Time Machine, the most shameless planned-obsolescence gimmick since Ford rediscovered rust.
 
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Minghold said:
<crossing fingers> ... What is your model of Mac? (Please go to "About this Mac" under the apple in the upper-left.)

Otherwise, an emphatic hell-yeah to junking Time Machine, the most shameless planned-obsolescence gimmick since Ford rediscovered rust.
Click to expand...
Mac Mini, M1, 16/500GB.

I've removed the link to the external SSD I was using for Time Machine (it was on manual back-ups, anyway), and cleared out a good 20GB worth of old files on my Mac. Re-checked storage used via Disk Utility and it's now telling me system data has increased by 15GB - up to 85GB now (and increasing every time I check it), and I seemingly still only have 50GB free on my drive (although over 100GB 'available').

So following instructions on the Apple website (https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/disk-utility/dskuf82354dc/mac), I backed up first, then tried to delete the Time Machine snapshot. Except it won't let me, and tells me it's 'busy'. Busy filling up my hard drive, by the looks of it.

One piece of good news though, my Apple USB keyboard is being picked up again - I followed a tip about inserting a thumb drive into it, and bingo, it's working again.

Weird. I don't expect all this randomness from Apple.
 
familychoice said:
Mac Mini, M1, 16/500GB.

I've removed the link to the external SSD I was using for Time Machine (it was on manual back-ups, anyway), and cleared out a good 20GB worth of old files on my Mac. Re-checked storage used via Disk Utility and it's now telling me system data has increased by 15GB - up to 85GB now (and increasing every time I check it), and I seemingly still only have 50GB free on my drive (although over 100GB 'available').

So following instructions on the Apple website (https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/disk-utility/dskuf82354dc/mac), I backed up first, then tried to delete the Time Machine snapshot. Except it won't let me, and tells me it's 'busy'. Busy filling up my hard drive, by the looks of it.

One piece of good news though, my Apple USB keyboard is being picked up again - I followed a tip about inserting a thumb drive into it, and bingo, it's working again.

Weird. I don't expect all this randomness from Apple.
Click to expand...
I have never experienced any of these phenomenons,
during my days of using TM I never had any loss of disk space and my USB keyboard has never failed.
The Bluetooth keyboard on my other machine disengages after some hour of no using it; that's all.
Why blame APPLE?
;JOOP!
 
Sciuriware said:
I have never experienced any of these phenomenons,
during my days of using TM I never had any loss of disk space and my USB keyboard has never failed.
The Bluetooth keyboard on my other machine disengages after some hour of no using it; that's all.
Why blame APPLE?
;JOOP!
Click to expand...
Because it's an Apple device, an Apple operating system, and an Apple USB keyboard. I guess I'm just unlucky, eh?

So anyway, I managed to delete the Time Machine snapshot and cleared a significant amount of old unused files out, ran disk first aid, made sure everything was up to date, and after contacting Apple support, tried their three additional suggestions:

Run diagnostics - no issues found.
Run in Safe Mode - USB Apple keyboard still not recognised.
Reinstall OS - USB Apple keyboard still not recognised.

I've just checked storage via System settings, and it's stating 'System Data' is back again, 68.73GB, and increasing each time I check. The Time Machine snapshot hasn't reappeared, so I'm guessing it's doing it's caching thing again and filling up my hard drive with 'stuff'.

At this point, or before, I'd name the Apple keyboard as the culprit with my 'no keyboard connected' issues (it doesn't pick up the Bluetooth Magic mouse either, even though that works ok), but since the PC keyboard I'm using has gone through the same process (not working in each USB port in turn after a re-boot), and the Apple keyboard working ok for a while after the previous Sonoma update (plus the USB thumbnail drive trick), it's not likely.

So I'm guessing some weird software thing that 'forgets' keyboards are connected (no problem with external drives) each time the Mac is re-booted.

Next step a complete wipe and reinstall, and if that doesn't work, I'll have to pay Apple to look at my just-under-3-year-old erratic £1000+ purchase.
 
Have you emptied the Trash? Are there multiple user accounts on your Mac? If so, do other users' Trash need to be emptied? Just because a file is in the Trash doesn't mean it has been deleted. It is still taking up storage. Typically you don't have to be concerned about System Data filling up your disk. macOS will purge System Data as needed.
 
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Wiping it and starting from scratched solved all my issues. If you see my previous post i had so many problems with my new iMac M3 that shipped with Ventura, after Sonoma update it just broke all sorts of stuff.
 
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Bigwaff said:
Have you emptied the Trash? Are there multiple user accounts on your Mac? If so, do other users' Trash need to be emptied? Just because a file is in the Trash doesn't mean it has been deleted. It is still taking up storage. Typically you don't have to be concerned about System Data filling up your disk. macOS will purge System Data as needed
Click to expand...
Yeah, it’s all clean. To be honest I’m more worried about the keyboard issues. I was hoping this might be related to loss of disk space, but I’m guessing there’s a software glitch instead.

kagharaht said:
Wiping it and starting from scratched solved all my issues. If you see my previous post i had so many problems with my new iMac M3 that shipped with Ventura, after Sonoma update it just broke all sorts of stuff.
Click to expand...
I think that’s what I’ll have to do, particularly if the second keyboard connections start disappearing. At least I seem to have eliminated any hardware issues, so starting from fresh should fix it.
 
Sciuriware said:
I have never experienced any of these phenomenons, during my days of using TM I never had any loss of disk space and my USB keyboard has never failed. The Bluetooth keyboard on my other machine disengages after some hour of no using it; that's all.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don’t have any experience or knowledge of your problem either OP, and have nothing useful to add to the discussion either. I just wanted to insert myself in the discussion anyway. Have you considered that you might be imagining the whole thing? Or maybe its a trick of smoke and mirrors. How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?

After a few TM failures and data loss, I switched to CCC as well. Pretty handy tool.
 
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Minghold said:
What big pieces of non-Apple software (if any) are you running or intend to run on this?
Click to expand...
The Affinity Suite (v2), Logic Pro, and Ableton is about it really.

It all started when I couldn’t eject the external SSD Time Machine disk (a common problem, and the usual fix of rebooting the Finder didn’t work), so I shutdown without it properly ejecting.

Next reboot the keyboard wasn’t recognised in the usual rear port, so switched to one in the hub. After a few more reboots over the weeks each of the hub ports stopped recognising the keyboard, so I switched to a PC keyboard so I could login.

Note: all the hubs work with external drives, and no hardware issues picked up in the diagnostic check.

I was originally on Big Sur, happy with that (if it ain’t broke, etc.) but installed Monterey to see if it would fix the issue.

It did, and for a few weeks worked fine with the Mac USB keyboard (though via the hub, the rear port never worked again with the Apple keyboard), until it, and the PC keyboard started dropping out again.

Talked to Apple support who suggested updating to the latest OS, so again installed the new OS Somona. And again, after a few days the keyboards stopped being recognised. At one stage adding a thumb drive to the Mac keyboard helped it to get picked up (weird trick), then disappeared at the next reboot.

Going through all the checks, I noticed how little disk space I had and wondered if this was causing the issue, hence this thread.

Talked to support again and did their three recommended tests: diagnostics (no hardware problems detected), safe mode (issue still present), and re-install OS (issue still present).

I’ve removed the option to back up to Time Machine, and deleted the old local snapshot file.

I’m now down to using the PC keyboard until that disappears, having ruled everything else out bar a full wipe and reinstall.

I’m going to try and create a separate bootable SSD drive first though, if the keyboards don’t work with that then maybe a full wipe won’t work anyway. After that, buy a Bluetooth keyboard I guess.
 
Last edited:
OP wrote:
"After that, buy a Bluetooth keyboard I guess."

Heh.
If you REALLY want to see "connection problems", try bluetooth. Especially on a Mini.
A GOOD wired USB keyboard is best.
I said, a "good" one -- not one of Apple's.

I'm going to suggest this one more time:
STOP USING time machine and START USING either SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner.

Here's a direct suggestion as to what you can do:
1. Download SuperDuper by clicking this link:
SuperDuper is FREE to use for what we're going to do.
It's also very easy to use and understand. If a dummy like me can use it, YOU can use it.

2. Use SD to backup your existing internal drive to an external USB drive (either another SSD or HDD)

3. Once the backup is done, use the "erase all content and settings" option to completely "wipe" your Mac back to "moment zero".
That is, when the process is done, it will be just like you took it out of the box for the first time -- ask you to begin setup.

4. BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE, connect the backup drive.

5. Begin setup. When setup assistant asks if you wish to migrate from another drive, YES, do this. "Point the way" to the back we just made with SD.

6. Give SA time to digest everything. I suggest you migrate everything.

7. It will take a little while. See if this works for you.
And remember -- using SD like this COSTS YOU NOTHING.

Good luck.
 
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Fishrrman said:
I'm going to suggest this one more time:
STOP USING time machine and START USING either SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner.

Here's a direct suggestion as to what you can do:
1. Download SuperDuper by clicking this link:
SuperDuper is FREE to use for what we're going to do.
It's also very easy to use and understand. If a dummy like me can use it, YOU can use it.

2. Use SD to backup your existing internal drive to an external USB drive (either another SSD or HDD)
Click to expand...
Did SuperDuper ever solve the problem of creating bootable clones of APFS drives? (For HFS+ tools, I tend to use CCC5 and GetBackupPro3.)
 
Fishrrman said:
OP wrote:
"After that, buy a Bluetooth keyboard I guess."

Heh.
If you REALLY want to see "connection problems", try bluetooth. Especially on a Mini.
A GOOD wired USB keyboard is best.
I said, a "good" one -- not one of Apple's.

I'm going to suggest this one more time:
STOP USING time machine and START USING either SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner.

Here's a direct suggestion as to what you can do:
1. Download SuperDuper by clicking this link:
SuperDuper is FREE to use for what we're going to do.
It's also very easy to use and understand. If a dummy like me can use it, YOU can use it.

2. Use SD to backup your existing internal drive to an external USB drive (either another SSD or HDD)

3. Once the backup is done, use the "erase all content and settings" option to completely "wipe" your Mac back to "moment zero".
That is, when the process is done, it will be just like you took it out of the box for the first time -- ask you to begin setup.

4. BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE, connect the backup drive.

5. Begin setup. When setup assistant asks if you wish to migrate from another drive, YES, do this. "Point the way" to the back we just made with SD.

6. Give SA time to digest everything. I suggest you migrate everything.

7. It will take a little while. See if this works for you.
And remember -- using SD like this COSTS YOU NOTHING.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
My humble opinion: APPLE's keyboards never have failed me.
Just do not pour too much Pepsi over them.
;JOOP!
 
Fishrrman said:
OP wrote:
"After that, buy a Bluetooth keyboard I guess."

Heh.
If you REALLY want to see "connection problems", try bluetooth. Especially on a Mini.
A GOOD wired USB keyboard is best.
I said, a "good" one -- not one of Apple's.

I'm going to suggest this one more time:
STOP USING time machine and START USING either SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner.

Here's a direct suggestion as to what you can do:
1. Download SuperDuper by clicking this link:
SuperDuper is FREE to use for what we're going to do.
It's also very easy to use and understand. If a dummy like me can use it, YOU can use it.

2. Use SD to backup your existing internal drive to an external USB drive (either another SSD or HDD)

3. Once the backup is done, use the "erase all content and settings" option to completely "wipe" your Mac back to "moment zero".
That is, when the process is done, it will be just like you took it out of the box for the first time -- ask you to begin setup.

4. BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE, connect the backup drive.

5. Begin setup. When setup assistant asks if you wish to migrate from another drive, YES, do this. "Point the way" to the back we just made with SD.

6. Give SA time to digest everything. I suggest you migrate everything.

7. It will take a little while. See if this works for you.
And remember -- using SD like this COSTS YOU NOTHING.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this. I’m going to try the external boot drive thing first when the keyboard packs up again, but will follow these steps when I do a full wipe after.
 
familychoice said:
The Affinity Suite (v2), Logic Pro, and Ableton is about it really.
Click to expand...
(hmm.... Affinity2 requires MacOS Mavericks minimum, Logic10.5 requires Mojave, and Ableton runs on just about anything. It occurs to me that this underutilized M1 Mini could be sold off for very high three-figures if they're going for $1,199 on Amazon right now, and replaced with an i7 intel Mini with 16/500ssd config for under $200, and you'd get a subjectively faster experience running this software under Mojave.)
familychoice said:
It all started when I couldn’t eject the external SSD Time Machine disk (a common problem, and the usual fix of rebooting the Finder didn’t work), so I shutdown without it properly ejecting.

Next reboot the keyboard wasn’t recognised in the usual rear port, so switched to one in the hub. After a few more reboots over the weeks each of the hub ports stopped recognising the keyboard, so I switched to a PC keyboard so I could login.
Click to expand...
Does the Apple keyboard work on any other computer?
familychoice said:
Talked to Apple support who suggested updating to the latest OS, so again installed the new OS Somona. And again, after a few days the keyboards stopped being recognised.
Click to expand...
They tell you that not because it's the best solution (it almost never is), but because that's what they've been trained to say.
 
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