TextEdit AutoSave and SaveAs

[Ambrosia7177]

If I recall correctly, sometime in the past, maybe around Mountain Lion, Apple changed how applications like TextEdit work, and it removed the "Save As" option and it also made it so every time you saved a document it created a new version of the document.

On my now old MBP, I had found a way to fix these problems associated with TextEdit.

On my new MBP which has Sierra on it, I am wondering if these same issues exist, and if an article like below will still fix things...

http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20120604101520950


My end goal is that I do not want MacOS to save a TextEdit file unless I tell it to, and when I save a given file, it should save it as the name I specify and not make copies of the original.

Basically I want the same behavior most people have come to know on their computers when saving a file.

My reason for wanting the "correct" behavior is that I do not want extra files being created on my mac that I don't know about, because I often use TextEdit to take personal notes, but ones which I dont want lingering on my MBP or being cached off in some hidden place.

 

[Bruno09]

Hi,

see if this can help : https://apple.stackexchange.com/que...-from-saving-previous-versions-of-a-text-file

It does work with Sierra.

 

[MacGizmo]

Turn it off in the System Preferences>General tab. Turn off Ask to keep changes when closing documents at the bottom. I'm not sure what else you would need to do. I have a "Save As" available at all times with keyboard shortcut, and no app ever forces me to "Duplicate" a file in order to re-save it.

Saving a copy of the document is automatic in Apple's apps for the purpose of restoring old versions, and I'm not sure that there is a way to turn that off.

Let me add a disclaimer to this. I MAY have entered the command linked above in the Terminal at some point in the distant past... but I've updated the OS several times since then, so I would assume anything I did years ago would have been reversed by one of the OS updates. I just don't remember.

 

[Fishrrman]

I keep and use an older copy of TextEdit (version 1.6) on my newer OS installations.

It works fine.
Note: I don't delete the newer version of TE.
I just renamed the older one to "TextEdit 1.6" and they live side-by-side in my applications folder.

It still retains "Save As..." in the file menu.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

I keep and use an older copy of TextEdit (version 1.6) on my newer OS installations.

It works fine.
Note: I don't delete the newer version of TE.
I just renamed the older one to "TextEdit 1.6" and they live side-by-side in my applications folder.

It still retains "Save As..." in the file menu.

I'm confused...

Before anyone can help me, it probably makes sense to help me understand how things currently work in Sierra. My understanding is that starting several years ago, TextEdit autosaves your open documents regularly similar to how MS Word has an "autosave" feature. In addition to this, my understanding was that these autosave files get their own names. So, in my case, if I have a sensitive file with notes that I will ultimately delete, then I don't want 20 copies of that somewhere on my Mac!! (Maybe I typed in an Order # or even my credit card details or soemthing from the DMV because I needed them while on a call. In that case, it would be bad news if my mac was creating copies of this info and saving it in places on my Mac that I didn't know about!)

So, I guess this is what I am trying to do...

1.) Sierra should not save any open files unless I tell it to.
2.) Sierra should let me decide the name and location when I manually save
3.) I want a "Save As" option in TextEdit, because I often manually create versions of files (e.g. "To-Do List_2017-09-17" )


On my old Mac which I am typing on, I had to run some command line commands to make the above happen.

I looked online and am not sure if things like the link I posted above work on the newest version of TextEdit on Sierra.

The most important thing is I don't want my Mac saving my TextEdit files in secret places without me knowing this!

Hopefully that clarifies what I am asking for help with.

Thanks.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"My understanding is that starting several years ago, TextEdit autosaves your open documents regularly similar to how MS Word has an "autosave" feature. In addition to this, my understanding was that these autosave files get their own names."

Here's the solution to that:

1. Download an old app named "Mountain Tweaks":
http://tweaksapp.com/download_mountain.html

It's free.
It's old.
But -- most of it STILL WORKS with the newest OS's.

2. Open Mountain Tweaks.
3. Go to the "Lion Tweaks" pane
4. Towards the right, click the "yes" button for "disable autosave for all apps"
5. Done.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

OP wrote:
"My understanding is that starting several years ago, TextEdit autosaves your open documents regularly similar to how MS Word has an "autosave" feature. In addition to this, my understanding was that these autosave files get their own names."

Here's the solution to that:

1. Download an old app named "Mountain Tweaks":
http://tweaksapp.com/download_mountain.html

It's free.
It's old.
But -- most of it STILL WORKS with the newest OS's.

2. Open Mountain Tweaks.
3. Go to the "Lion Tweaks" pane
4. Towards the right, click the "yes" button for "disable autosave for all apps"
5. Done.

Thanks for the information.

As far as my current TextEdit, I entered these commands into Terminal and it sounds like they will address my concerns...

defaults write com.apple.TextEdit ApplePersistence -bool no

defaults write com.apple.TextEdit AutosavingDelay -int 0

Does anyone else agree?

(By the way, I think "Versions" is what I was concerned about...)

 

[CrickettGrrrl]

This is going to be vague, sorry, but several years ago I followed instructions in an OSXDaily.com post about keeping the Save As command instead of Versions throughout OS X (back in Lion? or Mountain Lion?). I recently updated to Sierra & "save as" still works the same in TextEdit & most other apps. I had also done what Fishrrman suggested re saving an older version of TextEdit app --but I think it was some some SysPref setting adjustment or Terminal command from the OSXDaily site that did the trick. ---And knock wood & kiss the gd floor, is still sticky all the way through to Sierra using Migrate.
Or I'd really lose what's left of my mind.

http://osxdaily.com/2012/09/25/stop-save-as-from-changing-original-file-in-os-x-mountain-lion/

http://osxdaily.com/2012/08/27/enable-save-as-os-x-mountain-lion/

 

[ApfelKuchen]

I really don't understand people. The reason Autosave exists is that so many people lost documents when they accidentally closed them without saving, or after an unexpected shutdown of their computer. Who knows how much money was lost by businesses when un-saved documents had to be recreated from scratch.

So, the OS is now designed to constantly autosave, so that after a close or unexpected shutdown, nothing is lost. I consider this to be a MAJOR ADVANCE. A computer that actually behaves the way people normally would want it to behave. Same reason that nobody's built a filing cabinet with built-in shredder or incinerator. Most people don't want to lose documents, they want to keep them until they consciously decide to destroy them.

Of course, people can find benefits to any kind of user-unfriendly behavior. So sure, Autosave is the enemy of someone who wants to ensure that whatever they do is never saved.

People can also adapt to systems that are less user-friendly than they ought to be. It becomes the "new normal" and should the day come when an unfriendly system finally becomes friendly... "OMG! I have to change my habits! Damn, damn, damn!!!"

What's the best way to hide your tracks in an Autosave world? Trash the stuff you don't want to save. Seems to be pretty intuitive to me. Trash it. Empty the trash. Done. Same as dropping a sheet of paper into the shredder when you don't want to leave a paper trail. If you do that, it will also be removed from any temporary caches that exist on the system.

For what it's worth, Autosave data is not saved elsewhere on your computer. Yes, there are caches to help you recover from a crash - so-called "saved state" that allows you to re-open a crashed Mac to the same open apps and documents. Saved State is not saving the documents themselves - the "autosave versions" are being saved within the actual file you're working on.

Document files are often not actually individual files, they are often packages that contain a variety of files, including embedded graphics and undo data. It's this undo data that is the true "20 copies saved somewhere on my Mac." It's the undo data that gets you back to a usable version of the file if the system crashes before the current version of the document can be auto-saved.

If you're really worried about copies of files being preserved, then don't use an incremental backup system like Time Machine. Don't use cloud storage. Give serious consideration to using a plain text editor on an old IBM PC-XT, and definitely don't plug it into an UPS. No internet connection, no network connection... Just kick the power cord when the police show up at your door.

 

[CrickettGrrrl]

I guess for most people, they're fine with autosave. Depends on what they're working on.

I use my computer for illustration, digital graphics. My iMac a great & easy way to explore alternatives with various color palettes or textures or fonts. Therefore I like to "Save As" files with dates, project names & iterations as I'm working & keep the initial, original file safe. That's my work flow, saving in my own time & what I want to save, to specific folders. I've rarely lost anything because OS X has prompts to save before closing or shutting down. There have been many, many times when I've had to open an original graphics file after a year or so to make subtle changes or make new saved-as variations.

I tested working in some graphics apps on a pristine version of Sierra on an external hard drive before I decided to update my iMac. It had versions & auto-save and not the Save-as tweak. I did end up having to dig through the versions a few times and the exact combination of tweaks I was looking for didn't exist so I had to adjust them. That was a pain.

I really don't understand people. The reason Autosave exists is that so many people lost documents when they accidentally closed them without saving, or after an unexpected shutdown of their computer. Who knows how much money was lost by businesses when un-saved documents had to be recreated from scratch.

[...]

If you're really worried about copies of files being preserved, then don't use an incremental backup system like Time Machine. Don't use cloud storage. Give serious consideration to using a plain text editor on an old IBM PC-XT, and definitely don't plug it into an UPS. No internet connection, no network connection... Just kick the power cord when the police show up at your door.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

@ApfelKuchen,

Wish I would have known you earlier - all of the money I could have saved on not going to comedy clubs and talking to you instead!

I really don't understand people. The reason Autosave exists is that so many people lost documents when they accidentally closed them without saving, or after an unexpected shutdown of their computer. Who knows how much money was lost by businesses when un-saved documents had to be recreated from scratch.

I don't have those issues, because I save and backup constantly.

So sure, Autosave is the enemy of someone who wants to ensure that whatever they do is never saved.

Right, not saved until "I" save it.

What's the best way to hide your tracks in an Autosave world? Trash the stuff you don't want to save. Seems to be pretty intuitive to me. Trash it. Empty the trash. Done. Same as dropping a sheet of paper into the shredder when you don't want to leave a paper trail. If you do that, it will also be removed from any temporary caches that exist on the system.

If Versions was saving files like "resume_01.doc", "resume_02.doc"... in my working folder, I might agree.

If you read my OP, I am concerned because I don't know where MacOS is saving "versions" of my work - especially my unsaved work.

For what it's worth, Autosave data is not saved elsewhere on your computer. Yes, there are caches to help you recover from a crash - so-called "saved state" that allows you to re-open a crashed Mac to the same open apps and documents. Saved State is not saving the documents themselves - the "autosave versions" are being saved within the actual file you're working on.

Document files are often not actually individual files, they are often packages that contain a variety of files, including embedded graphics and undo data. It's this undo data that is the true "20 copies saved somewhere on my Mac." It's the undo data that gets you back to a usable version of the file if the system crashes before the current version of the document can be auto-saved.

So what is this monster document called, and where is it saved on my HDD?

If you're really worried about copies of files being preserved, then don't use an incremental backup system like Time Machine. Don't use cloud storage.

I don't use Time Machine, although that is a bad analogy, because with TM I would be choosing what and when things are saved.

As for the Cloud - that's for idiots if privacy and security is your objective.

Give serious consideration to using a plain text editor on an old IBM PC-XT, and definitely don't plug it into an UPS. No internet connection, no network connection... Just kick the power cord when the police show up at your door.

Really?

Your comments are really out there...

 

[Significant1]

Sorry for not reading the full thread thrugh in detail. Just want to mention that Save As is still available if you hold alt-key down.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Sorry for not reading the full thread thrugh in detail. Just want to mention that Save As is still available if you hold alt-key down.

Yes, I am aware of that, but thanks anyway.

(I am more concerned about shutting of Versions...)

Thanks.

 

[quicksite]

I really don't understand people.

Yes, that's correct, you don't. So maybe not post in the guise of speaking for anyone other than yourself?

... a MAJOR ADVANCE. A computer that actually behaves the way people normally would want it to behave.

No, the way YOU would like it to behave.

Of course, people can find benefits to any kind of user-unfriendly behavior. .. People can also adapt to systems that are less user-friendly than they ought to be. It becomes the "new normal" and should the day come when an unfriendly system finally becomes friendly... "OMG! I have to change my habits! Damn, damn, damn!!!"

You've clearly got it all figured out— except for Rule #1 of User Experience Design: The user is always right. If they don't like something, they are right. If software designers insist they've improved life with their latest update, but a user nevertheless doesn't like it, the user is right. If 100 people like it, THEY are right. If one person doesn't like it, THEY are right. You, my friend, are not in charge of everyone else, you are not the arbiter of the correct way to do things.

I'm not here to convince you of anything. But I imagine I am not the only one who got fed up launching TextEdit and suddenly needing to CHOOSE "New Document?" vs just opening to a new document. Similarly, I got fed up with the document I thought was defaulting to my local drive was instead defaulting to frickin iCloud. Now you, Mac User, apparently love iCloud and all of the Mac/iphone Continuity features it enables, and more power to you, but #1 Not every Mac User uses an iPhone or iOS— shocking I know! And #2, you're presuming people don't like AUTO-SAVE— and some clearly do not like Apple's specific implementation of it on Macs— but others like me are not objecting to AUTO-SAVE -- I love auto-save.

But don't be changing my default Document SAVE LOCATION, Apple, without telling me you're doing it and without giving me a say in it. I have my own redundant backup systems and I like control of whether I save text and graphic files locally or direct to Cloud. I never told you I was OK with your changing where my PREVIEW FILES default to, nor my QUICKTIME FILES.

Saved State is not saving the documents themselves - the "autosave versions" are being saved within the actual file you're working on... blah blah Give serious consideration to using a plain text editor on an old IBM PC-XT, and definitely don't plug it into an UPS.

So you see User X2473950533r22x85bx70, you are but one Mac User. Do not presume to speak for anyone other than yourself, unless you have conducted a survey or User Testing where you have actual data from which to make grand presumptions about who is stupid and not stupid. Use Case Scenarios are Complex. Your answer was not.

 

[MacGizmo]

...I'm not here to convince you of anything. But I imagine I am not the only one who got fed up launching TextEdit and suddenly needing to CHOOSE "New Document?" vs just opening to a new document.

On top of that abomination, how about the joy of having to hit a "Delete" button when you simply want to close a new document without saving it to begin with?

TextEdit went from being a quick "go-to" app to being completely dead to me the second they added the iCloud features.