Thank you, Apple. (AKA Apple's bad "Pro" strategy helping me make some money)

[yuzgen]

A customer dropped in to buy a 5,1 from me. (I buy & sell second hand cMPs.) His phone rang. He said "put a fan to its back and hold it there with your hand." I was amused by the conversation. I immediately knew it was a heating "pseudo workstation" Mac. After he hung up, asked him about the situtation. He told me he started a big render on his iMac at the office and came to grab a cMP, a real workstation. We both laughed out loud. It was an easy deal after that, as you might have guessed.

5,1 has the longest support duration to date. The reason is, they didn't release anything to properly replace 5,1. For instance, it's really hillarious Apple is listing non-Apple PC GPUs such as RX 580 as supported on Mojave. Those cards are NOT sold by Apple and can't even show the boot screen! Apple has to support 5,1 or they will lose a BIG amount of pros to Bill Gates, today. BTW, I bet the next Mac Pro they release will support PCIe. I sold many cMP's, because musicians, composers etc. MUST use their expensive PCIe cards. Apple could have sold brand new Apple computers to them instead of me, but cMP's I sell still rock, while Apple's brand new devices heat up and aren't expendable.

Thank you, . This really helps.

PS. The dude who bought that 5,1 thanked me after making two pro music videos on his "new(!)" cMP with ease. All written on our WhatsApp conversation. I have countless similar reactions from my beloved customers.

 

[Polymorphic]

This kind of thing is why I can't pull the trigger on an iMac Pro. It might be a quiet machine, but the thermal situation is still ridiculous (the CPU hits 100C during long renders). And that's when the computer is brand-new. I'm certain that years of dust inhalation that can't be easily fixed will only make the situation worse.

 

[LorenK]

While Tim Cook has a lot of admirable qualities, innovation is not usually a notable quality in supply chain. The object there is efficiency and simplicity, which are not conducive to product innovation (which frequently involves throwing a lot of stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks). Now, everyone can argue that the Trash Can and the iMac Pro were innovative, but the real goal seemed to be simplifying their product line by reducing customer choice and customer flexibility in use of the products. I understand that there was a period when product variation got out of hand at Apple, trying too hard to emulate Microsoft, but it seems the opposite has occurred, too little product variation and too little customer choice. But then I had a 3,1, now have a 5,1, have two MacMini's and am hanging on to my 5S until they get a better featured small iPhone, not one that two years behind their top of the line (actually, just waiting to see what comes this fall, my 5S is dying a slow, sad death). Long live Apple, but loosen up the supply chain a bit to offer a bit more customer choice and flexibility.

 

[joebclash]

I work in the audio industry. In 2010 over 90% of recording studios used mac pro with pcie cards or expansion chassis. Now alot of them converted over to windows because pro-tools has increased it's support on windows. I have a college that ran his recording studio off his mac pro 4 1. A year ago the cool kids at the genius bar told him an imac will handle all his needs and his mac pro is obsolete. He upgrade his kit to thunderbolt and bought imac (before the imac pro). Turns out to be terrible advice. He has to have a floor fan blowing at the back of his imac to keep it from over heating. I recently helped him flash his mac pro bios and did cpu upgrade. He is much happy now back to using mac pro and pcie. Thanks apple.

 

[frou]

The design of the 2019 Mac Pro will definitively make it clear whether or not Apple are no-hopers when it comes to workstations.

 

[namethisfile]

The design of the 2019 Mac Pro will definitively make it clear whether or not Apple are no-hopers when it comes to workstations.

My guess is that PCIE will return. But, Apple will make it different or innovate a solution in which they combine Thunderbolt 3 ports to have 16x capable thunderbolt enclosure for PCIE devices such as GPU's, NVME's, etc.

Blackmagic already has an eGPU ready for it. But, Apple might also sell another enclosure where the user can add up to 4 PCIE devices, including two graphic cards and one single slot PCIE device, similar to Mac Pro 4,1/5,1 PCIE configuration.... If, they are feeling generous, they will throw in SATA/Power ports ready for 4 or more 3.5/2.5 drives (like the Mac Pro 4,1/5,1 SATA HDD config)....

The base modular Mac Pro will have the CPU and a basic low end GPU, RAM and maybe a couple of NVME/M.2 slots. Maybe, the GPU will be an RX 560 equivalent. And, then you will have to buy the modular mac pro 4x-thunderbolt3-bandwidth-combination(making it 16x PCIE) enclosure for a very high price. Maybe at $2500 with an RX Vega56 equivalent GPU. But everything else is empty for the user to upgrade at a later date... An upgrade to RX Vega 64 brings the price to an even-steven $3k...

The high price is Apple's way of paying the software engineers of making a 4x-thunderbolt3-thing happen and the general plug and play nature that this will enable moving forward...

Since, everything is really software dependent...

UPDATE:

To go further in this guessing game... Apple will make the "base" of the new modular mac pro into a cube again. And, the "modular" part will be a slight rectangle shape that goes on top of the cube making the two objects combined look sort of like a monolith...

UPDATE 2:

The wait... could be Apple waiting to end their contract with AMD. So, in 2019, the new modular Mac Pro's will have Nvidia Volta/Turing GPU's in them.

UPDATE 3:

Speculative theory above pointing to this might be why Apple released an iMac Pro? It could just be Apple trying to fulfill their contract with AMD and finish it.

The release of the nMBP's with same Polaris GPU's again point to Apple continuing to just finish the contract as soon as possible...

UPDATE 4:

Also, I hope new modular Mac Pro's internals and future workability and upgrade paths will somehow address the need of not having to deal with cables! I hate cables! For example, connecting the GPU's for power will be innovative or Apple-y in design in that PCIe cables are replaced with a mechanism that just snaps the GPU in place....

UPDATE 5:

Even, if I won't be able to afford a new modular Mac Pro, I hope Apple listens and doesn't listen. I mean, I want Apple to be different. But, in a good way.

UPDATE 6:

So, as long as Apple exist and the trashcan mac pro exist, which it certainly does, there is always HOPE!

 

[yuzgen]

This description sounds like an answer to the "What Apple would do with the next Mac Pro?" question.

My main second hand product interest is Lenovo Thinkpads. I'm a big advocate of the "old" keyboard and boxy, bulky IBM design. They released the Thinkpad 25, a great retro design.

Back to Apple... I would like to answer the "What Apple should do?" question. They should steal Dieter Rams' timeless design again, and use the same case design, and modernize it with new components. I personally don't like the idea of enclosures to extend my workstation. They should just give us the same over-engineered case with great cooling and near silent acoustics again. As a 41 year old computer freak, I can't think of a better design.

Lastly, a short answer to the "What Apple will do?" question. They will surprise and let down us, because they feel they need to reinvent stuff with every product launch.

"Think different" motto still lives. Difference is good, but only as long as it's logical, practical and useful.

My guess is that PCIE will return. But, Apple will make it different or innovate a solution in which they combine Thunderbolt 3 ports to have 16x capable thunderbolt enclosure for PCIE devices such as GPU's, NVME's, etc.

Blackmagic already has an eGPU ready for it. But, Apple might also sell another enclosure where the user can add up to 4 PCIE devices, including two graphic cards and one single slot PCIE device, similar to Mac Pro 4,1/5,1 PCIE configuration.... If, they are feeling generous, they will throw in SATA/Power ports ready for 4 or more 3.5/2.5 drives (like the Mac Pro 4,1/5,1 SATA HDD config)....

The base modular Mac Pro will have the CPU and a basic low end GPU, RAM and maybe a couple of NVME/M.2 slots. Maybe, the GPU will be an RX 560 equivalent. And, then you will have to buy the modular mac pro 4x-thunderbolt3-bandwidth-combination(making it 16x PCIE) enclosure for a very high price. Maybe at $2500 with an RX Vega56 equivalent GPU. But everything else is empty for the user to upgrade at a later date... An upgrade to RX Vega 64 brings the price to an even-steven $3k...

The high price is Apple's way of paying the software engineers of making a 4x-thunderbolt3-thing happen and the general plug and play nature that this will enable moving forward...

Since, everything is really software dependent...

UPDATE:

To go further in this guessing game... Apple will make the "base" of the new modular mac pro into a cube again. And, the "modular" part will be a slight rectangle shape that goes on top of the cube making the two objects combined look sort of like a monolith...

UPDATE 2:

The wait... could be Apple waiting to end their contract with AMD. So, in 2019, the new modular Mac Pro's will have Nvidia Volta/Turing GPU's in them.

UPDATE 3:

Speculative theory above pointing to this might be why Apple released an iMac Pro? It could just be Apple trying to fulfill their contract with AMD and finish it.

The release of the nMBP's with same Polaris GPU's again point to Apple continuing to just finish the contract as soon as possible...

 

[namethisfile]

This description sounds like an answer to the "What Apple would do with the next Mac Pro?" question.

My main second hand product interest is Lenovo Thinkpads. I'm a big advocate of the "old" keyboard and boxy, bulky IBM design. They released the Thinkpad 25, a great retro design.

Back to Apple... I would like to answer the "What Apple should do?" question. They should steal Dieter Rams' timeless design again, and use the same case design, and modernize it with new components. I personally don't like the idea of enclosures to extend my workstation. They should just give us the same over-engineered case with great cooling and near silent acoustics again. As a 41 year old computer freak, I can't think of a better design.

Lastly, a short answer to the "What Apple will do?" question. They will surprise and let down us, because they feel they need to reinvent stuff with every product launch.

"Think different" motto still lives. Difference is good, but only as long as it's logical, practical and useful.

I understand. I like the old big keyboards, too. But, they're not practical. You say "Difference is good, but only as long as it's logical, practical and useful." Well, I like those big IBM clicky-clacky keyboards too, which I own and it's great. But, it's in my closet because it is just too big. Space is a premium. Moving forward, unless people can find a way to colonize another planet, space will be something to be considered. And, the trashcan mac pro considers space.

And, the new modular Mac Pro, will consider it too because it is a design and engineering challenge, which is what Apple products are about, IMO.

 

[yuzgen]

Trash can is tiny, yes.

One may pick a Yorkshire Terrier instead of a Doberman. I won't.

I understand. I like the old big keyboards, too. But, they're not practical. You say "Difference is good, but only as long as it's logical, practical and useful." Well, I like those big IBM clicky-clacky keyboards too, which I own and it's great. But, it's in my closet because it is just too big. Space is a premium. Moving forward, unless people can find a way to colonize another planet, space will be something to be considered. And, the trashcan mac pro considers space.

And, the new modular Mac Pro, will consider it too because it is a design and engineering challenge, which is what Apple products are about, IMO.

 

[Macschrauber]

Apple is urged to do a proper Mac Pro 5.2, no silly toys what cant stand heavy load. What was wrong with the cheese graters ? Ok, drop the optical drives, no one needs them in 2018. So all the upper place is good for a monster power supply with good cooling. Front and back fan as for the CPU board for good air flow.

Modify the rear fan outlets for the european market. (what a joke, dropping CMP as they couldnt change the case...)

Add more PCI slots with wider space for GPUs and support 8 pin PCIe Power cables. Give PCIe Slot 1 some space underneath so 3xPCI wide GPUs fit.

USB 3, Thunderbolt, SATA 3 of course and some M2 Slots

And paint it black for those who care.

 

[handheldgames]

Timeframe is inline with Optane mixed ram/storage thats 2+ years late. Apple invested $$$ with intel & micron, pre-buying a significant majority of production for an extended period of time.

This tech has been on my radar for some time.

 

[iGobbleoff]

I wonder if with the release of the eGPU that they have a basic GPU in the new version so they keep the form factor small? Kind of like a ‘Pro’ mini?

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

I wonder if with the release of the eGPU that they have a basic GPU in the new version so they keep the form factor small? Kind of like a ‘Pro’ mini?

You mean the current Mac Pro?

 

[barmann]

I understand. I like the old big keyboards, too. But, they're not practical. You say "Difference is good, but only as long as it's logical, practical and useful." Well, I like those big IBM clicky-clacky keyboards too, which I own and it's great. But, it's in my closet because it is just too big. Space is a premium. Moving forward, unless people can find a way to colonize another planet, space will be something to be considered. And, the trashcan mac pro considers space.

Wait a second - space is at such a premium, that the size of a workstation keyboard on a desk is an issue ?
Good to hear you have enough closet space , though .

I love my Apple aluminum keyboards ( wired and full-size ) , but size is not a concern unless you travel with a seperate keyboard frequently .

 

[pl1984]

I understand. I like the old big keyboards, too. But, they're not practical. You say "Difference is good, but only as long as it's logical, practical and useful." Well, I like those big IBM clicky-clacky keyboards too, which I own and it's great. But, it's in my closet because it is just too big. Space is a premium. Moving forward, unless people can find a way to colonize another planet, space will be something to be considered. And, the trashcan mac pro considers space.

And, the new modular Mac Pro, will consider it too because it is a design and engineering challenge, which is what Apple products are about, IMO.

The 6,1 Mac Pro is very space efficient if you use it by itself. Add any form of expansion and that space efficiency can quickly evaporate.

 

[AmazingRobie]

A customer dropped in to buy a 5,1 from me. (I buy & sell second hand cMPs.) His phone rang. He said "put a fan to its back and hold it there with your hand." I was amused by the conversation. I immediately knew it was a heating "pseudo workstation" Mac. After he hung up, asked him about the situtation. He told me he started a big render on his iMac at the office and came to grab a cMP, a real workstation. We both laughed out loud. It was an easy deal after that, as you might have guessed.

5,1 has the longest support duration to date. The reason is, they didn't release anything to properly replace 5,1. For instance, it's really hillarious Apple is listing non-Apple PC GPUs such as RX 580 as supported on Mojave. Those cards are NOT sold by Apple and can't even show the boot screen! Apple has to support 5,1 or they will lose a BIG amount of pros to Bill Gates, today. BTW, I bet the next Mac Pro they release will support PCIe. I sold many cMP's, because musicians, composers etc. MUST use their expensive PCIe cards. Apple could have sold brand new Apple computers to them instead of me, but cMP's I sell still rock, while Apple's brand new devices heat up and aren't expendable.

Thank you, . This really helps.

PS. The dude who bought that 5,1 thanked me after making two pro music videos on his "new(!)" cMP with ease. All written on our WhatsApp conversation. I have countless similar reactions from my beloved customers.

What's your website? Also, what is the life expectancy of an original 2012 Mac Pro power supply when the machine if fully maxed out with components, 128gb ram, 1tb SSD, newest graphic card which will run metal applications, 3.4ghz processor. The inability to easily find power supply replacements "off the shelf" new instead of eBay is the sole reason I have not already bought a used upgraded machine. I don't like the idea of a crap shoot with the original power supply failing a month after purchase and having to go through finding the correct model online and replacing it. Thanks in advance.

 

[yuzgen]

I have no intenstion to sell anything to anybody over MacRumors. I hope I wasn't misunderstood. Must be impossible to send them overseas and your prices should be way lower anyway.

One sample of my ads. AFAIK the site can be accessed in English, but my description is in Turkish only Sorry:
https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/iki...-ve-gpu-24-ram-takas-takasli-591431373/detay/

I have a spare PSU. Only " (one) though. Keeping for my previous customers.

cMP uses a server grade 980W Delta PSU. I never saw any of them failed. Never. Feel free to buy one and enjoy. Perfect, I do mean "perfect" computers. I adore them.


BTW a few members are talking about desktop keyboards. I'm fond of the IBM keyboard with the purple Enter key for desktop usage too, but I was talking about Thinkpads. They are notebooks, not desktops. I was talking about laptop keyboards.

 

[alphaod]

I'm not really thinking of the business side of things.

But, I do hope whatever Apple makes next is expandable in terms of internal expansion because a lot of capture cards are PCIe only unless you want to buy an external solution that keeps changing connectors from the miniDP Thunderbolt to the USB-C Thunderbolt... G_d knows what Apple/Intel will change the next iteration of connectors to.

But something the old Mac Pro can't beat is the quietness of the new Mac Pro. I can run a render at full blast for hours with the trash can, and you can barely hear it. The old Mac Pro lacks some sound dampening for sure.

cMP uses a server grade 980W Delta PSU. I never saw any of them failed. Never. Feel free to buy one and enjoy. Perfect, I do mean "perfect" computers. I adore them.

I agree Mac Pro PSU is very robust. It kinds of reminds me of those older PC Power and Cooling PSUs for PCs that had 12-15 year warranties. Short of a surge or anything crazy, I don't see this power supply failing. I use an UPS with a pure sine output and I ran the Mac Pro 24/7 for 5 years without ever powering it off.

 

[yuzgen]

On noise... I'm talking about 5,1 cMPs, older could be different. The first thing I do after buying or upgrading a cMP is to stress test it. A strong GPU will make a Mac Pro noisy during the GPU stress test.

Not a single, not even dual CPUs, not the strongest can make a Mac Pro noticably noisier than idle. No cores will drop their speed. cMP's cooling is the best I've ever seen. As I already stated, I make a living on used computers. BTW, I have a daily job at a reputable holding company as a white collar employee, but that's not enough in Turkey. 5,1's heatsinks and fans are from another world.

Trash can is different. It will drop core clocks. There's no other way around. The CPU's TDP is too high for that design. So, the trash can is akin to a mobile or AIO computer, rather than the real, expendable, classical Mac Pro.

You may ignore the heat, but heat will make the hardware fail sooner.

I'm not really thinking of the business side of things.

But, I do hope whatever Apple makes next is expandable in terms of internal expansion because a lot of capture cards are PCIe only unless you want to buy an external solution that keeps changing connectors from the miniDP Thunderbolt to the USB-C Thunderbolt... G_d knows what Apple/Intel will change the next iteration of connectors to.

But something the old Mac Pro can't beat is the quietness of the new Mac Pro. I can run a render at full blast for hours with the trash can, and you can barely hear it. The old Mac Pro lacks some sound dampening for sure.



I agree Mac Pro PSU is very robust. It kinds of reminds me of those older PC Power and Cooling PSUs for PCs that had 12-15 year warranties. Short of a surge or anything crazy, I don't see this power supply failing. I use an UPS with a pure sine output and I ran the Mac Pro 24/7 for 5 years without ever powering it off.