iPhone The elephant in the room: How many generations until jailbreaking no longer exists???

[waa1futs]

How many more iPhone generations until jailbreaking no longer exists?

Personally I want to be able to jailbreak forever... but it is just not realistic over time to think the jailbreak devs, even as great as they are, to keep putting in ungodly hours purely out of good will without getting paid for it as a real job

So basically you have the resources of the richest company on earth hiring people at great wages to patch jailbreak exploits in ios, and you have jailbreak devs that aren't taken care of by anyone except themselves. I wonder who wins this long term battle?

Eventually Apple's cash flow will continue to hire great software engineers who will continue to make things harder and harder to jailbreak until eventually, one day, the jailbreak devs say "%#$! it!" and move on to more important things in life.

The only question is: When?

 

[Siggen]

I'm wondering if that was the same the 90's network hackers thought would happen to internet security.

The landscape of computer security has totally changed in 15 years. Hackers then could not have imagined how secure computers are today compared to then. Still taking your friends facebook account without access to his computer is that that big of a feat. Better yet taking money from a bank is also totally doable if you know enough about both computers and prime numbers.

I'm not predicting the future here, just comparing the past.

 

[mlts22]

What might happen is that people who are in it for the money move in. That also happened in the 1990s when the main groups of intruders went from college students to international criminal organizations.

I'm sure an organization who finds a JB and sells it somehow will bring in lots of cash. Millions, perhaps billions. They would sell a something like JAFWM to "unlock companies" that one plugs the phone into.

The result will be instead of hitting the usual websites for a JB, people end up going to the guy at the street corner to get their device JB-ed for a $10-$50 fee.

 

[takeshi74]

The only question is: When?

Only if you're operating on flawed assumption. In any case, no one can definitively answer one way or another. Where there's code there will always be hackers. Like any other two sided race things constantly change on both sides. You seem to be mistakenly assuming that one side will remain static.

 

[nepalisherpa]

There will always be loopholes and there will always be new jailbreakers.

 

[isoft7]

Well, first we must be honest about Apples market share, and it's probable decline going forward.

At some point Apple is going to be forced to change iOS from the ground up, as it's already beginning to show it's age.

When this happens, security in regards to the iPhone will change absolutely.

My opinion is that as iOS begins to experience a real decline in marketshare vs. Android and WPhone, they will eventually provide a more open environment in an attempt to stimulate development and sales.

Translation, in a few years we won't need to jailbreak to make unsupported modifications to the iPhone.

 

[TriJetHero]

I disagree with all of your assumptions

Well, first we must be honest about Apples market share, and it's probable decline going forward.

iPhone 5 Launch Props Up Apple's Share of Smartphone Market as Samsung Keeps Rolling
https://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/2...of-smartphone-market-as-samsung-keeps-rolling

At some point Apple is going to be forced to change iOS from the ground up, as it's already beginning to show it's age.

Apple is still way ahead in technology and inovation
iPhone 5 Benchmarks Appear in Geekbench Showing a Dual Core, 1GHz A6 CPU
https://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/1...://browser.primatelabs.com/android-benchmarks

When this happens, security in regards to the iPhone will change absolutely.

My opinion is that as iOS begins to experience a real decline in marketshare vs. Android and WPhone, they will eventually provide a more open environment in an attempt to stimulate development and sales.

WPhone is too little too late, Apple is commited to the security clamp down and has gained ground with the recently changed DMCA

Translation, in a few years we won't need to jailbreak to make unsupported modifications to the iPhone.

I WISH

 

[TC25]

The elephant in the room...

Hardly. Talk about drama queen language.

..over time to think the jailbreak devs, even as great as they are, to keep putting in ungodly hours purely out of good will without getting paid for it as a real job

Your flawed assumptions are legion and mentioning them 3 times doesn't make them true. There are new jailbreak devs coming along. It's not as if it's the same people doing this forever. Some of them also develop apps, so they do get paid.

The only question is: When?

Sorry, 'When' is another 'elephant in the room'.

 

[labman]

Quite simply anybody's guess. At some point hackers we know might move on maybe replaced maybe not. Apple could just make it not worth the hassle. I'd like to think forever,Time will tell.

 

[BumpyFlatline]

In my opinion, if/when today's prominent hackers leave the scene, there will be others in line. Sure it could continue to take longer and longer for each new jailbreak, but there are so many kids today coding and learning security that at some point new hackers will appear on the scene. I mean the whole idea of jail breaking is still in its infancy and where there's demand, there's always supply. So if the big named hackers hang it up, I would imagine others will step into their place. Again, this could result in a much longer wait for a jailbreak but to think it will cease to exist is hard to imagine. There has been so much blood, sweat, tears, time, money, and commitment put into the entire jailbreak community that it's just hard to believe it will dissolve.

Right? Or am I just lying to myself? Haha I feel like I should believe my post. It's basic economics.

 

[Kayan]

Well, first we must be honest about Apples market share, and it's probable decline going forward.

At some point Apple is going to be forced to change iOS from the ground up, as it's already beginning to show it's age.

When this happens, security in regards to the iPhone will change absolutely.

My opinion is that as iOS begins to experience a real decline in marketshare vs. Android and WPhone, they will eventually provide a more open environment in an attempt to stimulate development and sales.

Translation, in a few years we won't need to jailbreak to make unsupported modifications to the iPhone.

The problem with this claim is that you're assuming that Apple is willing to change their core fundamental philosophy on business: Apple controls everything and can do a better job of product development themselves rather than if they were to open up everything like the PC world. I highly doubt that Apple will be this open, even in the case that supposedly more business could be had by opening up their environment. Apple didn't open up their environment when they were struggling selling computers in the 90's, and I don't think they'll do it anytime soon. I myself do not think that would result in better products from Apple if they were to do that.

 

[Carlanga]

New hackers are always added to hot new products. Hackers will stop doing jb's when the device is no long a hot item.
I have seen 'hacks' being done for hot items since decades ago.

 

[1458279]

Back in probably 2004, Direct TV was being hacked. People would reprogram what was known as the 'football' cards and it allowed them to get free channels.

These hacks were bought and sold, card programmer devices were used, programmers would use .ASM to come up with a code set that would work.

Then all of the sudden Direct TV changed everything, the old cards were no longer used and the stations began to work only on the new system.

For a few months everyone involved waited and waited, several scams came and went suggest they had a new hack the worked.

Several years later, no known hack was out there. It's mostly been replaced with other avenues.

The point is that Apple can all but stop JB if they really wanted to and when it fits their upgrade model. They'd have to figure a way to do it while not disrupting current valid users.

Fact: Apple doesn't allow app devs to do things they can do on other platforms. Droid is selling more devices, just like IBM clones in the 80's. Apple's cool/sexy/different/easier/etc... didn't stop the massive numbers of cheap < 100% compatible clones.
Once Windows came out, there was little reason to pay the Apple premium price.

Currently Apple still charges what $100/16G memory upgrade? Even the iPad Mini is nothing more than a "We're here for Xmas" Non-retina, old processor, etc... I was actually going to buy one, before I looked at all the specs.

JB'ing is done for several reasons, 1. steal apps, 2. have functionality beyond stock settings. The 1st is silly, most are free/cheap 2nd should tell Apple they are NOT doing what the customers want. Having Dictation/siri on iPT for example made me a bit pissed. More so, because it actually works on my $300 device, but yet is NOT ALLOWED.

I was never going to JB before, now it looks like the only way to get dictation to work in my device. I can't sue Apple for not allowing dictation on my iPT, yet the device will do it, they just won't allow it.

I'm no expert on Droid or MS, but I bet Droid wouldn't do that. I'm not done buying Apple products, but I am skipping the latest releases.

I bet if Apple stopped all JB'ing, their sales would drop.

Apple is following the same business plan as they did in the 80's, it didn't work well then, they've come out on top because of being 1st with something that the people wanted. Now that others are offering same/similar products, it's only a mater of time. We just saw 75% of ALL PHONES shipped were Droid. Apples already under the gun, and they are not going away.

 

[TC25]

Back in probably 2004, Direct TV was being hacked. People would reprogram what was known as the 'football' cards and it allowed them to get free channels.

Irrelevant comparison. Jailbreaking is not theft of service.

I'm no expert on Droid or MS, but I bet Droid wouldn't do that. I'm not done buying Apple products, but I am skipping the latest releases.

I bet if Apple stopped all JB'ing, their sales would drop.

With a comment like this, you show you're no expert on Apple either.

 

[TriJetHero]

@KarlJay

I disagree

You are comparing Apple with Lemons…

The android market share is always ALL android device.
Apple in the iphone device has several models, which differ only in memory size, the spec for all iPhones in the same model/year are the same.

It is the top product in smartphone, only the Samsung SII/III can be compared, all the other droid phones fall in a lower category.

S III sales stand at 30 million units since june, the IP5 sold 5 million in the opening weekend and estimates are 25-30 million in 4 months.

In tablets Apple leads the market with well over 50% market share, with android at 18% with the iPad4 and mini launching Q4.

People ares still buying and willing to pay for the premium apple products; at $188 in parts and a sales price of $329 being sold out in just a matter of days does not really show a decline.

Yes some gains of Android are expected, but Apple is still leading the pack across the board and it looks like it will continue to do so for years to come.

 

[thatoneguy82]

Hardly. Talk about drama queen language.

LOL. Exactly what I was thinking, or misuse/misunderstanding of the idiom.

This barely qualifies as an "Elephant in the room," maybe in the OP's room, but definitely not in the general sense.

 

[Menneisyys2]

My opinion is that as iOS begins to experience a real decline in marketshare vs. Android and WPhone, they will eventually provide a more open environment in an attempt to stimulate development and sales.

I hope too. Remember 2008 (the first months of the AppStore)? Not even third-party media players were let into there. Since then, Apple has definitely let at least MM player developer a bit more unleashed. (Unfortunately, not entirely. They, for example, are still not allowed to use hardware H.264 decoding for non-native iOS containers.)

Apple will be forced to further allow additional, currently forbidden features into apps. Nonetheless, I don't think there will be system-wide tweaks and apps like Quasar, f.lux etc. ever let into the AppStore. That is, there will always be a need for jailbreaking.

 

[1458279]

Irrelevant comparison. Jailbreaking is not theft of service.

My understanding is the Jailbreaking is for two primary reasons: theft of apps and doing things the standard setup doesn't allow.

Most don't consider theft of apps, theft at all. However some apps have to provide servers for their apps, so it actually costs the app dev money to supply service to the stolen apps.

The point was that Direct TV was cracked for a while, iPhones are cracked too, they can change it with a change to the OS and/or hardware just as Direct TV did years ago. They could also completely change the system every year making it very hard for jailbreakers to keep pace.

----------

With a comment like this, you show you're no expert on Apple either.

So you're saying Apple does allow dictation or siri on the iPT? I've already done an iOS upgrade on one iPT and it didn't have dictation. Several other developers have also confirmed that neither dictation nor siri will work on the device because of Apple and even posted a link showing that it actually does work on a JB device.

So... what makes you think I'm no expert on Apple? Apple simply doesn't allow you to do things the device can do, this has been proven.

 

[1458279]

@KarlJay

I disagree

You are comparing Apple with Lemons…

The android market share is always ALL android device.
Apple in the iphone device has several models, which differ only in memory size, the spec for all iPhones in the same model/year are the same.

It is the top product in smartphone, only the Samsung SII/III can be compared, all the other droid phones fall in a lower category.

S III sales stand at 30 million units since june, the IP5 sold 5 million in the opening weekend and estimates are 25-30 million in 4 months.

In tablets Apple leads the market with well over 50% market share, with android at 18% with the iPad4 and mini launching Q4.

People ares still buying and willing to pay for the premium apple products; at $188 in parts and a sales price of $329 being sold out in just a matter of days does not really show a decline.

Yes some gains of Android are expected, but Apple is still leading the pack across the board and it looks like it will continue to do so for years to come.

Good point, however the PC market of the 80's had a bunch of different PC's (just like Android has a bunch of different phones/tablets) You had Adam, TRS, Compaq, Dell, HP, IBM... If you took any ONE of those and compared to Apple Mac the Mac would fair much better.

It's not just the devices, but the what the devices run. Just like the PC's had various CPUs, video, memory, etc... they still ran Dos/Windows and held a huge market share that Apple never came close to.

I understand that Apple is huge in the tablet market, but at the same time, Apple wouldn't be here today if not for desktop publishing and PC's eventually ate into that market as well.

Look at history, Apple had several chances to OWN the computer market, they took a path that kept the costs high. Others took the Walmart 'keep it cheap' path. Given that these devices now become outdated very quickly, cost becomes more of an issue.

My point is that if Apple stays on the same path, their market share will be eaten up by devices that are cheaper and provide same or similar performance. Once the market in China is fully underway, this will be more of an issue because of the average income levels in China. Paying $100 for 16G ram is more painful in China that the US. A 7" tablet being $130 cheaper can make a huge difference when a factory worker is making $600/month. Don't forget most of the population of the world make much less than the average american.

 

[TriJetHero]

@KarlJay

You understand wrong, jailbreaking is about freedom.
That some people use that freedom to install cracked apps is a side issue.

Yes you can install siri on on IP4 or an IPT, but the processor is not strong enough to get it working smoothly. That is the main reason Apple decided not to release it for A4 or lower devices.
It is however available for the A5 iPad2 in iOS6.

They actually are completely changing the system every year with new hardware and it does get harder.

China's middle class is actually better of than some american's. Especially in the big cities like Shanghai. And i don't see all americans walking around with an iphone, you are again comparing apple(s) with lemons. Try doing some research before making assumptions like that.