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The Lion + New Mac Pro Dilemma

tamvly

tamvly

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 11, 2007
571
18
Having been an Apple user since the Mac 2ci, many moons ago, I always looked forward to the next version of the OS. Lion was no exception. This time, I am distressed to say, is different.

Why am I posting this on the Mac Pro forum? Well, I been using a Mac Pro 3,1 for a few years now and was waiting patiently for the new Mac Pros to be announced so that I could upgrade to a new level of performance. Unfortunately, this means converting to Lion.

It's bad enough that I have to deal with losing Rosetta (and Quicken 2007), now I have to deal with the iOS'ization of Calendar, Mail and Address Book. (ugh - three steps backwards in UI design, IMHO). And spaces works just fine for me. OK, there also are some significant advantages to Lion. End of rant.

So I have a dilemma:
Upgrade when the new Mac Pros come out (I don't especially care when) with all the undesired consequences.
Or stick with the 2.8 GHz octo and Snow Leopard?
Or buy a used box with the current architecture?

I'm curious what others are thinking. Anyone with the same dilemma?
 
I already but the bullet and updated my SL to Lion. What I am a bit concerned about is exactly how it will work when I get the new Mac which will come with it's own special ver of Lion with new drivers etc, and using that version (USB flash drive media?) to do an upgrade install to my current Lion install since I assume that the current Lion install will not boot on it's own in the new Mac Pro.

So hopefully Apple will include a bootable version of Lion with the new MP. You could make one, but I have to assume they will include one, ....or not..... :rolleyes:
 
A lot of what's new in Lion are UI gimicks that can be turned off or ignored. Hence there's really no reason to fear an upgrade to Lion and really no reason to rush into it either.

The most compelling feature of Lion for me was the mail client update, but I've been using Sparrow lately anyway and will stick with it.

For me, the upgrade from Leopard to SL caused me a lot more headaches than the upgrade from SL to Lion. Most 3rd parties already have updated software and drivers or didn't require any for Lion.
 
FluJunkie said:
To be frank, I was skeptical about Lion too, and was a pretty firm "the iOS is not OS X" person. But I bit the bullet and upgraded, and have been really enjoying it.

My full thoughts are here: http://confounding.net/2011/07/21/fifty-fifty-split-a-review-of-os-x-lion/

But I'm generally pretty pleased.
Click to expand...

Excellent post and review. I'd recommend that anyone upgrading also read John Siracusa's excellent, albeit lengthy, review: http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7.ars

I suppose I'm in the wait-and-see camp. I have already migrated apps requiring Rosetta to my laptop running 10.6 and am waiting for an adapter to attach a large screen monitor.

Still, I am unhappy with Apple's decision-making on Rosetta and more unhappy with Intuit's brainlessness (is it possible to use the words "happy" and "Intuit" in the same sentence?).

All of which leads me back to waiting for the next Mac Pro before making any final decisions. Heck, I just may stay with SL for some time.
 
What's gonna happen with gfx cards? Are we going to see TB ports in the graphics cards? or are we going to have TB ports off the motherboard the next MP?

If TB graphics cards come out, then what happens to 2010 owners that want to upgrade their gfx? (screwed i imagine)
 
Lion has nice pro features. There are AVFoundation advancements that I think some apps *coughcoughFinalCutProXProFeaturescoughcough* will be taking advantage of. There is a new version of OpenGL, and additional work on the OpenGL drivers. There are also nicities like dark wake.

It's a shame, because Lion has some very nice under the hood enhancements that are specifically for pros, but they coupled it with all these horrible UI changes. I understand what you mean.

But eventually, things will move to Lion. Might be better to bite the bullet now, or at least after the first few builds of Lion.
 
In writing these posts I realized that I am actually quite happy with Snow Leopard. I could care less about the "cloud". Or iTunes enhancements. Or versioning, or many of the other Lion enhancements. All I was looking for was a faster, slightly skinnier Mac Pro with TB to attach a Promise RAID array.

Now if only Apple would provide a bootable Snow Leopard with the new Mac Pro. Not a chance ...
 
I didn't mention this earlier because I wasn't sure, but after installing Lion, I felt the performance was snappier. I thought it's probably just placebo. But after talking to a colleague who also installed Lion, we've concluded there are some noticeable performance improvements involved. It boots faster, menus and controls are more responsive... scrolling and swiping seems more responsive... it just seems faster. It will be interesting to hear from others.
 
tamvly said:
In writing these posts I realized that I am actually quite happy with Snow Leopard. I could care less about the "cloud". Or iTunes enhancements. Or versioning, or many of the other Lion enhancements. All I was looking for was a faster, slightly skinnier Mac Pro with TB to attach a Promise RAID array.

Now if only Apple would provide a bootable Snow Leopard with the new Mac Pro. Not a chance ...
Click to expand...

Hell,

Bring back "the cube" with MacMini server specs and allow for 32gig of RAM with TB to attach a Promise RAID array and I'm in!

SvK
 
I plan to wait at least six months. Probably longer.

I will wait to see solutions:

- Complete compatibility with all Adobe Suite

- This whole RAID thing needs to get resolved. My boot volume is a RAID and I have another software based RAID backup

- Etc. Etc.

There are a few Lion features I'd like...nothing vital.
 
tamvly said:
In writing these posts I realized that I am actually quite happy with Snow Leopard. I could care less about the "cloud".
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what Lion has to do with the cloud...

iCloud hasn't even shipped yet.
 
VirtualRain said:
A lot of what's new in Lion are UI gimicks that can be turned off or ignored. Hence there's really no reason to fear an upgrade to Lion and really no reason to rush into it either.
Click to expand...

what UI gimmicks are you referring to?

- Launchpad, which I think is pointless, can be mostly ignored
- Mission Control...eh. I don't think it really offers anything new or improves anything. you lose All Windows Exposé, it feels slower (slower animation?), and I feel like Spaces was compromised.
- there's a bunch of new, slow, and pointless animations, like the new window popup Siracusa complains about and the print/save dialog box. haven't figured out how to speed them up.
- Address Book and iCal look awful, lose some functionality because of the UI change, and can't be reverted.
- Full Screen was a good idea, but its implementation is poor and I don't think anyone with an iMac or MP is going to find it that useful, or more useful than a "normal" full screen mode like Aperture has.

wafl iron said:
What's gonna happen with gfx cards? Are we going to see TB ports in the graphics cards? or are we going to have TB ports off the motherboard the next MP?
Click to expand...

what's making you worry about graphics cards? TB is too slow to replace anything graphics-related.
 
Lion isn't too bad, the lack of all windows Expose is it's biggest downfall IMO.

I'm more concerned about the range of Mac's available right now, they all have the 'professional' Thunderbolt port, except for the most professional Mac available. They either need to bring out a PCI-E card with TB, or come out with new models.

Surely they won't wait another 6 months before giving the Mac Pro TB will they? Even the new 27" ACD has been made to work only with TB.
 
Would it be possible to dual boot on the Mac Pro, the G4 had OS 9 and OS X ready to go, could it be possible to have 10.6 and 10.7 installed? Might have to have an individual 'boot drive' for OS's and other drives for media? Just a thought.
 
IceMacMac said:
I plan to wait at least six months. Probably longer.

I will wait to see solutions:

- Complete compatibility with all Adobe Suite

- This whole RAID thing needs to get resolved. My boot volume is a RAID and I have another software based RAID backup

- Etc. Etc.

There are a few Lion features I'd like...nothing vital.
Click to expand...

:eek: Software-based RAID backup?

I don't quite understand how that is considered backup ... more likely a liability if anything.
 
Aldaris said:
Would it be possible to dual boot on the Mac Pro, the G4 had OS 9 and OS X ready to go, could it be possible to have 10.6 and 10.7 installed? Might have to have an individual 'boot drive' for OS's and other drives for media? Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Not only would it be possible I would highly recommend it as standard practice during Major OS updates. One drive/partition with a known solid OS/Applications combo the other for mad scientist, paid beta, iOSX testing.
 
Rustus Maximus said:
Not only would it be possible I would highly recommend it as standard practice during Major OS updates. One drive/partition with a known solid OS/Applications combo the other for mad scientist, paid beta, iOSX testing.
Click to expand...

I used CCC to clone my boot drive and then tested the upgrade. I also did a clean install to another partition of Lion. Once all of that went OK, I decided to go ahead and upgrade my "real" installation over to Lion.

I get what everyone is saying about the "features" of Lion. I'm in the dev program so I've been using it since the first developer release. Some things I like, and others I'm still getting used to (I'm looking at you new implementation of Spaces).

Incidentally, does anyone know how to assign a hot key to a full screen application to switch directly to it?
 
On a new mac pro it may be hard or impossible to infuse the new drivers with snow leopard.
 
goMac said:
I'm not sure what Lion has to do with the cloud...

iCloud hasn't even shipped yet.
Click to expand...

Well, you're right. I guess I assumed that the iCloud would, at some level, be dependent on Lion. Maybe not. Don't care, really.

Frankly, the more of my data that is under my immediate local control and the less any personal data of any kind is "cloudy", the better.
 
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