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Think I might have a faulty camera?

S

SOLLERBOY

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Aug 8, 2008
715
68
UK
Hi, I'm very happy with my X but think I may have an issue with the camera.

I've noticed a lot of smudging in the photos taken with it when compared to my old 6+ also the stock camera app keeps resetting every day or two and re enables live photos - removes the HDR selector button and brings up the thing that tells you how to use portrait mode like when you set it up when new. Is that normal behaviour in terms of the app?

I've attached a couple of samples at 100% for the images number 1 is 6+ - 2 is X (yes I know I am pixel peeping - I am not judging the quality of the camera by this just wondering if it is normal behaviour for the newer cameras?) Thanks for any assistance!

1.png
2.png
 
I didn't notice any smudges either but do you have a cloth that's rated to clean a camera lens? Gently buffing the camera might help clean up smudges that only you can see. :)
 
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It is difficult to explain, not smudges more like things mushed together. A search suggests it is the noise reduction that is more aggressive than it used to be. I assume it must be that.

EDIT: In terms of the app though, is it normal for it to reset like that? I'm not talking about persistence of the last mode you were on, I have that intentionally disabled but it keeps re enabling the flash and live photos by itself.
 
I do wish the camera settings let me choose the level of JPG compression
 
The iPhone camera has always been a crowd pleaser for its ability to deliver what appear to be great photos on a small screen. But they don't necessarily hold up to large screen scrutiny.

At the end of the day, the images are fine. Not great. There's a lot of processing going on to keep the file size down and the perceived quality up. The result is a bit smudgy and impressionistic close up.

And before someone chimes in about the "shot on iPhone" billboards and how amazing they look...if you were standing an arm's length away from one of those billboards...any billboard really...all you would see is golfball size color dots mashed together. Everything looks good speeding by in a car from 100 yards.
 
SOLLERBOY said:
It is difficult to explain, not smudges more like things mushed together. A search suggests it is the noise reduction that is more aggressive than it used to be. I assume it must be that.

EDIT: In terms of the app though, is it normal for it to reset like that? I'm not talking about persistence of the last mode you were on, I have that intentionally disabled but it keeps re enabling the flash and live photos by itself.
Click to expand...

Noise reduction can vary from image to image, camera to camera. Due to the small size of the sensor, most camera makers need to crank it up NR to get rid of the noise generated when the ISO is increased due to low light.
 
SOLLERBOY said:
....also the stock camera app keeps resetting every day or two and re enables live photos - removes the HDR selector button and brings up the thing that tells you how to use portrait mode like when you set it up when new. Is that normal behaviour in terms of the app?
Click to expand...
My X has done exactly the same. Also I do think X’s noise reduction is bit too aggressive.
 
Thank you all for your replies. It seems normal then. I'm not knocking it, just wanted to make sure it was expected behaviour.
 
Here is another example I took today. It looks good zoomed out but there is no definition zoomed in. Again I know I am pixel peeping and not judging the camera on this it is just the behaviour is different to my 6+ and I want to make sure it is expected for the newer cameras?

IMG_0500.jpg
Screen Shot 2017-11-21 at 17.51.30.png
 
SOLLERBOY said:
It is difficult to explain, not smudges more like things mushed together. A search suggests it is the noise reduction that is more aggressive than it used to be. I assume it must be that.

EDIT: In terms of the app though, is it normal for it to reset like that? I'm not talking about persistence of the last mode you were on, I have that intentionally disabled but it keeps re enabling the flash and live photos by itself.
Click to expand...

If you haven't figured out the answer to the options resetting, go to Settings > Camera > Preserve Settings ... you should be able to get it sorted out from there.
 
SOLLERBOY said:
Hi, I'm very happy with my X but think I may have an issue with the camera.

I've noticed a lot of smudging in the photos taken with it when compared to my old 6+ also the stock camera app keeps resetting every day or two and re enables live photos - removes the HDR selector button and brings up the thing that tells you how to use portrait mode like when you set it up when new. Is that normal behaviour in terms of the app?

I've attached a couple of samples at 100% for the images number 1 is 6+ - 2 is X (yes I know I am pixel peeping - I am not judging the quality of the camera by this just wondering if it is normal behaviour for the newer cameras?) Thanks for any assistance!

View attachment 737212 View attachment 737214
Click to expand...
Is the second image with zoom? That is classic iPhone zoom lens watercolor effect IYAM. Folks getting all worked up over OIS on a zoom lens on a phone body under 0.5 inch deep. Zoom lens on any iPhone is not going to give any pixel peeping happiness.
[doublepost=1511296235][/doublepost]
SOLLERBOY said:
Here is another example I took today. It looks good zoomed out but there is no definition zoomed in. Again I know I am pixel peeping and not judging the camera on this it is just the behaviour is different to my 6+ and I want to make sure it is expected for the newer cameras?

View attachment 737418 View attachment 737419
Click to expand...
Trust me... I have been following this issue for over a year.. presented a pretty compelling case to Apple Techs and is the reason I went back to a 6S Plus from the 7 Plus... it was really bad on the 7 Plus.. I know am 90% convinced it's just the weakness of the zoom lens.. OIS on a zoom lens on a tiny phone frame is more marketing than IQ IMO.
 
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Your grassy picture, that one is really odd because it is not noise reduction but looks like posterization (color banding). The latter can be caused by an over saturation of color. Did you have the color set to original and not vivid? Vivid works well when your range of colors is limited. However if there are colors at the opposite ends of the spectrum, than vivid can produce posterization. You car photo has different exposure as your 6+ is underexposed and your X looks overexposed which can also product posterization.

Also, did you try HDR? That helps to reduce posterization while giving a dynamic range of color.
 
data_null said:
If you haven't figured out the answer to the options resetting, go to Settings > Camera > Preserve Settings ... you should be able to get it sorted out from there.
Click to expand...
Thanks but I already had that selected. It seems like a glitch in iOS. When I slide over to video it doesn't even have the resolution and frame rate on screen like usual when it does this reset.
PBz said:
Is the second image with zoom? That is classic iPhone zoom lens watercolor effect IYAM. Folks getting all worked up over OIS on a zoom lens on a phone body under 0.5 inch deep. Zoom lens on any iPhone is not going to give any pixel peeping happiness.
[doublepost=1511296235][/doublepost]
Trust me... I have been following this issue for over a year.. presented a pretty compelling case to Apple Techs and is the reason I went back to a 6S Plus from the 7 Plus... it was really bad on the 7 Plus.. I know am 90% convinced it's just the weakness of the zoom lens.. OIS on a zoom lens on a tiny phone frame is more marketing than IQ IMO.
Click to expand...

No they were all with the wide. I did some more testing and it seems that the worst of it happens when I use the 2X and it does it with software instead of the lens. That + low light seems to be the issue.
california_kid said:
Your grassy picture, that one is really odd because it is not noise reduction but looks like posterization (color banding). The latter can be caused by an over saturation of color. Did you have the color set to original and not vivid? Vivid works well when your range of colors is limited. However if there are colors at the opposite ends of the spectrum, than vivid can produce posterization. You car photo has different exposure as your 6+ is underexposed and your X looks overexposed which can also product posterization.

Also, did you try HDR? That helps to reduce posterization while giving a dynamic range of color.
Click to expand...

It was taken using the camera app on default. HDR comes out mostly the same. I am zoomed in way beyond 100% so expect to see a loss of detail on a phone, just seems overly processed.


I'm mostly happy with the camera. I'm not expecting miracles from something so small. It was just different behaviour than with my 6+ so wanted to confirm it has how the cameras work now since the 7. What I think I am seeing is the phone heavily boosting the shadows and then sharpening and adding noise reduction which is causing the loss of denial when zoomed.

Thanks for your help / opinions everyone!
 
2x with wide lens? If that is digital zoom then I would highly expect it to be really bad.
 
PBz said:
2x with wide lens? If that is digital zoom then I would highly expect it to be really bad.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a google suggests in some conditions the tele lens will not trigger and the phone will use digital zoom on the wee angle.
 
That's Apple's noise reduction in action.

I call it 'smearing'.
So when you look closely or zoom in you'll see that watercolor type effect, or smearing, smudging - what have you.

It basically smooths the noise out.
Obviously shots in low light suffer more from it but it is also noticeable in shots that are taken in good lighting.

The 2x lens suffers more form this effect than the regular wide angle.

This noise reduction (to me) started to become very evident in the iPhone 6 onwards.
I moved from a 4S to 6 Plus and really noticed it.
The 7 Plus was better but still very obvious.
And yes it is still evident on the X also (not very subtle in many instances).
Of course the improved optics in the X and 8 Plus allow for better detail and light but it looks like something we have to live with.

To avoid this you can use a third party camera app that shoots in RAW format. This bypasses Apple's noise reduction and you can apply your own where you see fit, in post. Also with editing the resulting DNG file as a opposed to a jpeg you have MUCH more control in editing contrast etc etc.
Be warned - if you shoot RAW you will notice lots of noise in your images, especially in low light shots but at least you can avoid the smearing.

I have done a couple of tests with the iPhone X shooting RAW vs. the iPhone 7 Plus and the X is handling RAW shooting much better.
 
The car wheels had me thinking there was some strange JPEG compression going on and that resulted in clipped color inside the wheels and some artifacts.

The higher resolution shot with the trees I can see what you mean. I've seen it in other high resolution samples, but I've also seen samples where it looked like details were resolved at a higher level. That makes me think it's the JPEG again. The problem with JPEG images is that in-camera software (or in this case, in-smartphone software) may apply some heavy handed processing that results in loss of detail. I'm just speculating here, but the shot with the trees requires enough dynamic range so that the sky doesn't blow out (overcast cloudy skies can be surprisingly bright light sources), but there is also some detail in the shadows. Cameras will often underexpose a scene like that to preserve the highlights, and then a dramatic tonal curve will be applied to brighten up those shadows. The leaves would look sharper if they were exposed better to begin with.

I don't own an iPhone X yet (soon) and I'm still on an iPhone 6. I mostly shoot with an Olympus OM-D m4/3 camera and a Nikon DSLR. I mostly shoot RAW, but sometimes I shoot RAW+JPEG for convenience. Olympus has a better JPEG engine than Nikon (at least better than my older Nikon), and many photographers consider Olympus and Fuji to produce some of the best JPEGs in the business. That said JPEG can be a Jekyll and Hyde thing, even on an Oly. Sometimes you get stunning results that make you think you can't do any better processing the RAW file yourself, and other times the JPEG is not so good. This is especially true when the camera doesn't choose the best exposure settings, or when you're dealing with a difficult scene in terms of dynamic range and color. I almost always dial in +1/3 stop exposure compensation on my Olympus and on my Nikon... unless I'm using spot-metering. I think the camera meters are just tuned to be a bit conservative because of JPEGs, while RAW gives you more room to recover highlight details if the image is slightly overexposed.

It might be worth giving an app like Halide a try since that gives you more control over camera settings and can output to RAW. Then an app like Snapseed to edit it.
 
By default the X shoots in HEIF format. It compresses data way more aggressively than JPEG. You can change it under Settings/Camera/Formats. JPEG is the one called Most Compatible.
 
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