TiBook (Gigabit) HD Replacement

[gocke004]

Dear Fellow PPC Enthusiasts,

I have seen this question posted numerous times on the tubes and in various venues. In my research I've been seeing some conflicting reports and information floating around. I thought I'd come here now that it's 2018 and ask again!

I've got a titanium PowerBook G4 (M8363LL/A*) with 667 mhz PPC G4, 1 GB RAM, 120 GB HDD. I am looking to replace the hard drive. I am planning on installing both Mac OS X 10.4 (10.4.11) and Mac OS 9 (9.2.2). It seems like I have three options (correct me if I'm wrong):

1. Use a standard IDE/PATA HDD
2. Use an IDE/PATA SSD
3. Use an mSATA drive with IDE/PATA adapter

I've read a lot on this topic, but there are some lingering questions:

1. I have read in some cases the Mac OS 9 installer cannot recognize or "see" solid state drives. Is the solution to this just to ensure that the drive is formatted Mac OS Extended with the Apple Partition Map? Does Mac OS X 10.4 also utilize this partition map?

2. I have read that both OSX and OS9 will sometimes not recover from sleep when SSDs are utilized. This may have something to do with the "Put Hard Disk(s) to sleep when possible" check box. Has this been a problem in your experience?

3. Have people had issues with their hard drive cooling fan running at max after a drive replacement? If this is a problem, can it be repaired with an SMC reset? Or would it require 3rd party software? If this is generally not a problem, then great!

4. I have read that, in some cases, the replacement drive may be of a different thickness and not fitting properly into the bay. Is this a general problem, or have the few people who've had this problem purchased a non-standard sized drive?

It's 2018, I feel like a lot of these questions probably have answers somewhere on the internet, but I'm having a hard time finding them. In particular, I've read through this thread (https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/post-your-ssd-cf-sata-pata-powerpc-benchmark-results.2063361/) and I do see a fair number of you have indeed used SSDs on PPC macs, there were even 1-2 TiBooks in there. Other relevant threads: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4285.msg29517.html#msg29517 and http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2605.msg15759.html#msg15759.

I am not really concerned about speed differences or cost for that matter. I am simply looking to replace the drive on this computer so as to extend its lifetime. It's been a champ so far and my major concern is longevity.

So, my last question to you is: Which of the three options above do you recommend, and what hardware should I choose? Links would be useful. Thank you for your help! This is my first-ever post here on macrumors.

 

[Slix]

Welcome to the PowerPC forum here!

I've put an SSD into my 800 MHz PowerBook G4, and I used this adapter plus this 32 GB mSATA SSD. Originally I was planning on getting one of these Transcend drives, but when I ordered it they sent me an email saying they were out of stock. So, try your luck if you want, but the KingSpec one works well (and if you search, you can find different sizes if you'd like something larger).


1. If I recall, all I did was put the OS 9 CD in, and install it with the Mac OS Extended settings, and I did not partition it at all. Then, I installed 10.4 on it using the same partition, and I can boot between them.

2. I haven't had any issues with recovering from sleep on my TiBook, on OS 9 or 10.4.

3. I also haven't had any issues with hard drive fans running at full blast. The computer runs kind of hot when doing some tasks, but so do most of the computers I've used, especially in the summertime.

4. My SSD fit normally right in there, as if it was a regular hard drive size, since the enclosure is meant to fit in instead of a regular drive.


I got the drive since my original drive it came with when I bought this machine was loud and clunky, and not very fast, plus regular drives were few and far between online, and some weren't even guaranteed "new". I'm satisfied with it, after a lot of time using it already. Best of luck deciding what to do with your Mac! We'd love to see pictures when you get it done.

 

[gocke004]

Welcome to the PowerPC forum here!

I've put an SSD into my 800 MHz PowerBook G4, and I used this adapter plus this 32 GB mSATA SSD. Originally I was planning on getting one of these Transcend drives, but when I ordered it they sent me an email saying they were out of stock. So, try your luck if you want, but the KingSpec one works well (and if you search, you can find different sizes if you'd like something larger).


1. If I recall, all I did was put the OS 9 CD in, and install it with the Mac OS Extended settings, and I did not partition it at all. Then, I installed 10.4 on it using the same partition, and I can boot between them.

2. I haven't had any issues with recovering from sleep on my TiBook, on OS 9 or 10.4.

3. I also haven't had any issues with hard drive fans running at full blast. The computer runs kind of hot when doing some tasks, but so do most of the computers I've used, especially in the summertime.

4. My SSD fit normally right in there, as if it was a regular hard drive size, since the enclosure is meant to fit in instead of a regular drive.


I got the drive since my original drive it came with when I bought this machine was loud and clunky, and not very fast, plus regular drives were few and far between online, and some weren't even guaranteed "new". I'm satisfied with it, after a lot of time using it already. Best of luck deciding what to do with your Mac! We'd love to see pictures when you get it done.

Thanks for getting back to me! This looks like a great option, and quite a bit less pricy than some of the IDE SSDs I've seen out there. I'm glad to hear that this does not suffer any of the problems I've seen in some of the other forum posts (a lot of those problems seemed to be with the SSD IDE drives). I will give this a try. It looks like the Transcend mSATA cards are back in stock, so I may try a 64 GB one of those. I'll post some pictures when I get the hardware!

 

[mode11]

My G4 upgraded Pismo had a Kingspec IDE SSD in it when I bought it, which worked fine except it wouldn't wake from sleep. That SSD is now in a Cube, where funnily enough it works fine (it was fine in an MDD as well, IIRC).

Don't bother with IDE SSDs, as they tend to be low spec and not especially cheap. The IDE adapter + mSATA SSD is a much better solution. Marvell 88SA8052-based adapters are very reliable - I use this one in the Pismo and it works perfectly: https://www.scan.co.uk/products/lycom-st-173-7-covert-msata-ssd-as-high-speed-7mm-25-ide-ssd-drive.

Incidentally, I've got an old IDE adapter for SATA 3.5" HDDs that uses an older Marvell chipset, and that also has a wake from sleep issue; getting a newer version (again with a 88SA8052 chip) completely solved that, in a QS G4 tower.

 

[ziggy29]

I'm partial to the mSATA solution with IDE adapter. I have one in my Pismo, my 1 GHz TiBook and in my DLSD. On the TiBook I got a 250 GB mSATA drive and triple boot with OS 9, Tiger and Leopard. I tend to stick with the Marvell chipset and I really haven't ever recalled any issues.

 

[gocke004]

My G4 upgraded Pismo had a Kingspec IDE SSD in it when I bought it, which worked fine except it wouldn't wake from sleep. That SSD is now in a Cube, where funnily enough it works fine (it was fine in an MDD as well, IIRC).

Don't bother with IDE SSDs, as they tend to be low spec and not especially cheap. The IDE adapter + mSATA SSD is a much better solution. Marvell 88SA8052-based adapters are very reliable - I use this one in the Pismo and it works perfectly: https://www.scan.co.uk/products/lycom-st-173-7-covert-msata-ssd-as-high-speed-7mm-25-ide-ssd-drive.

Incidentally, I've got an old IDE adapter for SATA 3.5" HDDs that uses an older Marvell chipset, and that also has a wake from sleep issue; getting a newer version (again with a 88SA8052 chip) completely solved that, in a QS G4 tower.

Yes, I did notice that those IDE SSD drives cost a pretty penny. I wasn't sure if they were all that great. Thanks for your two-cents on that! It's looking like the mSATA + adapter is the way to go.
[doublepost=1535591722][/doublepost]

I'm partial to the mSATA solution with IDE adapter. I have one in my Pismo, my 1 GHz TiBook and in my DLSD. On the TiBook I got a 250 GB mSATA drive and triple boot with OS 9, Tiger and Leopard. I tend to stick with the Marvell chipset and I really haven't ever recalled any issues.

Wow! Triple boot! Very nice. Do you find that you use the leopard and OS9 more than Tiger, just in terms of both new and legacy software support? How did you partition your drive for that set-up? I assume into 2 or 3? I thought I had read somewhere that 200 GB was the maximum drive size that OS 9 can detect...is that true?

 

[gocke004]

Welcome to the PowerPC forum here!

I've put an SSD into my 800 MHz PowerBook G4, and I used this adapter plus this 32 GB mSATA SSD. Originally I was planning on getting one of these Transcend drives, but when I ordered it they sent me an email saying they were out of stock. So, try your luck if you want, but the KingSpec one works well (and if you search, you can find different sizes if you'd like something larger).


1. If I recall, all I did was put the OS 9 CD in, and install it with the Mac OS Extended settings, and I did not partition it at all. Then, I installed 10.4 on it using the same partition, and I can boot between them.

2. I haven't had any issues with recovering from sleep on my TiBook, on OS 9 or 10.4.

3. I also haven't had any issues with hard drive fans running at full blast. The computer runs kind of hot when doing some tasks, but so do most of the computers I've used, especially in the summertime.

4. My SSD fit normally right in there, as if it was a regular hard drive size, since the enclosure is meant to fit in instead of a regular drive.


I got the drive since my original drive it came with when I bought this machine was loud and clunky, and not very fast, plus regular drives were few and far between online, and some weren't even guaranteed "new". I'm satisfied with it, after a lot of time using it already. Best of luck deciding what to do with your Mac! We'd love to see pictures when you get it done.

Hey Slix, so I received my mSATA to 2.5" PATA/IDE adapter in the mail today. I used the link you sent me. I also picked up a KingSpec 128 GB mSATA card. This seems like a really great storage solution for such an old computer.

Excited to install this baby in the PowerBook, I got to work. I got all the way to the part where I unhook the fragile orange IDE cable from the old HDD and that's when I realized...wait a minute...this enclosure case has an extra pin on it. Am I crazy? I have attached a photo from the ebay page you sent and a photo I took of the device I received. Is this a 44 vs 43 pin issue? I count 43 pins (47 actually, if you count the additional group of 4)...although I see everyone referring to this as a 44 pin adapter. Not sure what to make of it.

Any idea what to do next, other than message the ebay seller?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Slix]

@gocke004: Glad to see you got it! Hmm... Silly question but worth asking... Have you tried just connecting it to the IDE cable? Is there a pin hole for the 44th pin there? I don't remember running into any issues with mine like that, so it makes me think the adapter will work as it should. Either way, be careful with those pins so you don't bend them!

Otherwise, yeah, send them a message with the photo you attached, and see if there was a mixup perhaps.

 

[z970]

I agree with @Slix. I had the same adapter and didn't face any problems.

Just install it normally. Maybe the stock photo was screwed up.

 

[gocke004]

@Slix @z970mp

Hmm, a very interesting predicament indeed. The IDE cable for the laptop does not have a pinhole at that position (see attached picture). I actually didn't even notice the discrepancy until I was trying to plug the cable into my new enclosure and noticed it wasn't going on. From what I've read, it appears that this pin (pin #20) does not carry power or data, but instead is used as a "key" to help orient the IDE cable so that it is installed/aligned properly with the other pins. Does this mean I can cut it off and not run into any performance issues? I don't even know how I'd go about doing that...

http://paulski.com/zpages.php?id=1717

 

[mode11]

@Slix @z970mp

Does this mean I can cut it off and not run into any performance issues? I don't even know how I'd go about doing that...

Some strong side-cutters / wirecutters would work, though a shame to void the warranty, before you even know it works. Could potentially drill a small hole in the Mac’s connector.

 

[z970]

I'd just be careful and use some wirecutters. If the pin has no slot, then it isn't needed. There's really not a lot you can do about that.

Make sure you get the correct pin!!

 

[mode11]

That missing pin is normally just used for keying the connector, so will have no function. If it was me, however, I would just send it back and get a solution that doesn't require cutting anything i.e. an mSATA SSD and adapter.

In fact, I just bought another Lycom ST-173-7 from Scan (£18) and a 120GB Intel 525 mSATA SSD from eBay (£22), this time for a 1GHz TiBook.

Edit: re-read your post and saw you are actually using an mSATA SSD + adapter (I thought you'd bought a Kingspec IDE SSD). In that case, yeah, just cut off the pin of adapter, if it was cheap.

 

[z970]

Don't be him. Cutting a single pin will be far easier, faster, and you will feel great accomplishment.

There's really nothing to it. Just...

Make sure you get the correct pin!!

 

[gocke004]

Alrighty! I finally had time to sit down and get this little drive installed. I ended up returning the mSATA to IDE enclosure case and reordered one from amazon. The new one I got had the correct pin count, so I was able to install the drive with no problems! I know I know I'm a n00b for not trying to cut the pin off the other one, but I wanted a solution that didn't require any customizing like that.

I used my other powerbook G4 to format the hard drive with the Apple Partition Scheme, then I used my 2009 MBP and CCC to copy over a cloned disk image I had made a few days earlier!

Thank you to everyone who helped out in this project. I can say it was definitely a successful outcome! The ol' Powerbook G4 is running smoothly...even better than before!

 

[z970]

I ended up returning the mSATA to IDE enclosure case and reordered one from amazon. The new one I got had the correct pin count, so I was able to install the drive with no problems! I know I know I'm a n00b for not trying to cut the pin off the other one, but I wanted a solution that didn't require any customizing like that.

That was wholly unnecessary, in my book. That other enclosure probably got needlessly recycled.

:idonotapprove:

 

[torvan]

I can tell you my own experience:

1. In my iMac G4 800Mhz, I just partitioned the drive and formatted with Drive Setup using the OS9 Universal CDROM. It has a Crucial 500 GB SSD drive which I split into three petitions. Had no problem at all installing and running OS 9.2.2.

2. In my iMac G4 1.25Ghz USB 2, I have a 500 GB Samsung EVO 860 in it. While I did not attempt to install OS9 on it, I can tell you that both Tiger and Leopard run on it just fine.

I would suggest, since no PPC OS uses TRIM (it came with 10.6) or other such provisioning that you get a SSD that has built-in provisioning, like the Samsung EVO series or the Crucial MX series.

 

[z970]

I would suggest, since no PPC OS uses TRIM (it came with 10.6) or other such provisioning that you get a SSD that has built-in provisioning, like the Samsung EVO series or the Crucial MX series.

Going from their specification sheet, the Crucial BX series has built-in garbage collection with TRIM-enabled as well.

Here's one I found on Amazon while hunting around. It's good-sized, cost-effective, and even includes 3D NAND. I'd recommend this one.

https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-BX50...3DRK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1537249635&sr=8-1

It just released last month, so I'd assume Micron fixed some uncommon defects from the prior BX300 models hailing from last year.

 

[MagicBoy]

All SSDs have garbage collection, however some in the days before TRIM were better than others. I'd far rather run something modern from Samsung, Crucial, Sandisk etc in an IDE adapter than a Kingspec "native" IDE drive based on controller and memory technology from the dark ages.

You know what they say about assumption?

BX500 likely uses the new 64-layer NAND which allows Crucial to reduce manufacturing costs. The only one in the BX range which wasn't great was the BX200.