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Time Machine Backups Question
- Thread starter Robert4
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Everything you need to restore the system and user data.
The only thing I have not seen it automatically restore is some privacy items like credit card CCVs in the wallet and internet account passwords. I've always had to reenter those.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
TM generally "just works"- no caveats. Others will make a case for Carbon Copy Cloner and SuperDuper backups... or backups using them in addition to TM... and both of those are excellent options.
TIP: Ideally, you don't think in terms of a SINGLE TM backup but at least TWO of them, with one you can store offsite and regularly rotate with the onsite (near) clone. This protects against the fire/flood/theft scenarios, which will very likely kill your backup at the same time they kill your main system.
I do exactly this, with one drive stored in a bank safe deposit box. About ever 30 days (which is about the right amount of time for me), I rotate the drives: the most currently up-to-date TM drive goes to the bank and the now 30-days-old TM backup comes home and takes over as the new current TM backup. Worst case scenario in that situation would be fire/flood/theft on day 29, as I'd be at risk of losing the last 29 days of data (however I have other backups for the freshest files, such as regular syncs between desktop & laptop of latest files).
Drives of size are dirt cheap, so at least the dual backup option is a very good consideration. Fire/flood/theft are real, common scenarios and they are all likely to take out the TM backup connected to the main store of files in the Mac. One reasonably up-to-date backup stored somewhere else is the ultimate peace-of-mind to foil those scenarios.
TIP #2: Go big. Many people seem to think minimum TM storage in a world where 2 more TBs of HDD might cost $10-$20 more. I always suggest buying at least 3X maximum amount of internal storage, but more if you can afford it. For example, if your Mac has 2TB inside, I'd suggest at least 6TB for TM drives. However, with the cost difference from 6TB to 10TB being about $30-$40 retail, I'd readily jump on the 10TB option for only $35 or so difference. HDDs tend to last many years (I've got several still in service at 10 years now), so buy for the long-term with them priced so cheap.
You are being smart for proactively getting a backup strategy in motion. Most people wait until they have a dead/dying drive to wake up to the importance of this topic. Hopefully, you'll never need to recover from the offsite TM backup... but if you do... you'll have an easy path to nearly full restoration.
TIP: Ideally, you don't think in terms of a SINGLE TM backup but at least TWO of them, with one you can store offsite and regularly rotate with the onsite (near) clone. This protects against the fire/flood/theft scenarios, which will very likely kill your backup at the same time they kill your main system.
I do exactly this, with one drive stored in a bank safe deposit box. About ever 30 days (which is about the right amount of time for me), I rotate the drives: the most currently up-to-date TM drive goes to the bank and the now 30-days-old TM backup comes home and takes over as the new current TM backup. Worst case scenario in that situation would be fire/flood/theft on day 29, as I'd be at risk of losing the last 29 days of data (however I have other backups for the freshest files, such as regular syncs between desktop & laptop of latest files).
Drives of size are dirt cheap, so at least the dual backup option is a very good consideration. Fire/flood/theft are real, common scenarios and they are all likely to take out the TM backup connected to the main store of files in the Mac. One reasonably up-to-date backup stored somewhere else is the ultimate peace-of-mind to foil those scenarios.
TIP #2: Go big. Many people seem to think minimum TM storage in a world where 2 more TBs of HDD might cost $10-$20 more. I always suggest buying at least 3X maximum amount of internal storage, but more if you can afford it. For example, if your Mac has 2TB inside, I'd suggest at least 6TB for TM drives. However, with the cost difference from 6TB to 10TB being about $30-$40 retail, I'd readily jump on the 10TB option for only $35 or so difference. HDDs tend to last many years (I've got several still in service at 10 years now), so buy for the long-term with them priced so cheap.
You are being smart for proactively getting a backup strategy in motion. Most people wait until they have a dead/dying drive to wake up to the importance of this topic. Hopefully, you'll never need to recover from the offsite TM backup... but if you do... you'll have an easy path to nearly full restoration.
I'd add to this that for backups it's absolutely not necessary to drop $$$ on the fastest drives. Initial backups will be slow, but just wait it out. Subsequent backups will be much quicker, even on a slow portable HDD. Capacity and reliability are more important here.
It's NOT an archive service. It decides when to delete backup copies, you don't. Once it starts thinning (i.e. deleting hourly, daily and weekly backups) then the file you thought you had may no longer be there.
if you need to absolutely guarantee that there is a copy of something that is kept forever, then find another way of doing it.
if you need to absolutely guarantee that there is a copy of something that is kept forever, then find another way of doing it.
AND
one can use a usbC thumb drive to create a Time Machine back up.
since the sizes are large now and cheaper than ever before.
The 256 GB sandisk is backing up the MBAM1 with 35 minutes remaining. now.
I might delete that and revert to a NMVe blade instead.
one can use a usbC thumb drive to create a Time Machine back up.
since the sizes are large now and cheaper than ever before.
The 256 GB sandisk is backing up the MBAM1 with 35 minutes remaining. now.
I might delete that and revert to a NMVe blade instead.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I'll add to your add to strongly endorse putting the TM budgets TOWARDS HDDs over SSDs: much more storage for the bucks and they work just fine for TM usage. In a manner of speaking, buying BIG HDD vs. smaller SSD means one is buying more time for the "go back in time" aspects of TM.
And on this topic, one more tip: I opt for just bare drives with a bare drive dock and plastic cases for the drives for transport to/from and storage at the bank. While others may want a drive wrapped in its own case, this bare drive approach works fine for me.
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In addition to my TM backup, I backup all my documents to 2 external SSDs. I can reinstsll programs but not recreate work. This way, if I need to replace a machine on the road I have the critical files, and with one in Win format could get a PC in a pinch.
im doing that now on several drives.
this thumbs drive back up is slooooow tho.
now 41 minutes, 58% finished and probably HOT!
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If you encrypt the backup would it save those (as for an encrypted iPhone backup)?
Yeah, this is an important limitation . . . TM has two main use cases IMO - (1) recover from catastrophic loss of internal drive (theft, damage, etc.); (2) restoring recent accidental deletions. It's not an archival system where you could say "whoops, I need that think I deleted 7 years ago after all" and be confident you could get it back. That's a different use case and calls for different measures (and probably a string of hard drives that you store - like companies with backup "tapes")
Yea. I use Carbon Copy Cloner for flash drive backups as i find it more flexible than TN and TM for at home/ on road ssd daily backup.
It should as it is just a data file. Never checked however.
Surprised by some of these answers. Yes, it does backup "everything". You can tell it what you *don't* want it to back up and then just let it do its magic. When an macOS upgrade bricked my Mac and the Genius Bar had to wipe my hard drive I used a TM backup to restore and it was like nothing happened. I got back all of my personal files.
I strongly agree with the advice to have an offsite backup also. I use BackBlaze for that.
I strongly agree with the advice to have an offsite backup also. I use BackBlaze for that.
No, but:
Hopefully
Where "everything" is everything, except what has been excluded.
I am always surprised by how many files and folders are excluded. Over 800 on my Mac - mostly folders. If you want to know what has been excluded, look at the exclusions list in a backup.
In Finder: Enable show hidden files (Command-Shift-dot). Goto the TM disk; Choose a snapshot; Inspect the file
.exclusions.plist. Need to use a plist aware editor, like BBEdit. And enter your admin user password.The exclusions are threefold:
1) Standard exclusions - mostly logs, caches and some databases. All will be recreated following recovery. Long ago this list was in a file in /System/Library/CoreServices/backupd.bundle - I don't where it is now or even if it exists as a file.
2) "Sticky" Exclusions - lots (!) of folders and files which have been marked as not needed for recovery. These excludes may have been put on folders/files by macOS, apps or the user. You can also find these exclusions by looking for folders/files with the exclude item extended attribute - in Terminal
sudo mdfind "com_apple_backup_excludeItem = 'com.apple.backupd'"3) User Exclusions - this is those added by you in TM settings.
Don't get unduly worried about the sticky exclusions that you knew nothing about!
Edit:
Have a read of https://eclecticlight.co/2021/09/08/what-doesnt-time-machine-back-up-2/ for more about exclusions.
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HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
OP, I read that last post like you may be mixing a concept of archival backup with TM backup, so it may be important for you to know this: TM is a "rolling" backup, meaning when the storage is near full, the oldest version of files will be overwritten to create room for newest version of (changed) files. This is different than an archival backup which is basically going to backup files like "old emails" to have available for up to forever.
If your goal is- say- to backup those emails and then delete them from main (internal) storage, TM is not a long-term answer, as- I think- eventually your deletion on the main will result in deletion in the TM backup. So if the goal is to backup ANYTHING and then delete it from the main (internal) storage while retaining the ability to recover it, TM is NOT the solution for that. Instead, you could use Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper for "whole drive archive" or simply export a block of files like "old email" to a formatted drive. Once they are there, you could delete them from the main, internal drive but still be able to get to them if you need them at some future date.
TM is archival only in the short-term. You might think of it as a mirror of the files on the drive(s) being backed up PLUS some number of older versions of the same files that fit into total available space. However, if you delete files from the internal, eventually they are deleted in TM too (that's mirroring the deletions).
If you have a number of files that you basically know you will NEVER want to delete, an archival drive is a great way to go. You can also burn such files to a much more compact optical disc or, ideally, 2+ such discs, so that you can store one of them offsite to protect against fire/flood/theft scenarios. "Old Email" may be that important to you... as could a photo collection, home movie collection, etc. Those are often "forever" archive-type backups instead of TM-type backups.
Incidentally, the same applies to thinking of iCloud as a backup for media like photos. It is also "mirroring" vs. archiving... and should not be trusted as a long-term archive of photos backed up "offsite." Yes, it's better than nothing (offsite) but- IMO- it would be a better decision to own/control 2+ drives with regular rotation between onsite and offsite duplicates.
Can a TM disc be an archive disk? Yes, with very special handling/care. If you make a TM backup of everything and then opt out of continuing to use it as a TM disc, it is a snapshot of "everything" at that point in time. It won't be acting as a "rolling" backup but much more like an archival one. However, if me, I'd just use separate drives for separate purposes if my intent is- in fact- both purposes. That way, I'd never accidentally, turn TM back on for an old TM "archive" disc and potentially have rolling deletions delete some files I didn't want erased.
IMO, the ULTIMATE archival backup is still optical media because it is generally WRITE ONCE media. Burn those emails, a photo collection, home movies, important "forever" documents, etc to an optical disc and there's pretty much no way to delete them or overwrite them by mistake. The disc becomes READ ONLY after the burn. It's very compact long-term storage too.
The ONLY negative to optical is that there's generally no updating the same disc when you add new photos, home movies, email to archive, etc. Instead, you have to burn a whole new one to regularly keep this kind of archive up to date. Still, you can stack up a lot of evolving archivable backups on optical in the space of a 3.5" bare HDD. When one has 4 or 5 ever-updating opticals OFFSITE, it's just about impossible to lose that media: the event would have to take out your main storage, your local TM backup AND the location of your offsite backups. If you can worry about that kind of scenario but still think you survive it yourself, plot 2+ distinct offsite locations... far apart. With 2 offsite stores far apart, the event would have to be towards cataclysmic to take out your local tech, offsite 1 and offsite 2+.
If your goal is- say- to backup those emails and then delete them from main (internal) storage, TM is not a long-term answer, as- I think- eventually your deletion on the main will result in deletion in the TM backup. So if the goal is to backup ANYTHING and then delete it from the main (internal) storage while retaining the ability to recover it, TM is NOT the solution for that. Instead, you could use Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper for "whole drive archive" or simply export a block of files like "old email" to a formatted drive. Once they are there, you could delete them from the main, internal drive but still be able to get to them if you need them at some future date.
TM is archival only in the short-term. You might think of it as a mirror of the files on the drive(s) being backed up PLUS some number of older versions of the same files that fit into total available space. However, if you delete files from the internal, eventually they are deleted in TM too (that's mirroring the deletions).
If you have a number of files that you basically know you will NEVER want to delete, an archival drive is a great way to go. You can also burn such files to a much more compact optical disc or, ideally, 2+ such discs, so that you can store one of them offsite to protect against fire/flood/theft scenarios. "Old Email" may be that important to you... as could a photo collection, home movie collection, etc. Those are often "forever" archive-type backups instead of TM-type backups.
Incidentally, the same applies to thinking of iCloud as a backup for media like photos. It is also "mirroring" vs. archiving... and should not be trusted as a long-term archive of photos backed up "offsite." Yes, it's better than nothing (offsite) but- IMO- it would be a better decision to own/control 2+ drives with regular rotation between onsite and offsite duplicates.
Can a TM disc be an archive disk? Yes, with very special handling/care. If you make a TM backup of everything and then opt out of continuing to use it as a TM disc, it is a snapshot of "everything" at that point in time. It won't be acting as a "rolling" backup but much more like an archival one. However, if me, I'd just use separate drives for separate purposes if my intent is- in fact- both purposes. That way, I'd never accidentally, turn TM back on for an old TM "archive" disc and potentially have rolling deletions delete some files I didn't want erased.
IMO, the ULTIMATE archival backup is still optical media because it is generally WRITE ONCE media. Burn those emails, a photo collection, home movies, important "forever" documents, etc to an optical disc and there's pretty much no way to delete them or overwrite them by mistake. The disc becomes READ ONLY after the burn. It's very compact long-term storage too.
The ONLY negative to optical is that there's generally no updating the same disc when you add new photos, home movies, email to archive, etc. Instead, you have to burn a whole new one to regularly keep this kind of archive up to date. Still, you can stack up a lot of evolving archivable backups on optical in the space of a 3.5" bare HDD. When one has 4 or 5 ever-updating opticals OFFSITE, it's just about impossible to lose that media: the event would have to take out your main storage, your local TM backup AND the location of your offsite backups. If you can worry about that kind of scenario but still think you survive it yourself, plot 2+ distinct offsite locations... far apart. With 2 offsite stores far apart, the event would have to be towards cataclysmic to take out your local tech, offsite 1 and offsite 2+.
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Right, but what I meant (and should have clarified) is that all of your personal files should be covered. All of those and my applications were restored from my TM backup. System logs, caches, etc are something I'd actually not spend backup space on if possible. That means more space for my personal files.
If you use optical media be sure to buy archival quality disks. More expensive but less prone to data loss over time than regularizes, although most regular ones have long life. It all depends on the value of the data and how long you want it around.
I have 3 other users on my MBP. If I do a TM backup on my account, will it also back up the other 3 users?
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Yes.
And if someone has several people within a household with their own Macs, buy a great big TM HDD and it can be shared so that each separate Mac is backing up to one central store. A good option here is to attach it to the USB port on a router (basically ending up with something pretty similar to Apple's old router/TM NAS combo boxes called Time Capsule which won't work with every router but will work with some) and/or opt for a NAS drive as this household centralized TM disc, attached to router via ethernet (which will pretty much work with EVERY router). Then each Mac can use some space on it for their own separate TM backups.
If you want to control how much space each unique Mac has for TM, partition the drive and allocate partitions to each Mac. For example, if you had a 20TB drive and 4 Macs, you might slice it into four 5TB partitions to give each Mac a 5TB max capacity TM space. Or maybe the most important Mac gets- say- 10TB and the other 3 get about 3.33TB each. OR, you can just allocate one big shared space in a single big partition.
In my household, I have a Synology NAS with its TM service turned on for this purpose. So along with a couple of dedicated HDDs so I can support the "rotate at least one drive off site" I also have every-other-hour TM backups going onto a Synology, which itself has a RAID-5-like backup system protecting against a single drive failure in its huge storage too. FAM shares some TM space on it from their own Macs and I have a couple of actively-used Macs backing up to it too. It all "just works."
Again, in a fire/flood/theft scenario, I could lose the Macs, the Synology NAS and the local TM backup... so getting a fairly fresh TM backup OFFSITE is key for those very real, commonplace scenarios driving data loss. Anyone reading this thread and plotting their own TM backup should make the strategy of getting one fresh backup offsite a paramount part of their considerations. It's better to have one fairly recent backup offsite than 50 fresh backups all at the same location.
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In addition to my other backups, I use a program call ARQ to make an encrypted backup of select files to cloud storage. That way, I also have off site storage and its encrypted by me, not the cloud company.
Apps will get moved over, but some apps, MS and Adobe apps in particular, will see they are on new hardware and require you to reenter the registration info.
I can verify Office 360 requires a new sign in for sure; having just gone from a base M1 MBP to a base M3Max MBP.