Time to accept that $550 is a "fair" price

[cycling_pete]

Now that reviews are out it's fairly clear that the APMs are being marketed towards the prosumer, similar to the target market for the Bose QCs/Sony XM4s. At least to me, it's fairly clear that most consumers in this market will pay $200-250 more for:

- The "best" ANC in the market (in quotations because it's only marginally better than the XM4s/QCs but still measurably so)
- Better build quality
- Sound quality that is the same/better than the XM4s/QCs
- The style
- The Apple brand and integration with other Apple products

Apple has a long history of shocking consumers with seemingly high prices, and I don't see how this initial price shock is any different than:

- The release of the original Airpods (still remember co-workers laughing that I paid $170 for them-- now they all own a pair)
- The "high" prices of iPhones relative to "similar" android phones that were a constant talking point back in 2010-2014
- The release of the $100 Apple pencil (gen 2 now 30% more expensive at $129, no one bats an eye)

I know, it's easy to look back and say something like, "oh yeah but these products were clearly worth it." But hindsight is 20/20, and we've been around the block too often to be surprised again. In 2 years people are going to be saying the same thing about the APMs. Every tech YouTuber will have them on their desk in their videos. APMs will be on Christmas lists, not XM4s. Then Gen 2 will be released and the focus will be on new features, not the price, and Apple's dominance over the XM4s/QCs will be cemented.

The simple fact is that these things are flying off the shelves, and although supply constraints have a lot to do with the current 12-14 week ship times, no one can deny that the demand is there. For the most part, if people can afford them, they'll buy them. Can't call it overpriced if people are willing to pay...

 

[Apple_Robert]

$550 is a fair price for those who are willing to pay the full price. That doesn’t mean other individuals can’t state that for them, the product is overpriced for the build quality and what it offers.

I don’t believe you can say it is a fair price for all when everyone is not buying the product.

 

[cycling_pete]

$550 is a fair price for those who are willing to pay the full price. That doesn’t mean other individuals can’t state that for them, the product is overpriced for what the build quality and what it offers.

I don’t believe you can say it is a fair price for all when everyone is not buying the product.

I agree with this, and should have been more precise in my definition of "fair." I mean to say that when the dust settles, most consumers who are in the market for wireless ANC headphones will prefer the $550 APM to the $300-350 XM4s. And that includes many who are currently saying that the APMs are overpriced.

 

[cardfan]

I agree with this, and should have been more precise in my definition of "fair." I mean to say that when the dust settles, most consumers who are in the market for wireless ANC headphones will prefer the $550 APM to the $300-350 XM4s. And that includes many who are currently saying that the APMs are overpriced.

Glad I’m not most consumers.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I agree with this, and should have been more precise in my definition of "fair." I mean to say that when the dust settles, most consumers who are in the market for wireless ANC headphones will prefer the $550 APM to the $300-350 XM4s. And that includes many who are currently saying that the APMs are overpriced.

That may be the case as the months go on. I agree that it will be interesting to see what happens.

Besides the price, one of the obstacles for the headphones is the lack of any water resistance, especially when they are marketed with many things including the new Fitness+.

 

[LongWayHome]

The simple fact is that these things are flying off the shelves, and although supply constraints have a lot to do with the current 12-14 week ship times, no one can deny that the demand is there. For the most part, if people can afford them, they'll buy them. Can't call it overpriced if people are willing to pay...

These absolutely aren't "flying off the shelves." I know some people love to claim "Apple was surprised by the demand" as a way to show how incredible the sales are, but the fact is that supply of these is extremely low. Apple releases small quantities to gauge the market and then builds up inventory based on what demand looks like. I don't understand how anyone thinks that a company as large as Apple seemingly misjudges demand for every single product they release. They don't, this is all done with purpose.

And if you need proof of that look only to the Homepod. It sold out when it was released in 2018 and overall sales of the device were miserably low and ultimately forced Apple to do something they rarely do, lower the price.

The other evidence pointing to this is eBay. There are currently 900+ listings for Airpods Max from buyers who are trying to cash in on low inventory by Apple with a significant markup.

 

[quagmire]

These absolutely aren't "flying off the shelves." I know some people love to claim "Apple was surprised by the demand" as a way to show how incredible the sales are, but the fact is that supply of these is extremely low. Apple releases small quantities to gauge the market and then builds up inventory based on what demand looks like. I don't understand how anyone thinks that a company as large as Apple seemingly misjudges demand for every single product they release. They don't, this is all done with purpose.

And if you need proof of that look only to the Homepod. It sold out when it was released in 2018 and overall sales of the device were miserably low and ultimately forced Apple to do something they rarely do, lower the price.

The other evidence pointing to this is eBay. There are currently 900+ listings for Airpods Max from buyers who are trying to cash in on low inventory by Apple with a significant markup.

Overall I agree with this. This has become a marketing 101 tactic for Apple. " They sold out within 30 minutes!" drives the perception it is a hot item and creates the illusion it is something you want. While having the side benefit of gauging demand and adjusting from there.

The ONLY thing unusual about the Airpods Max launch is the fact when that supply ran out, the times slipped to 12-14 weeks fairly quickly( heck I don't think I have ever seen an Apple product get that backordered) which tells me Apple does anticipate the product to be a low volume product overall once the launch rush subsides. Looks like Apple has made a small adjustment as they are now estimating a mid-February delivery for black/silver models, but I don't expect the Max to be as popular in its intended market as the regular Airpods or Pro's.

This is speaking as a person who has one waiting for me at an Apple Store tomorrow.

 

[Dbsr87]

The problem with the price in Canada is that they’re charging way above the actual conversion rate.

They are 900 dollars after taxes which is ridiculous. Not many people are going to buy these here at that price.

 

[Dammit Cubs]

I think the definition of fair should be defined by the market. I think people do not realize there are headphones MUCH more expensive than these so yes, it's a bit on the high end of the pricing scale when you compare them to other ANC headphones but if the price doesn't match the consumer's expectations - that should be shown in the sales volume and this should be advantageous to Sony and Bose as their sales should INCREASE.

At the end of the day, company is trying to reach a specific margin profit for their product. They priced them at 550 because they struck a price between what consumers might be able to pay and their profit value.

Sound is also not linear - for double the price, you don't get double the sound. That's not how it works in the audio word. there is a diminish returns once you go higher and higher.

it truly a preference. Once thing for sure: the spatial audio is SIGNIFICANTLY better than with it off in stereo to the point where my Full audiophile 1000+ setup sounds worse when watching content specifically for it. I don't know what that value is, but that is something other competitors cannot do if you are in the apple eco system.

 

[cycling_pete]

These absolutely aren't "flying off the shelves." I know some people love to claim "Apple was surprised by the demand" as a way to show how incredible the sales are, but the fact is that supply of these is extremely low. Apple releases small quantities to gauge the market and then builds up inventory based on what demand looks like. I don't understand how anyone thinks that a company as large as Apple seemingly misjudges demand for every single product they release. They don't, this is all done with purpose.

And if you need proof of that look only to the Homepod. It sold out when it was released in 2018 and overall sales of the device were miserably low and ultimately forced Apple to do something they rarely do, lower the price.

The other evidence pointing to this is eBay. There are currently 900+ listings for Airpods Max from buyers who are trying to cash in on low inventory by Apple with a significant markup.

I'm not denying a supply constraint, but I do take issue with your comparison of current 12-14 week delay of the APMs to the 2-4 week MAX delays for other Apple products on launch. You point out the HomePod as an example, but from what I remember, its "sellout" was a week or two delay, not a 3 month backorder.

As for the resells on eBay for hefty markups, I happen to interpret that as a likely sign of excess demand in addition to limited supply.

Of course, we don't know just how severe the supply constraint is, but do I think the massive interest in the product on forums like this and YouTube (just look at how well MKHBD's reaction video did), plus the ~2.5 month extra delay compared to other launches is indicative of high demand.

 

[Abazigal]

An “audiophile” reviewer has this to say.

Apple AirPods Max Review: The Audiophile's Perspective – In-Ear Fidelity

An in-depth, audio-focused review of Apple's newest flagship headphone, the AirPods Max.

crinacle.com

Yeah, I know. $500 is pretty much chump change to the ballers of the headphone hobby. For some, $500 is only enough to pay for the amplifier that powers their $1,500 headphone.

I lol’ed.

 

[LongWayHome]

I'm not denying a supply constraint, but I do take issue with your comparison of current 12-14 week delay of the APMs to the 2-4 week MAX delays for other Apple products on launch. You point out the HomePod as an example, but from what I remember, its "sellout" was a week or two delay, not a 3 month backorder.

As for the resells on eBay for hefty markups, I happen to interpret that as a likely sign of excess demand in addition to limited supply.

Of course, we don't know just how severe the supply constraint is, but do I think the massive interest in the product on forums like this and YouTube (just look at how well MKHBD's reaction video did), plus the ~2.5 month extra delay compared to other launches is indicative of high demand.

The 12-14 week delay is simply longer right now due to the fact that the Pandemic has put more supply constraints on Apple's manufacturers. While the timeline is longer due to that, everything else by Apple here is planned well ahead of the launch.

Secondly, eBay hefty markups happen with every single new launch of an Apple product. This is some people's job to buy out as many of these devices they can because they know Apple's game here and know that people will pay a big markup to get these items early.

As far as interest, I agree that all you need to do is in fact look at MKHD's AirPods Max videos. His initial take on them got 10 Million views. Why? Because Apple out of nowhere launched very expensive wireless headphones. But if you then look at his actual review of the headphones a few days later it only got 4Million hits, which is the same amount of hits his homepod review got. So once the initial interest was gone, views stabilized and leveled off. Point being that MacRumors and YouTube are a meaningless subset of the population that in no way is any type of predictor of sales.

Apple knows what they are doing and they plan things down to the tiniest of minute details with every product launch.

 

[cycling_pete]

The 12-14 week delay is simply longer right now due to the fact that the Pandemic has put more supply constraints on Apple's manufacturers. While the timeline is longer due to that, everything else by Apple here is planned well ahead of the launch.

Secondly, eBay hefty markups happen with every single new launch of an Apple product. This is some people's job to buy out as many of these devices they can because they know Apple's game here and know that people will pay a big markup to get these items early.

As far as interest, I agree that all you need to do is in fact look at MKHD's AirPods Max videos. His initial take on them got 10 Million views. Why? Because Apple out of nowhere launched very expensive wireless headphones. But if you then look at his actual review of the headphones a few days later it only got 4Million hits, which is the same amount of hits his homepod review got. So once the initial interest was gone, views stabilized and leveled off. Point being that MacRumors and YouTube are a meaningless subset of the population that in no way is any type of predictor of sales.

Apple knows what they are doing and they plan things down to the tiniest of minute details with every product launch.

"12-14 week delay is simply longer right now due to the fact that the Pandemic..." -- Apple has released many other products during the pandemic, none of which had 12-14 week wait times.

"But if you then look at his actual review of the headphones a few days later it only got 4Million hits, which is the same amount of hits his homepod review got." -- The HomePod review has 4.2 million views after 2 years while the APM has 4.4 million views after 3 days. The HomePod Mini has 3.3 million views after 1 month. Again, I believe that comparing this to the HomePod release is unwarranted.


"Point being that MacRumors and YouTube are a meaningless subset of the population that in no way is any type of predictor of sales." -- Youtube/MacRumors interest is certainly a good predictor of consumer interest. Barring cases where interest is high precisely because the product is terrible, I would say that Youtube/MacRumors hits are positively correlated with sales (although I agree that it can be a rough measure).

I agree with your sentiment that Apple knows what its doing with product launches. But they also don't have a crystal ball, and like every other company their launches can go better or worse than expected.

 

[Herrpod]

It’s a stupid price for headphones that aren’t anywhere close to being audiophile quality headphones.

 

[rkuo]

It’s a stupid price for headphones that aren’t anywhere close to being audiophile quality headphones.

As someone who has punted on plenty of Apple products lately due to them being overpriced, I’m not actually that put off by the price of these. If you ever buy a Bose or Sony headset and have to contend with their weird apps, unfixed bugs, etc ... I’d gladly pay a hundred or two more to get something that delivers all around as promised. That’s not to say that the AirPods Max do this quite yet, but Apple does pay attention to these things and they iterate well over time.

 

[bill-p]

An “audiophile” reviewer has this to say.

Apple AirPods Max Review: The Audiophile's Perspective – In-Ear Fidelity

An in-depth, audio-focused review of Apple's newest flagship headphone, the AirPods Max.

crinacle.com

I lol’ed.

Eh... he's right, though. $500 is chump change for some folks who are really into that hobby.

Not everything has to be a race to the bottom. Apple releasing a $550 headphone is both good news and bad news:

Good news: they're getting (semi?) serious about sound quality. This is evident with how their recent devices have focused more on sound quality and getting a more balanced sound signature. MacBook speakers still stomp on everything else.

Bad news: they'll probably price themselves out of most consumers' range.

But the bad news has always been there. This is the same company that has released a $5000 monitor, a $1000 stand for said monitor, a $6000 desktop computer to hook up to that monitor, and $700 wheels for that desktop computer.

I mean... seriously, it's actually not that "unexpected" that Apple is driving their prices up.

And considering the Airpods "Pro" is already $250, what's something that clearly "beats" a "pro" headphone like the "Airpods Pro" should cost? Evidently $550.

So I don't get why people keep whining about the price. There "is" a market for this. Just like how there "is" a market for the Stax SR-009S at $4300, or Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC at $5000, or the Raal Requisite SR1a for $3500.

If people are truly not willing to pay this much for these "stupid" headphones, this market would have died a long time ago.

 

[JasonHB]

It’s a stupid price for headphones that aren’t anywhere close to being audiophile quality headphones.

That is a stupid thing to say.

I have purchased AirPods and then AirPods Pro, neither of them are anywhere near class leading in sound quality, but they make up for this in other areas and the experience of them is exceptional. Always my go-to rather than the better sounding other options that I have.

I purchased Sony WH-1000XM3’s and then upgraded to the XM4’s and have been extremely impressed by them, stunning ANC and very good sound quality.

I paid £250 for the APP, I paid £350 for the XM4‘s and have not regretted either purchase.

I have now purchased AirPods Max, for £550 and could not be happier.

The build quality is way better than anything else I have tried or seen, the use of higher end materials, the overall fit and finish and typical Apple standard is incredible. As such, they are worth more than the XM4’s in that respect, they certainly cost more in raw material cost and construction.

The ANC is fabulous and virtually as good, if not better than the XM4’s in some areas. This however, is subjective and also very simply improved via software updates. This aspect will be a movable feast over the coming months. Is it worth extra money over the XM4’s, not at this stage, but it is at least as good so no disappointment. As has also been said in many reviews, the transparency mode is the best on the market.

The sound quality is also slightly subjective but I have been working in the high end hifi industry all of my life (I only say this to point out my angle on this). The very first thing that I did was to listen to my XM4’s using my favourite demo tracks to get an accurate baseline of performance and then I did the same on the AirPods Max. I couldn‘t have been more surprised. The APM’s, to me, are significantly better sounding and have a much more accurate sound signature than the XM4’s, more detail, better separation, wider sound stage, more accurate bass, better pitch reproduction and for vocals, they are sensational.

From a sound quality point of view, are they worth more than the XM4’s? To me, without a doubt, they are. Are they worth £200 more, to me, yes, but I can also see why other people might think it is a bit too much of a premium, but we are all entitle to our own opinions.

Then we move on to Spatial Audio, which is amazing and no other headphone at any price offers this. For movies, it is such a great experience and way better than anything I have ever heard from headphones before, it will always be my go to for films and TV viewing from now on. Absolutely love it and worth extra money over the XM4’s without any doubt.

I don‘t think you can’t compare the APM to “audiophile” headphones as you are not comparing like for like. The AirPods Max do so much more than any other “audiophile” headphone. Bluetooth, ANC, Spatial Audio, Transparency Mode, Computational Audio, seamless paIrving, the whole magical experience of automatic switching between your Apple devices. There is no ”audiophile” headphone anywhere, or at any price that will offer all of that.

You then come back to the more accurate comparison of things like the Sony, Bose, Sennheiser and the other wireless ANC headphones on the market. They also do not and cannot offer the same feature set as the APM’s. Again, people will argue that they are still not worth the extra money, but when you start to add up everything that you are getting with them, they do start to justify their price more and more.

I initially wasn’t bothered by the price, I also didn’t have very high expectations. I set out to purchase them in the hope that they would be at least as good as my XM4’s. Had they been on a par with those, for the extra build quality, the Apple eco-system and the design, I would have been satisfied with my purchase. However, now I have lived with them for a few days, I am so happy and think they are class leading and worth the extra money for sure.

Everyone elses opinion may differ, but you cannot make sweeping comments and pointless comparisons without considering all of the evidence and looking at the much bigger picture.

Jason

 

[LongWayHome]

"12-14 week delay is simply longer right now due to the fact that the Pandemic..." -- Apple has released many other products during the pandemic, none of which had 12-14 week wait times.

"But if you then look at his actual review of the headphones a few days later it only got 4Million hits, which is the same amount of hits his homepod review got." -- The HomePod review has 4.2 million views after 2 years while the APM has 4.4 million views after 3 days. The HomePod Mini has 3.3 million views after 1 month. Again, I believe that comparing this to the HomePod release is unwarranted.


"Point being that MacRumors and YouTube are a meaningless subset of the population that in no way is any type of predictor of sales." -- Youtube/MacRumors interest is certainly a good predictor of consumer interest. Barring cases where interest is high precisely because the product is terrible, I would say that Youtube/MacRumors hits are positively correlated with sales (although I agree that it can be a rough measure).

I agree with your sentiment that Apple knows what its doing with product launches. But they also don't have a crystal ball, and like every other company their launches can go better or worse than expected.

Apple releasing many other products during the pandemic has nothing to do with the fact that the 12-14 week wait time. That wait time has already dropped "magically" to 8 weeks for many of the colors and no one will actually be waiting 12-14 weeks for these headphones.

MacRumors is in no way a predictor of consumer interest in a product in any way. This is a fan site and represents a minute portion of the population. That isn't debatable. I will say YouTube can be more of a predictor, but also remember that Apple gave zero announcement on these Headphones and just threw them out there. Apple has some of the most popular products in the world and the name "Airpod" carries a lot of weight because its a popular brand name. People are interested in learning about the product but that doesn't really equate to big sales.

I'm not saying that Airpods Max aren't going to sell well. All I'm saying is that Apple knows exactly what they are doing in terms of supply chain. The wait period to get these isn't due to the fact that Apple was surprised by the demand and millions were bought. Its a calculated decision by them to gauge consumer demand, coupled with major supply chain issues due to the pandemic. But for anyone to just annoint these as "here to stay" due to the early sales is misguided. Yeah they are here to stay but it has nothing to do with early sales, and I wouldn't be suprised if Apple lowered the price of them due to lack of demand 6 months to a year down the road.

 

[MacModMachine]

$550 is a fair price for those who are willing to pay the full price. That doesn’t mean other individuals can’t state that for them, the product is overpriced for what the build quality and what it offers.

I don’t believe you can say it is a fair price for all when everyone is not buying the product.

i have both the xm4's and airpods max. the build quality of the max is the best i have seen in headphones in a longgg time. not even comparable to the xm4 build quality. they are far superior.

audio quality....thats another store. they are pretty much the same to me. noise cancelling is better on max for sure.

i like them...,the price hurts though.

 

[Macaday]

I think what a lot of people are not used to with higher end audio gear is diminishing returns. Double the price very rarely relates to double the performance in audio the higher up the chain you go. Some people pay $1000's for a cable that makes 2% difference in quality.

I'm not saying APM are 'high end' but in relation to Sony XM4's the improved build quality and a marginal increase in performance would normally have such a difference in price. In the general consumer audio market this isn't usually the case though so Apple are brave with their pricing strategy.

The APM fits just above general consumer and just below the start of the 'Audiophile' world so Apple have their work cut out to find the right market.

 

[MecPro]

How can $500 be the fair price, when 2 of the main challengers are below that price at the current point in time

 

[MacModMachine]

How can $500 be the fair price, when 2 of the main challengers are below that price at the current point in time

they are missing key factors in purchasing them. apple integration , apple quality. XM4's are trash for voice calls. build quality leaves alot to be desired too. i have both airpods max and xm4s and xm3's.

to some that slight difference is worth it. the integration for me alone is worth 200$ more.

 

[macnmac]

These absolutely aren't "flying off the shelves." I know some people love to claim "Apple was surprised by the demand" as a way to show how incredible the sales are, but the fact is that supply of these is extremely low. Apple releases small quantities to gauge the market and then builds up inventory based on what demand looks like. I don't understand how anyone thinks that a company as large as Apple seemingly misjudges demand for every single product they release. They don't, this is all done with purpose.

And if you need proof of that look only to the Homepod. It sold out when it was released in 2018 and overall sales of the device were miserably low and ultimately forced Apple to do something they rarely do, lower the price.

The other evidence pointing to this is eBay. There are currently 900+ listings for Airpods Max from buyers who are trying to cash in on low inventory by Apple with a significant markup.

your entire argument is faulty, you first claim is supported but nothing more than a guess... as of right now, you have no idea the amount that apple has actually produced so unless you work at apple or you know the actual production numbers you are doing nothing but guessing

you are comparing a pair of headphones to a at home speaker, two completely different consumer base... headphones have a very general appeal and is much broader than a home speaker, which is a very small and niche market segment

your last piece of "evidence" points to the amount on ebay, thats great, if you assume they made 1000 of them... or even 10000... but again, you have no idea how many were produced so without that 900 can be most or it can be .01% of the total allocation...

this is also not to say that your assumptions are wrong or anything like that but your claim is as good as the complete opposite claim that these are the best selling headphones in the history of man...

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I think they are way overpriced for what they are but we are immensely lucky that the headphone market is very saturated with very good products to suit most budgets. I can’t really see what the AirPods Pro Max offer to set them apart from some of the competition that are considerably cheaper like Bose and Sony? There is a lot of commentary about their design but for me I don’t think they are particularly pretty whereas others are not. Headphones are headphones.

 

[MPclk2006]

$550 is a fair price for those who are willing to pay the full price. That doesn’t mean other individuals can’t state that for them, the product is overpriced for what the build quality and what it offers.

I don’t believe you can say it is a fair price for all when everyone is not buying the product.

Agreed. They may be fairly priced for those that need want that product. To me that’s a very expensive headphones.