torn between air and pro (regarding thermals)

[phos07]

After the review embargo lifted, I watched tons of reviews, but I'm still torn.

For context, I am a student in need of a new machine, and I will buy the M1 models. I do video editing sometimes, but probably nothing intensive. I barely game, so that factor isn't a deciding factor for me. Other than that I do everyday tasks. I am coming from a mid-2011 iMac, so any would be a significant upgrade for me.

Based on the benchmarks and reviews, it seems like the air is the way to go for me, considering that the pro is $300 more and performs quite similar to the air. Before M1 was announced (and before I read the rumors of arm macs coming), I was planning to go for the pro due to the thermal issues that seemed to haunt the air. With the M1, the thermals seems to be less of an issue, but...

The reviews didn't (or couldn't) address my main concern with the heat, which is the CPU temps due to the lack of support for the sensors (I guess). The external temperatures were a lot cooler than the previous gen (maybe about 5 degrees C), but I fear the internals still could reach a good temperature. I plan to use the machine as long as possible, so I definitely want to avoid the CPU being burned. As for the pro, it probably would mitigate any damage from the heat due to the active cooling, but many reviews pointed out they could barely hear the fan, making me wonder if the fans only kick in full speed after the CPU starts to heat up quite a bit instead of maintaining the CPU temperature cool from beginning to end. In that case I might as well buy the air, but this is all speculation, so I'm still hesitant to make the final decision. Hopefully we get some numbers of the internal temperatures, as I aim to place my order within a few days.

I would very much appreciate it if you have any comments, suggestions, opinions, or clarifications on this. Thanks!

 

[Taz Mangus]

This review goes over temps and throttling of the M1 in the MacBook Air. Maybe it will help.

 

[torncanvas]

If you regularly export 4K videos that are minutes long and/or have heavy effects, which means heavy load past that 8 minute-ish mark, you’ll notice moderate thermal throttling (certainly less than on Intel) and it’ll be inconvenient. Otherwise it’s my understanding you won’t.

While it remains to be seen if the M1 is susceptible to thermal wear, the history of it at least has a very promising track record in the A-series mobile chips. I’ve never heard of that being an issue for those chips.

 

[phos07]

This review goes over temps and throttling of the M1 in the MacBook Air. Maybe it will help.

I did watch that review and the next review comparing the two most recent air models. Actually that is the review that made me wonder how hot the air gets, because the external temperatures seemed to be quite similar (especially around the 8 minute mark in the intel vs M1 comparison review by Max Tech). Other than that, performance looked great and the air is quite compelling over the pro.

...

While it remains to be seen if the M1 is susceptible to thermal wear, the history of it at least has a very promising track record in the A-series mobile chips. I’ve never heard of that being an issue for those chips.

If that is the case, then by all means the air is the way to go for me.

...and thanks for the reply!

 

[hellosil]

You probably would have mentioned it if you would, but if apart from not gaming and no daily heavy video editing you also don't run very heavy simulation software for your studies and don't do very heavy image editing, I'm expecting you are going to have a truly great experience with the M1 MacBook Air.

Are you going to use this machine everyday full time?
Don't under estimate the negative impact working on a laptop can have on your posture.

It sounds to me the M1 MacBook Air is going to be perfectly fine for your app usage needs.
You could use the money you save versus buying the M1 MacBook Pro to buy an external screen.
Your back, neck and feeling of well-being / happiness will thank you in 3 years.

If you are coming from an iMac you probably need a bit of time to getting used to working on a smaller screen.

I'm writing this from a 15" 2016 MacBook Pro (I do video edit almost daily) and I just bought an external screen as my back, neck and energy level where begging for it.

 

[phos07]

...
You could use the money you save versus buying the M1 MacBook Pro to buy an external screen.
Your back, neck and feeling of well-being / happiness will thank you in 3 years.

If you are coming from an iMac you probably need a bit of time to getting used to working on a smaller screen.
...

I'd prefer desktop over laptop, and I would choose the mini out of the three models, but I do need the portability once I move near school campus (hopefully that happens soon). I didn't think about getting an external display; I would totally do that when I'm at home!

I did use a 14" chromebook the school provided, so hopefully I can adjust to the 13". I've already held off upgrading for a year, and that only happened because of covid, so i can't wait for the rumored 14" which is unfortunate.

but thanks for the advice! I want to wait a day or two more, but it seems like the air is the way to go for me.

 

[jdb8167]

I don't generally edit video but I did compress a 1.5 hour DVD using the Beta Universal Binary Handbrake to H.265 video with high quality settings. It was more or less 1:1 ratio for compression time. After about 20 minutes I could feel some warmth on the bottom of the M1 MacBook Air but nothing excessive. It finished in about 1.5 hours and the heat never got worse than at the 20 minute mark. And it used about 45% of the battery.

 

[smoking monkey]

I've watched most of the vids as well and based on those and comments here it seems heat isn't an issue for the M1 Air like it was for previous Airs. But at this stage we don't truly know.
Personally, I reckon it'll be fine.

 

[seadragon]

I’m considering the new MBA. I just wonder how the fanless model will age when it comes to future MacOS versions. Will the processor be pushed harder and cause thermals to increase I wonder? A machine with a fan can at least compensate. Then again, maybe it won’t be an issue.

 

[jdb8167]

I’m considering the new MBA. I just wonder how the fanless model will age when it comes to future MacOS versions. Will the processor be pushed harder and cause thermals to increase I wonder? A machine with a fan can at least compensate. Then again, maybe it won’t be an issue.

That would be quite the failure on Apple's part. I would expect issues like that to worked out in Beta.

 

[Chompineer]

I’m considering the new MBA. I just wonder how the fanless model will age when it comes to future MacOS versions. Will the processor be pushed harder and cause thermals to increase I wonder? A machine with a fan can at least compensate. Then again, maybe it won’t be an issue.

By the time an OS alone is pushing a machine that hard, it will be quite far past obsolete.

 

[deeddawg]

The reviews didn't (or couldn't) address my main concern with the heat, which is the CPU temps due to the lack of support for the sensors (I guess). ... I fear the internals still could reach a good temperature. I plan to use the machine as long as possible, so I definitely want to avoid the CPU being burned.

Think about this...

Even if you had sensors to tell you the internal CPU temps what would you do with that data?

What would you compare it to, and on what basis would it be a valid comparison?

Has heat-related CPU failure been an issue with other modern laptops? Not talking about folks overclocking, where they're busting past the designed in safeguards, but common everyday laptops where things are engineered to prevent the CPUs from going beyond their designed sustained temperature levels.

Maybe it's just me but this seems not to be something to be concerned about.

 

[jdb8167]

Think about this...

Even if you had sensors to tell you the internal CPU temps what would you do with that data?

What would you compare it to, and on what basis would it be a valid comparison?

Has heat-related CPU failure been an issue with other modern laptops? Not talking about folks overclocking, where they're busting past the designed in safeguards, but common everyday laptops where things are engineered to prevent the CPUs from going beyond their designed sustained temperature levels.

Maybe it's just me but this seems not to be something to be concerned about.

Personally, I'm quite sure I won't have this first generation M1 MacBook Air long enough for any aging issues to happen but I would be surprised if Apple hasn't done their homework and simulated aging the machine under load. They should last easily past 3 years since that is Apple's extended warranty and I would guess limited failures past 5 years.

 

[Sean869]

I have a an M1 MacBook Air (8core cpu/8core gpu) It never seems to get warm at all. I ran both geekbenck 5 benchmarks followed by cinebench and I could't feel any heat coming from it at all. I even checked the underneath where the "heat spreader" is located and it was only slightly warm to the touch.

 

[wyatterp]

You absolutely do not need to worry about longevity due to "the CPU being burned" - this fear about CPUs running at their Tjunction-MAX spec temp for periods of time has NEVER been an issue. Largely this is because almost all personal computers never have a high enough duty cycle for running at 100C is ever going to reduce your effective machine life.

These chips are designed to run hot, that's the point - and all the protection built in place now (throttling) prevent you from burning a CPU.

 

[Ocnetgeek]

After the review embargo lifted, I watched tons of reviews, but I'm still torn.

For context, I am a student in need of a new machine, and I will buy the M1 models. I do video editing sometimes, but probably nothing intensive. I barely game, so that factor isn't a deciding factor for me. Other than that I do everyday tasks. I am coming from a mid-2011 iMac, so any would be a significant upgrade for me.

Based on the benchmarks and reviews, it seems like the air is the way to go for me, considering that the pro is $300 more and performs quite similar to the air. Before M1 was announced (and before I read the rumors of arm macs coming), I was planning to go for the pro due to the thermal issues that seemed to haunt the air. With the M1, the thermals seems to be less of an issue, but...

The reviews didn't (or couldn't) address my main concern with the heat, which is the CPU temps due to the lack of support for the sensors (I guess). The external temperatures were a lot cooler than the previous gen (maybe about 5 degrees C), but I fear the internals still could reach a good temperature. I plan to use the machine as long as possible, so I definitely want to avoid the CPU being burned. As for the pro, it probably would mitigate any damage from the heat due to the active cooling, but many reviews pointed out they could barely hear the fan, making me wonder if the fans only kick in full speed after the CPU starts to heat up quite a bit instead of maintaining the CPU temperature cool from beginning to end. In that case I might as well buy the air, but this is all speculation, so I'm still hesitant to make the final decision. Hopefully we get some numbers of the internal temperatures, as I aim to place my order within a few days.

I would very much appreciate it if you have any comments, suggestions, opinions, or clarifications on this. Thanks!

Picked up an M1 Air last night and have not felt it heat up at all so far. Istat Menus has not been updated for all the new Mac Sensors yet so the only Temp I get is the SSD but I have felt the chassis at times when I am doing work and I have not felt it get warm at all so far. Last night I was downloading the Big Sur update and copying 200 Gb of data from an external HD to the Laptop and I could see it was pretty busy but I never saw the SSD temp even get to 100 degrees Fahrenheit. It has remained cool to the touch for every thing I have done so far.

 

[Ocnetgeek]

You probably would have mentioned it if you would, but if apart from not gaming and no daily heavy video editing you also don't run very heavy simulation software for your studies and don't do very heavy image editing, I'm expecting you are going to have a truly great experience with the M1 MacBook Air.

Are you going to use this machine everyday full time?
Don't under estimate the negative impact working on a laptop can have on your posture.

It sounds to me the M1 MacBook Air is going to be perfectly fine for your app usage needs.
You could use the money you save versus buying the M1 MacBook Pro to buy an external screen.
Your back, neck and feeling of well-being / happiness will thank you in 3 years.

If you are coming from an iMac you probably need a bit of time to getting used to working on a smaller screen.

I'm writing this from a 15" 2016 MacBook Pro (I do video edit almost daily) and I just bought an external screen as my back, neck and energy level where begging for it.

But remember you still have the option to connect it to an external monitor and keyboard for times when you need to spend long times on it. I have my air connected to an external keyboard, monitor, mouse, and peripherals through a Caldigit TS3+ and it is working great

 

[Runs For Fun]

I would say you'd probably be fine with the Air. It doesn't sound like you're doing a lot of prolonged CPU intensive tasks. I don't think you'll have to worry about the temperature.

 

[Moka Akashiya]

Everyone in this thread still saying about external temperature. Would be very nice if some people will post cpu temperature after ~20+ minutes of heavy load (rendering / gaming).
Seems like you can get temp with `sudo powermetrics` (source)

 

[James_C]

Everyone in this thread still saying about external temperature. Would be very nice if some people will post cpu temperature after ~20+ minutes of heavy load (rendering / gaming).

I think the problem is the apps that monitor cpu temperature have not been updated yet for the new M1 Macs, which is why a lot of YouTube reviewers are using temperature guns.

 

[deeddawg]

Everyone in this thread still saying about external temperature. Would be very nice if some people will post cpu temperature after ~20+ minutes of heavy load (rendering / gaming).
Seems like you can get temp with `sudo powermetrics` (source)

Just curious - what exactly will you do with that figure? What will you compare it to that would be a meaningful comparison, and what information would you expect to derive from that?

I think the problem is the apps that monitor cpu temperature have not been updated yet for the new M1 Macs, which is why a lot of YouTube reviewers are using temperature guns.

Perhaps. IMHO the thing I'm concerned with on a notebook/laptop computer is what the exterior is doing. That's the part that's under my palms and on my lap. I don't touch the CPU so its temperature is of no consequence to me - though I also make the assumption that the engineers designed the control circuitry to ensure the CPU doesn't operate at a detrimental temperature, and I make the further assumption that they probably know more about such matters than I do, so I don't second guess whatever that max operating temperature might be.

 

[phos07]

thanks for the clarifications and corrections about the CPU temperatures... it seems like it shouldn't be an issue. So ill guess i will go for the air this time. I'm excited! Hopefully someone learned something from this thread like I did.