Torn between MBP 2018 & Gaming Laptop

[frocco]

If I could get both, problem solved. But..
I got a deal at Best Buy yesterday for a 2799.00 MBP 400.00 off.
I have not yet opened it, I really want a gaming laptop, but am afraid I would miss OSX.
I do some web development that I could do in Windows using AMPPS or others.
I see a lot of negative comments on the price paid for Mac and it's hardware as compared to windows.
For me it is a tough choice. Been a Mac use for a long time, but work on Windows at work.
Have Apple TV and iPhone.

Looking for advise. If you need more info, please ask.

Looking at new MSI and Razer
Thanks
[doublepost=1550238887][/doublepost]Found this on youtube

 

[velocityg4]

You make no mention of which MBP you bought. Detailed specs would be good to know. Some of the 15" models should be decent for gaming.

Really knowing your portable needs and total budget would be useful. As you could get a Macbook Air or low end MBP for your Mac uses you mentioned. Then build a nice Windows gaming desktop for your budget.

If it's just either or. I'd say make a list of pros vs cons. The Windows laptop will beat it on performance, price, options, upgrade-ability and/or most any hardware criteria. All the Macbook Pro really has going for it is Mac OS. Which if you are up for tinkering and carefully selecting a laptop you could do a hackintosh.

How much money is OS X worth to you? That's what you are paying for when you buy a Mac. If you pay an extra $400 or an extra $3,000 for the performance you need in a Mac versus what you could get with Windows. You are paying that extra $400 or $3,000 just to use Mac OS X.

Also how much are you willing to compromise? If Apple doesn't offer the performance you want. How much are you willing to sacrifice to run OS X.

 

[c0ppo]

For Web development get MBP 13", no need for high end specs. Even Macbook 12" is good enough for web dev.
Use the rest of the money to build a great desktop PC + great monitor.

That way you can hook up your mbp with monitor when you do web dev, and use gaming PC for gaming needs.
Best of both worlds, since no laptop can match a desktop when it comes to gaming.

2800$ MBP is a total overkill for web dev

 

[Queen6]

I eventually switched to W10 in 2016 due to Apple not being capable of delivering. Surface Book was never a problem, until projects demand grew exponentially so another solution was sought. Portable Workstation looked to be the only solution, after a chance conversation I gave a gaming notebook a shot for my professional needs, why not

Today I'm on my primary notebook an ROG Strix GL703GS (8750H, 32GB RAM @2666, GTX 1070, NVME SSD & SSHD) it literally crushes all I put it to work on, never blinks, never stutters.

Prime 95 Small FFT stress test & Cinebench R15 running simultaneously, CPU temperature stabilised at 75C with an ambient of 25C. No thermal throttling, unlocking Turbo limits increases performance again up to a sustained 65W, beyond this point the chassis is not capable of sustained cooling of the CPU (3.9GHz @65W), however typical Turbo Boost activity up to 90W presents no issue.

FWIW Cinebench only scored 1104CB with Prime95 running at the same time, admittedly it had 8 open desktops of work to deal with too

My next notebook will undoubtedly be another gamer as they are designed with performance in mind and generally deliver. The Strix is a 17.3" nor a heavyweight. Now we have the the ROG Zephyrus S (GX701GX) & MSI GS75 Stealth which are not much larger than a typical 15" notebook, nor overly compromised (crippled) like the MBP.

Gaming is what they are designed for, although they most definitely re-role as Portable Workstations with ease, If FPS is the weapon of choice such notebook don't disappoint with a full fat GTX 1070 on board. I only play casually and when I feel like, equally the Strix delivers, from F.E.A.R to Witcher 3, and it most definitely can play Crysis

I used the Mac for over 20 years, however Apple slowly but surely killed the "passion" when I can put the likes of the Strix in my bag and just go is a massive productivity gain. I work globally, and now I don't need to compromise to be mobile.

I need my hardware to work with me, not work against me, looking nice simply isn't good enough, let alone the issues that infest the current MBP; reliability & performance. To date the Strix has never crashed, however I did take time to set it up to my needs. ROG are confident; 3 year national warranty, 2 year international warranty. ironically I've had more positive comment about my gaming notebooks than any Mac I've ever owned and I'm in my mid 50's

Coming from the Mac the performance of notebooks such as the Strix is impressive to say the very least

Q-6

 

[frocco]

I did mention the base 2799.00 with 400.00 off, so 2399.00
i7, 16m, 512ssd

 

[Thysanoptera]

For $2400 you could pick up the new Razer Blade 15 with RTX2060 and enjoy 3-4 times the FPS in the same form factor with upgradeable RAM and SSD. And "Mercury White" chassis color which looks like throwback to pre-unibody Macbooks/Powerbooks. Or downgrade to last year Windows gaming laptop and get yourself also for the same price a new basic MBA for testing the code in MacOS/iOS, couch surfing or just the times when you feel nostalgic about MacOS.

 

[Never mind]

I did mention the base 2799.00 with 400.00 off, so 2399.00
i7, 16m, 512ssd

Unless I'm mistaken, that's not including tax, and AppleCare correct ?

 

[frocco]

Yes, that is correct.

 

[1BadManVan]

With all these awesome options out now for windows gaming laptops and the much better value you get from them, you would have to REALLY be invested into the Mac OS to pay the massive Apple tax these days.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Just get the W10 beast of your preference and for your Apple fix enjoy it from a different perspective with say a 2016/17 refurb rMB as your go to portable svelte companion device in a few months time

 

[rayriceroni00]

Why not just build or buy a gaming desktop? Will you be gaming on the road?

 

[skaertus]

Why not just build or buy a gaming desktop? Will you be gaming on the road?

Agree.

I had a gaming laptop once. A Sager model, very fast and powerful, great value. Never again I will buy another one.

It was heavy and cumbersome to carry around. Lots of heat, the parts were not premium, bad battery life. And it was expensive and not as fast as a desktop PC.

In the end, I came to the conclusion that I do not need it. All I need is a laptop that can handle my stuff while I am on the go. I do not need an incredible fast machine nor a dedicated video card while on the run. I need a quick processor, a good amount of RAM, a fast SSD, and a nice keyboard and trackpad, a good screen. I need it to be light so I can carry around easily. A great battery life. A small form factor so I can use on a cramped seat in an airplane. If it is not very expensive, that is even better as I do not have to worry so much about it being stolen or dropped. That is what I need from a laptop, and a MacBook, a MacBook Air, or a 13-inch MacBook Pro deliver all that (except for the not expensive part). Other laptops from other manufacturers also deliver that. But a gaming laptop does not.

Then I like having a desktop, for some reasons. I like keeping my laptop in my bag and having another computer to use at home. Also, I like the ergonomics of a keyboard, a mouse and a great large monitor. And I can put as much power as I could possibly need on it, and it will still be cheaper than a much more expensive laptop. I can have an insanely fast processor, a mind-blowing video card, and obscene amounts of RAM and storage.

Both computers (the laptop and the desktop) will serve my needs much better than a gaming laptop. And it is quite possible that both of them cost even less than one gaming laptop.

I see no reason to buy a gaming laptop unless you need all that power while on the go, or if you have nowhere else to put a desktop. If you do not have any specific reason for having one, then give it a second thought.

 

[rayriceroni00]

Agree with the above post. A laptop for gaming is like buying a compact convertible to haul around building materials. You can do it, but obviously there are better, cheaper options.

 

[Queen6]

Agree.

I had a gaming laptop once. A Sager model, very fast and powerful, great value. Never again I will buy another one.

It was heavy and cumbersome to carry around. Lots of heat, the parts were not premium, bad battery life. And it was expensive and not as fast as a desktop PC.

In the end, I came to the conclusion that I do not need it. All I need is a laptop that can handle my stuff while I am on the go. I do not need an incredible fast machine nor a dedicated video card while on the run. I need a quick processor, a good amount of RAM, a fast SSD, and a nice keyboard and trackpad, a good screen. I need it to be light so I can carry around easily. A great battery life. A small form factor so I can use on a cramped seat in an airplane. If it is not very expensive, that is even better as I do not have to worry so much about it being stolen or dropped. That is what I need from a laptop, and a MacBook, a MacBook Air, or a 13-inch MacBook Pro deliver all that (except for the not expensive part). Other laptops from other manufacturers also deliver that. But a gaming laptop does not.

Then I like having a desktop, for some reasons. I like keeping my laptop in my bag and having another computer to use at home. Also, I like the ergonomics of a keyboard, a mouse and a great large monitor. And I can put as much power as I could possibly need on it, and it will still be cheaper than a much more expensive laptop. I can have an insanely fast processor, a mind-blowing video card, and obscene amounts of RAM and storage.

Both computers (the laptop and the desktop) will serve my needs much better than a gaming laptop. And it is quite possible that both of them cost even less than one gaming laptop.

I see no reason to buy a gaming laptop unless you need all that power while on the go, or if you have nowhere else to put a desktop. If you do not have any specific reason for having one, then give it a second thought.

Times have most definitely changed, and that performance on the go is very handy for those of us with need, sob 3Kg and you'll still have an extremely performant machine...

Q-6

 

[rayriceroni00]

Times have most definitely changed, and that performance on the go is very handy for those of us with need, sob 3Kg and you'll still have an extremely performant machine...

Q-6

Have times really changed? You’re still boxed in on a 15-17” screen. You still need a real mouse and probably a real keyboard unless you want the carpal tunnel inducing built in keyboards. You still need AC power since gaming nukes your battery. Do the new laptops still scream with fans when gaming?

 

[Thysanoptera]

Agree with the above post. A laptop for gaming is like buying a compact convertible to haul around building materials. You can do it, but obviously there are better, cheaper options.

I'm quite sure the 8700k based tower I build a year ago is going to be my last desktop ever for general use, I will still use them for my racing rig and home servers obviously. But a laptop with unlocked CPU and eGPU is capable of providing similar performance. Look at @Queen6 benchmarks above. On my desktop, with 8700k running at 4.3 GHz pulling stable 95W I'm getting 2:24 min / 3,362,000 rays in Corona, 1350 in Cinebench. That's 12% improvement in sustained load or 6% in burst load from a water cooled full tower gaming rig over over a fairly portable laptop. With eGPU you're loosing 20% or so. Now if you need a laptop anyway because of travelling, buying desktop suddenly doesn't make sense.
[doublepost=1550339361][/doublepost]

Have times really changed? You’re still boxed in on a 15-17” screen. You still need a real mouse and probably a real keyboard unless you want the carpal tunnel inducing built in keyboards. You still need AC power since gaming nukes your battery. Do the new laptops still scream with fans when gaming?

You can dock it with a single cable to multiple monitors, GPU, power, keyboard, mouse, and anything else you want. And while gaming with eGPU it will be exactly as loud as the desktop.

 

[rayriceroni00]

You can dock it with a single cable to multiple monitors, GPU, power, keyboard, mouse, and anything else you want. And while gaming with eGPU it will be exactly as loud as the desktop.

So at that point you’re basically at a desktop setup while spending far more money.

To each their own I guess.

 

[skaertus]

Times have most definitely changed, and that performance on the go is very handy for those of us with need, sob 3Kg and you'll still have an extremely performant machine...

Q-6

Times have definitely changed, and now laptops offer decent performance in a smaller package. Gamer laptops became smaller. And thin laptops became usable. In the past, laptops weighing 1kg or less were very expensive and also very slow. These days, things are different, and you can get whatever you want, with far fewer compromises.

So, If you really need this performance on the go, then this kind of laptop is really for you. But it probably is not suitable for most.

I like having great performance with me all the time, of course. But I also like carrying a small and light bag with me. A thin-and-light laptop weighing 1kg is much easier to carry around than a 2.5kg one. In the past, we did not even have the luxury to be able to carry around a sub-1kg laptop, as such things did not even exist, and now we have them. So, carrying around a heavier laptop is still a compromise of some sort, although it can make sense for some.

And now we can get over 10 hours of battery life of a laptop. If the laptop is a powerful beast with a dedicated video card, then it will hardly get as much. You can still squeeze some time out of a laptop like this, much more than in the past, but there are still compromises compared to what you can get with cheaper and lighter options.

For most people, a laptop + desktop combo is a much wiser choice than a gaming laptop. But you might well be an exception.

 

[Queen6]

Have times really changed? You’re still boxed in on a 15-17” screen. You still need a real mouse and probably a real keyboard unless you want the carpal tunnel inducing built in keyboards. You still need AC power since gaming nukes your battery. Do the new laptops still scream with fans when gaming?

Some newer 17" are close to a traditional 15" in size. I use mouse and trackpad as I would do with a desktop, keyboard's vary. AC power is generally ubiquitous, my own notebook can vary from dead silent to fairly loud depending on the use, equally a desktop simply isn't an option and barring the very high end gear such notebooks are not far behind desktop performance now with 8th Gen Hex cores and 10/20 series GPU's.

Like I said times have changed, this is a notebook that performs like a desktop, only it can be placed in a bag that I can take anywhere globally for work. GL703GS isn't the smallest 17.3" now, however it remains to be reasonably portable, is performant and importantly reliable.

I generally travel with two systems, one the heavy lifter the other, my on the go 2 in 1 which has decent battery life.

Q-6

 

[skaertus]

I'm quite sure the 8700k based tower I build a year ago is going to be my last desktop ever for general use, I will still use them for my racing rig and home servers obviously. But a laptop with unlocked CPU and eGPU is capable of providing similar performance. Look at @Queen6 benchmarks above. On my desktop, with 8700k running at 4.3 GHz pulling stable 95W I'm getting 2:24 min / 3,362,000 rays in Corona, 1350 in Cinebench. That's 12% improvement in sustained load or 6% in burst load from a water cooled full tower gaming rig over over a fairly portable laptop. With eGPU you're loosing 20% or so. Now if you need a laptop anyway because of travelling, buying desktop suddenly doesn't make sense.
[doublepost=1550339361][/doublepost]
You can dock it with a single cable to multiple monitors, GPU, power, keyboard, mouse, and anything else you want. And while gaming with eGPU it will be exactly as loud as the desktop.

Well, it depends. You can certainly get an eGPU. But that means that you are probably using a regular laptop (and not a gaming laptop) coupled with an external GPU. So, the laptop is not a gaming one. You can carry around the smaller and lighter laptop and use the eGPU when you need.

You probably will not want to carry the eGPU around with you (unless in some specific situations), as it would be heavy and perhaps not make any sense. So, in most cases, you would still be OK with a normal, non-gaming laptop while on the go, and use a beefier setup at home or when you need it.

And an eGPU is not for everybody. I live in Brazil and I have never find any eGPU for sale. All I could find were some kits to mount the eGPU. But they do not come very cheap. In addition, you would need a laptop with an interface that would support the eGPU, and would still have a performance hit.

So, while the eGPU may make sense for some, it may also not make sense for others.

 

[Queen6]

Well, it depends. You can certainly get an eGPU. But that means that you are probably using a regular laptop (and not a gaming laptop) coupled with an external GPU. So, the laptop is not a gaming one. You can carry around the smaller and lighter laptop and use the eGPU when you need.

You probably will not want to carry the eGPU around with you (unless in some specific situations), as it would be heavy and perhaps not make any sense. So, in most cases, you would still be OK with a normal, non-gaming laptop while on the go, and use a beefier setup at home or when you need it.

And an eGPU is not for everybody. I live in Brazil and I have never find any eGPU for sale. All I could find were some kits to mount the eGPU. But they do not come very cheap. In addition, you would need a laptop with an interface that would support the eGPU, and would still have a performance hit.

So, while the eGPU may make sense for some, it may also not make sense for others.

eGPU's made sense until Nvidia offered the 10 series GPU's as the mobile cards are not much slower then the desktop ones. Any powerful notebook will eat through the battery and an eGPU attached to a ultrabook will likely result in some level of CPU bottlenecking.

Mac's may be the exception as Apple doesn't offer a portable with a decent GPU, well until recently and then the pricing is laughable for what you get.

Desktops will always out perform notebooks, although the current generation of performance orientated notebooks are indeed very strong. Personally I prefer having in two portables once for performance and one for the day to day matters when on the go, which is mostly basic productivity based.

Q-6

 

[Thysanoptera]

eGPU's made sense until Nvidia offered the 10 series GPU's as the mobile cards are not much slower then the desktop ones.

Before 10 series there weren't really any eGPUs, some proprietary interface from Alienware, in last 2 years it took off with the popularity of TB3. But I'm going to use eGPU even on a laptop with rtx2080 just to avoid the noise and heat and leave more room for CPU. And actually using AMD card, the Xconnect just seems more mature than what Nvidia is offering. I’m not after absolute performance, rather something comfortable. Nvidia and AMD drivers can perfectly coexist on the same system.

So I have nothing against pairing decent gaming laptop with eGPU. Best of both worlds and no need to sync anything between two machines. Ideally, I would imagine external enclosure with multiple PCIe slots and drive brackets so that the laptop would essentially become desktop motherboard with CPU/RAM/startup disk that can be taken to go. But that would require more than 4 lanes we have now.

 

[skaertus]

eGPU's made sense until Nvidia offered the 10 series GPU's as the mobile cards are not much slower then the desktop ones. Any powerful notebook will eat through the battery and an eGPU attached to a ultrabook will likely result in some level of CPU bottlenecking.

Mac's may be the exception as Apple doesn't offer a portable with a decent GPU, well until recently and then the pricing is laughable for what you get.

Desktops will always out perform notebooks, although the current generation of performance orientated notebooks are indeed very strong. Personally I prefer having in two portables once for performance and one for the day to day matters when on the go, which is mostly basic productivity based.

Q-6

I have not tested the last generation of laptops. But given the power consumption of high-end video cards, I was under the impression that the mobile versions would be either far less powerful or consume a lot of energy (or both). Perhaps they just drain the battery...

 

[1BadManVan]

I have not tested the last generation of laptops. But given the power consumption of high-end video cards, I was under the impression that the mobile versions would be either far less powerful or consume a lot of energy (or both). Perhaps they just drain the battery...

The max-q versions are more for thermal management than power management. They all eat the battery when using for gaming, they switch to the on-board graphics for day to day usage to help with battery. But they have a lower power consumption to help with throttling issues when gaming for longer periods when plugged in

 

[Queen6]

I have not tested the last generation of laptops. But given the power consumption of high-end video cards, I was under the impression that the mobile versions would be either far less powerful or consume a lot of energy (or both). Perhaps they just drain the battery...

Nvidia 10 series was a big change in both performance and power consumption. Some have duel GPU's which saves a lot battery power when using Intel's integrated graphics. My notebook with a full 1070 GPU pulls around 230W (125W for GPU) under full load which is unlike to be seen in normal use.

Q-6