Trade off between contrast ratio and blooming etc - changing my mind about the ASD

[pgseye]

Interested in people's thoughts on this. I have read so much negative stuff about the Apple Studio Display - primarily that it's overpriced for old technology. Perhaps that is actually true - I'm not suggesting it isn't. While there seems to be a lot of hate out there (especially in YouTube reviews) - there are many positive comments about the ASD on these forums, but of course I did wonder how much of that was post-purchase bias to justify the spend.

My primary monitor usage is for work - lots of text, coding, spreadsheets, etc. I'm not really into gaming but I do use it for PS5 remote play (although console gaming doesn't seem to benefit greatly with refresh rates in excess of 60 Hz, so that doesn't bother me). I do also like to watch movies/Netflix etc, so reading about the poor contrast ratio and limited black range did put me off. I had all but decided to buy a Dell U2723QE instead, based on much positive commentary, lower price, etc. Reading that there might be an ASD refresh in the next couple of years with mini-led panels made me think I will wait until then.

Not really knowing anything about mini-led tech, I thought there were only upsides and no downsides. However, reading around it seems that mini-led panels aren't the panacea to better contrast that I initially thought, with regards to blooming/ghosting issues. This article may have its own biases but it seemed relatively impartial to me (I know it's specific to gaming):

Mini LED gaming monitors are a bad idea in theory and in practice they're even worse

Don't be fooled, this is not the high-end screen tech we've been waiting for.

www.pcgamer.com

So, I'm left now to wonder what the trade-off is between contrast and zonal artefacts on the screen.

In any case I went and actually had a look at an ASD in person. I'm by no means an Apple fanboy but I was pretty bloody impressed. To the point where I think I'm now actually going to buy one because it seems to have everything I was wanting in a monitor and it's just a really nice display to look at - even if it is 2014 tech. I was so impressed that I just don't think I will care if a refreshed mini-led display comes out in 6 months time, because this will continue to serve the original need. I am also beginning to think that I would prefer a display that stays relatively uniform in colour (even if gray instead of black) than one with local dimming that has the potential to bloom (I realise this is subject to the number of dimming zones, but it seems anything less than an OLED display is potentially susceptible to this visual artefact).

Anyway, my point in writing this is to say that I really didn't want to buy an ASD, but actually seeing it has changed my mind I think.

 

[picpicmac]

I have read so much negative stuff about the Apple Studio Display - primarily that it's overpriced for old technology.

In any case I went and actually had a look at an ASD in person. I'm by no means an Apple fanboy but I was pretty bloody impressed.

Funny how that happens, isn't it?

The problem is miscasting the ASD.

YouTube reviewers you may have seen want to portray the ASD as a just a display, but that is not a complete picture.

The ASD is half a Mac. The other half is a box. Pick one from the set {Mini, Studio, Pro}.

That's why the ASD has a camera, microphone, speakers. That's why the ASD does not have HDMI or DisplayPort inputs (because Apple is not selling it as a Windows monitor.)

Apple is not in the monitor business. The ASD is not intended to sit on shelf next to a row displays at your local Best Buy. Trying to judge the ASD as if it is supposed to sit on a row of displays at Best Buy will only lead to disappointment.

Also, why worry about the alleged age of the technology? The printing press is six centuries old but I still prefer to read content printed on paper.

The ASD is on my shortlist to buy (after tax season.) It's on that list exactly because I need a new Mac, and the ASD is (half) a Mac.

 

[jabbr]

That article is comparing gaming monitors with low zone counts and poorly implemented dimming algorithms. The way Apple has implemented MiniLED on the current MacBook Pros is WAY better. The 14" MBP has 2,554 dimming zones, making them around 50 x 50 pixel size each. This makes for a totally different experience than what currently exists on miniLED gaming monitors.

It's not perfect and obviously doesn't match the individual pixel control of OLED, but it is absolutely better than a single backlight. When Apple gets around to updating the 27" / 32" displays with the same level of backlight tech, they're going to be amazing.

You have to account for ambient light levels too. I only notice blooming in near pitch black rooms + brightness up higher than I want.

 

[Loi84]

I had the ASD and wasn’t that impressed. Super sharp obviously, but the edge backlight was just obvious and not much better than that of my $150 Dell. BECAUSE it’s the same old tech.

I’d say, only buy it if office work is your primary use and you value the retina effect. For media consumption etc. and casual use, get / wait for an OLED, even if <5K.

 

[jabbr]

I had the ASD and wasn’t that impressed. Super sharp obviously, but the edge backlight was just obvious and not much better than that of my $150 Dell. BECAUSE it’s the same old tech.

Did you end up finding an alternative? I had the ASD but it started to buzz so I returned it. I also wasn't impressed with the backlight for the money.

 

[Loi84]

Did you end up finding an alternative? I had the ASD but it started to buzz so I returned it. I also wasn't impressed with the backlight for the money.

Not yet. For now, I keep using a 1440p monitor as a temporary solution. It’s only my private computer and I don’t have to look at it for 15 hours a day.

I will try out one of the 4K OLEDs which are due to be released this year. From past experience, 4K 32” doesn’t look as sharp as 5K obviously, but not nearly as bad as some argue on this forum. It will also double as an XBOX screen / small TV.

Very special use case.

If I needed a screen for all day office work, I’d keep an ASD provided it’s a good unit without the buzzing and BLB.

 

[xraydoc]

It will also double as an XBOX screen / small TV.

If you're going to want to connect an Xbox, the ASD is out. Don't expect to be able to do that. In this case, you're probably better with a 3rd party 4K display with multiple inputs. The new OLED models coming out will probably be impressive for a 4K display. But just realize that no matter how good of a picture a 4K display has, the text will never be as sharp as a 5K display. Whether this is a meaningful difference to you is for you alone to decide.

I've had two ASDs for over a year. No power supply buzz (seems to happen more in European countries for whatever reason). No backlight issues -- it is an IPS display, so they do have some slight bleed/nonuniformity, but it's extremely minor and never noticeable under real-world situations. I personally wouldn't trade them for 4K OLED, no matter how good the OLED panel was. Text quality is the #1 thing for me. When 5K+ OLED is available, then we'll talk.

 

[Loi84]

If you're going to want to connect an Xbox, the ASD is out. Don't expect to be able to do that. In this case, you're probably better with a 3rd party 4K display with multiple inputs. The new OLED models coming out will probably be impressive for a 4K display. But just realize that no matter how good of a picture a 4K display has, the text will never be as sharp as a 5K display. Whether this is a meaningful difference to you is for you alone to decide.

I've had two ASDs for over a year. No power supply buzz (seems to happen more in European countries for whatever reason). No backlight issues -- it is an IPS display, so they do have some slight bleed/nonuniformity, but it's extremely minor and never noticeable under real-world situations. I personally wouldn't trade them for 4K OLED, no matter how good the OLED panel was. Text quality is the #1 thing for me. When 5K+ OLED is available, then we'll talk.

I think you’re confusing my post with the TO’s. And I have never considered using an ASD as an XBXOX screen.

 

[xraydoc]

I think you’re confusing my post with the TO’s. And I have never considered using an ASD as an XBXOX screen.

Ah, sorry. So much for posting before my morning coffee!

 

[tstafford]

If you're going to want to connect an Xbox, the ASD is out. Don't expect to be able to do that. In this case, you're probably better with a 3rd party 4K display with multiple inputs. The new OLED models coming out will probably be impressive for a 4K display. But just realize that no matter how good of a picture a 4K display has, the text will never be as sharp as a 5K display. Whether this is a meaningful difference to you is for you alone to decide.

I've had two ASDs for over a year. No power supply buzz (seems to happen more in European countries for whatever reason). No backlight issues -- it is an IPS display, so they do have some slight bleed/nonuniformity, but it's extremely minor and never noticeable under real-world situations. I personally wouldn't trade them for 4K OLED, no matter how good the OLED panel was. Text quality is the #1 thing for me. When 5K+ OLED is available, then we'll talk.

Same here. I'm very pleased with the ASD. When I bought it was the ASD or the LG 5K and the latter was tough to find and not that much cheaper. There are other "retina" options now and I'd opt for whichever one fit my budget/needs the best. I am pretty high on the Dell 6K although it has other trade offs.

 

[1096bimu]

I'm also of the opinion that the ASD is a bit overpriced. For this price I'd expected them to put a cheaper version of FALD in it, maybe something like ~700nit max so it doesn't need an expensive heatsink system. But nope it's just plain LCD, and only 60hz.

I actually think there's nothing wrong with plain LCD, good LCD looks no different from OLED or FALD in well-lit room for desktop work, but if that's also what Apple thinks, they could at least drop the price a bit.

I get that it's also got speakers and camera in it, sure, and given how good MacBooks sound I'd expect nothing less than top tier audio but I still don't think it justifies the cost. So basically the ASD is a great product if you could get it for cheap I would say.

As for all the mini-LED products, I would be extremely cautious because the coordination between backlight and LCD is crucial and many of these manufacturers have a long history of selling half-baked products. I never bothered, never got a single mini-LED display, I went straight to OLED.

 

[pgseye]

I never bothered, never got a single mini-LED display, I went straight to OLED.

Ok - so what 4k 27 or 32 in (I don't want anything too big sitting on my work desk) monitors are currently available? Would be interested to explore this option also.

 

[1096bimu]

Ok - so what 4k 27 or 32 in (I don't want anything too big sitting on my work desk) monitors are currently available? Would be interested to explore this option also.

Unfortunately, OLED monitors are very limited. right now there is ONE 32" 4K 240hz QD-OLED panel with only ONE product from Alienware/Dell available, and more coming in the next couple months. Then there's 1 2k 240hz and like 3 ultra-wide options I don't understand, I mean who buys OLED that can't even play a 4K movie?

And that's it, those two panels are currently your entire selection for desktop monitor. Other than these you'd have to go either laptop size, or TV size, which now has 42" and 48" variants in 4K 120hz.

QD-OLED definitely has issues with text or any sharp horizontal grayscale edge because the green pixel is on top with blue/red on bottom, so single pixel edges tend to look green/magenta. WOLED supposedly has its own issues because they have green on the right instead of the traditional blue on the right. However I've found there to be no issues if you simply don't use sub-pixel rendering, like MacOS already is by default. Since each pixel has a white sub-pixel, grayscale text will not show any finges. WOLED currently also has longer lifespan, so more resistant to burn-in than QD, but QD has better color volume for HDR. I say OLED is no-brainer for dark rooms, but do not use them in bright lighting because they're not very bright to begin with and if you try to push them, lifespan/burn-in will be a problem.

 

[pgseye]

Thank you - it sounds like everything is a compromise...

 

[jabbr]

I was considering one of those upcoming QD-OLEDs but I think the text fringing would be too noticeable at that PPI. Maybe next year when 4K 27" QD-OLED panels hit the market.