Trading iMac for Mac Pro Help?

[cjgonzales1900]

Hi So a friend of mine wants to trade me a 2006 Mac Pro 1,1 2x 2.66 Intel Xeon 750GB HD 8GB Ram, includes Apple 20" Display. I have a 2010 iMac 21.5" 3.06 Intel core 2 duo 4GB Ram 500GB HD. Even trade. Mine has no marks and Apple care tell Jan 2013. His has marks on the ride side where the door comes off, and No Warranty left. is this a fair trade? should I trade, and what should I look out for? I am planning on sunning Windows 7 either 32Bit or 64-bit, no gaming, just basic editing, and surfing the internet. Will it be able to upgrade to 10.7? Anything else I didnt mention? thank you guys for the help.

 

[hammten]

Well his MP is probably worth about 1000 with that display taking the condition of it you describe into account.

I would say your imac is worth a bit more than that, but what really matters is if the imac doesnt meet your needs but his mac pro does, then it may be a trade that you both benefit from

 

[saulinpa]

This is a friend of yours? Did you also trade him your new Lexus for his old Chevy?

Your iMac is faster than that Mac Pro for most things like surfing.

Why are you looking to trade? The iMac should run Windows just fine.

 

[beto2k7]

This is a friend of yours? Did you also trade him your new Lexus for his old Chevy?

Your iMac is faster than that Mac Pro for most things like surfing.

Why are you looking to trade? The iMac should run Windows just fine.

Expandability.

 

[cjgonzales1900]

Expandability.

You hit it right on the money. The iMac has a decent graphics card, HD and screen, but what if I want to update the screen later, I would have to sell the iMac and buy a new one, with the Mac Pro I would just need a Graphics card that supports the screen and then the screen itself. Also the HD's are easily changeable.

 

[hammten]

You hit it right on the money. The iMac has a decent graphics card, HD and screen, but what if I want to update the screen later, I would have to sell the iMac and buy a new one, with the Mac Pro I would just need a Graphics card that supports the screen and then the screen itself. Also the HD's are easily changeable.

If that is what you are after, then the mac pro would be great for you, again, your imac is worth a bit more, at least make him buy a decent video card to put in there to even out the trade perhaps?

 

[ashman70]

Well the one thing you have to keep in mind is that his Mac Pro is a step backwards in technology, four years compared to your iMac. Sure the Mac Pro has dual processors, more ram and is expandable but I think you really need to carefully assess your needs before you go forward with this trade. The Mac Pro is expandable but the PCI Express bus is 1,1 so putting a new video card like an AMD 5770 will boost performance, but you won't get the full potential of the card because of the PCI Bus 1,1 bottleneck. Will you notice? Maybe not, but the gaming performance won't likely be the same as what it is on your iMac. The other thing to remember is that the memory that the Mac Pro takes, this model in particular is very expensive to upgrade, so if you are looking to add more down the road, it will cost $$$. This type of memory is also not optimized for gaming, unlike the memory in your current iMac. I happen to have a Mac Pro 1,1 that I recently picked up, I bought it for different reasons then yours, but I have bootcamped it with Windows 7 64 bit, I have games on it, I bought a used 5770 to put in it and it works fine for me, but I'm not coming from a 2010 iMac and so I can't speak to a comparison of performance. At the very least, ask your friend if he'll give you a week to have the Mac Pro and if you don't like it or want it you can get your iMac back and give him the Mac Pro back.

 

[hammten]

I like the idea of trying it out, you can give him the same chance to return it if its not what he was expecting as well.

Overall, the post above me got most of the things covered, but i would add that you should look into what cpus you can put in the mac pro down the road, because the one you are getting is 2xdual core, you might want to go 8 core down the road, but with the cost of the cpus and the terribly expensive memory the 1,1 model takes, just make sure you are informed going into the trade.

Personally, i would not make that trade, rather i would look for a nice 2009 model and sell off the imac separate, but that is just me.

 

[nanofrog]

You hit it right on the money. The iMac has a decent graphics card, HD and screen, but what if I want to update the screen later, I would have to sell the iMac and buy a new one, with the Mac Pro I would just need a Graphics card that supports the screen and then the screen itself. Also the HD's are easily changeable.

Keep in mind, that the 2006/7 MP's (1,1 and 2,1 models) use EFI32 based firmware, which already limits users in terms of graphics card updates (none of the newer nVidia products will run on these models). There's also some indication that they may be blocked from using some of the next gen ATI cards as well (not sure how accurate this is, but thought it worth mentioning).

Worse yet, Apple announced some time ago that they don't plan on supporting dual Kernels for long, so the ability to continue upgrading OS X will be limited as well. Lion currently supports K32 + K64 (developer releases), but this may or may not make it to the final version that gets shipped. I'd be shocked to see K32 support in 10.8, which isn't that far off if Apple sticks with their current development cycle.

Now assuming you plan on keeping this machine for more than say a couple of years, and you want to run recent GPU's and versions of OS X, you'd be better off selling the iMac, and picking up an EFI64 based model (started with the 2008 models, aka 3,1). The 2008 is more money than what you're currently looking at trading for, but it will last longer in terms of the ability to upgrade.

Just something to consider before leaping on this deal.

 

[cjgonzales1900]

Keep in mind, that the 2006/7 MP's (1,1 and 2,1 models) use EFI32 based firmware, which already limits users in terms of graphics card updates (none of the newer nVidia products will run on these models). There's also some indication that they may be blocked from using some of the next gen ATI cards as well (not sure how accurate this is, but thought it worth mentioning).

Worse yet, Apple announced some time ago that they don't plan on supporting dual Kernels for long, so the ability to continue upgrading OS X will be limited as well. Lion currently supports K32 + K64 (developer releases), but this may or may not make it to the final version that gets shipped. I'd be shocked to see K32 support in 10.8, which isn't that far off if Apple sticks with their current development cycle.

Now assuming you plan on keeping this machine for more than say a couple of years, and you want to run recent GPU's and versions of OS X, you'd be better off selling the iMac, and picking up an EFI64 based model (started with the 2008 models, aka 3,1). The 2008 is more money than what you're currently looking at trading for, but it will last longer in terms of the ability to upgrade.

Just something to consider before leaping on this deal.

First off let me thank everyone for their help. Second, yes I understand all of these concerns. I plan on keeping the machine for about 1 year maybe 2 at the most. then buying a brand new one or something close to it. Also I do no gaming what so ever on the computer. I really just love the way the Mac Pro looks and how you can change the parts in it very easy. Also I understand its about 5 year old tech so thats why I dont plan on keeping it very long.

I want to run Windows 7 Ult. 32-Bit? is this possible? I just want to have it just incase I need it for compatibility.

 

[Umbongo]

First off let me thank everyone for their help. Second, yes I understand all of these concerns. I plan on keeping the machine for about 1 year maybe 2 at the most. then buying a brand new one or something close to it. Also I do no gaming what so ever on the computer. I really just love the way the Mac Pro looks and how you can change the parts in it very easy. Also I understand its about 5 year old tech so thats why I dont plan on keeping it very long.

I want to run Windows 7 Ult. 32-Bit? is this possible? I just want to have it just incase I need it for compatibility.

If you don't plan on keeping it very long why does expandability matter so much - what parts do you plan on changing? Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like you just like the idea of having a Mac Pro, but it isn't really a good trade and you aren't going to benefit in a way that benefits your usage.

 

[nanofrog]

First off let me thank everyone for their help. Second, yes I understand all of these concerns. I plan on keeping the machine for about 1 year maybe 2 at the most. then buying a brand new one or something close to it. Also I do no gaming what so ever on the computer. I really just love the way the Mac Pro looks and how you can change the parts in it very easy. Also I understand its about 5 year old tech so thats why I don't plan on keeping it very long.

I want to run Windows 7 Ult. 32-Bit? is this possible? I just want to have it just in case I need it for compatibility.

As far as trading the current iMac for a 2006 MP, I'm with Umbongo on this one, unless there's a specific problem not previously mentioned (i.e. need more drives, RAID, ... that would require more SATA ports + bays, and/or PCIe slots).

BTW, the monitor in the iMac will last you a year or two, if you actually need to get a MP at that time (don't make a purchasing mistake out of fear).

As per Windows Ultimate 32 bit, Yes it will install on the 2006 MP. Depending on the installation source, you may have to make a new ISO (gets rid of the versioning found on retail disks, as the standards used in the 2006 MP cannot handle versioning at all, and won't install it without this procedure). There's threads here in MR as well as on the web if you go ahead and get the 2006.

But I don't think the 2006 MP is really necessary, particularly for the tasks you've mentioned back in the initial post (iMac is actually a more powerful machine, as has already been mentioned).

 

[cjgonzales1900]

As far as trading the current iMac for a 2006 MP, I'm with Umbongo on this one, unless there's a specific problem not previously mentioned (i.e. need more drives, RAID, ... that would require more SATA ports + bays, and/or PCIe slots).

BTW, the monitor in the iMac will last you a year or two, if you actually need to get a MP at that time (don't make a purchasing mistake out of fear).

As per Windows Ultimate 32 bit, Yes it will install on the 2006 MP. Depending on the installation source, you may have to make a new ISO (gets rid of the versioning found on retail disks, as the standards used in the 2006 MP cannot handle versioning at all, and won't install it without this procedure). There's threads here in MR as well as on the web if you go ahead and get the 2006.

But I don't think the 2006 MP is really necessary, particularly for the tasks you've mentioned back in the initial post (iMac is actually a more powerful machine, as has already been mentioned).

Thank you for your concern. I have traded my iMac for the Mac Pro. The main reason I wanted to trade is, as someone pointed out yes I am not going to keep it for long. I either plan on buying a 27" iMac (or which ever the current model at the time is) or a Mac Pro, in about 1-2 years. I have never owned a Mac Pro before. Therefore I would like to try out a older/less expensive model before going out and spending over $2,000 on a new or slightly used one. Just in case I am not satisfied with the outcome. Do you guys understand what I am trying to say? Again thank you, to all of you for your help!!!

 

[nanofrog]

Do you guys understand what I am trying to say?

I actually do understand.

But the MP's not going to be an issue vs. an iMac (PCIe slots are PCIe slots, and OS X is OS X). You just get desktop expansion capabilities, and the absence of a built-in monitor. So due to the system's age and resulting limitations (EFI32 rather than EFI64), the trade seems a mistake IMO (save the expansion possibilities, which are limited in terms of OS X, you've traded down, not up). Particularly when I think of the GPU, HDD, and memory capacity currently in the 2006 MP (you'll have to pay for any upgrades, and that increases your costs, which what truly makes it a bad deal - I'm not sure you went out and priced what you need before the trade).

This was the point I and others were trying to make (cheaper option isn't always the right way to go, as you've not given the impression that PCIe slots or HDD bays aren't an absolute necessity).

I hope you can understand the logic, but in the end, it's moot at this point anyway, since the trade has occurred (who ever the friend was, s/he got a heck of a deal).

 

[hammten]

Can i be your friend?

In all seriousness, im glad you are happy, you both ended up with what you wanted, but your friend really does owe you a drink, or more importantly some ram or a video card, because as you stan, he pretty much came out miles ahead in that trade in almost every way.

What i really dont understand actually is you say in a couple years you would go with an imac again, why not keep your current one and get an old powermac to play around with and "test the waters"?

 

[saulinpa]

Well now that you've done it think about that "expandability." First thing to get would be a new video card. 5770 from Apple for $250.

 

[nanofrog]

Well now that you've done it think about that "expandability." First thing to get would be a new video card. 5770 from Apple for $250.

Then if memory is upgraded to say another 16GB (via 4GB sticks in order to keep the 4GB currently in the machine - pricing from OWC), tack on another $570 USD. Add the two upgrades together, and it's at $820, which is almost the value of the system (figuring the system in it's current state is worth $1k). This much memory may not be needed (not sure how much editing is done, but the memory for these systems isn't cheap; DDR2-667MHz Fully Buffered DIMM's).

Now consider the value of the iMac, subtract the value of the MP, then add the upgrades to it, the OP really made a bad deal (older system with a significant loss in cash). Which is why it wasn't a good deal for the OP.

The friend made out like a bandit (reasonable to presume they were aware of the cost of the upgrades themselves, realized their usage would be fine with an iMac, and jumped on the trade when offered).

 

[cjgonzales1900]

Well now that you've done it think about that "expandability." First thing to get would be a new video card. 5770 from Apple for $250.

Going to get a used one from the asme friend he is knocking some money off. so like $100 for the same card from apple. Just have to wait a couple of weeks. and i had a power mac not the same as this. I plan on getting a imac or mac pro so I wanted to try both before I make up my mind in 1-2 years and buy one or the other.

 

[cjgonzales1900]

I am currently using the Mac Pro and loving it.

Feels faster than my iMac for some reason idk. Plus i priced the iMac and for a straight trade I did good. they were both worth about $1000. Not considering the uprgades to the Mac Pro I will have to do. All I really want is a better graphics card at least 512mb and a 24" led screen. Like i said I only use this machine for Surfing, Homework, Pixelmator, and all my music/apps/videos in iTunes. I will most likely buy a Mac Pro in the future, just because it will last longer and be easier to upgrade as it ages. I am planing on maybe keeping this one as a second computer if I do buy a new one.

 

[nanofrog]

I am currently using the Mac Pro and loving it.

Feels faster than my iMac for some reason idk. Plus i priced the iMac and for a straight trade I did good. they were both worth about $1000. Not considering the uprgades to the Mac Pro I will have to do. All I really want is a better graphics card at least 512mb and a 24" led screen. Like i said I only use this machine for Surfing, Homework, Pixelmator, and all my music/apps/videos in iTunes. I will most likely buy a Mac Pro in the future, just because it will last longer and be easier to upgrade as it ages. I am planing on maybe keeping this one as a second computer if I do buy a new one.

The machine will do what you need, but that iMac had a screen with it. Add the new GPU card + monitor (presumes no other upgrades), and you'll add a good bit of money.

On an EFI64 system, it would have made more sense due to the additional longevity, and may not have needed the same upgrades (i.e. existing GPU may have been sufficient, especially if the previous owner had already upgraded it at some point, say an ATI HD4870 for example; not new, but not something you'd want to just toss, as it would be fine for your described usage). It could have even had more memory, faster and larger HDD's, ... But it always depends on the specific used system up for sale, so each one has to be evaluated for value.

As per monitors, you don't need an LED backlight (more efficient, and gets to full intensity faster than CCFL, but it adds costs). The IPS panels in the current Apple monitors are what makes them better than TN based units from other manufacturers. But if you insist on an IPS panel, there's other options out there (either better monitor, or could find one cheaper if you know what you're looking for, particularly in the used/over stock of previous models market).

 

[cjgonzales1900]

As per monitors, you don't need an LED backlight (more efficient, and gets to full intensity faster than CCFL, but it adds costs). The IPS panels in the current Apple monitors are what makes them better than TN based units from other manufacturers. But if you insist on an IPS panel, there's other options out there (either better monitor, or could find one cheaper if you know what you're looking for, particularly in the used/over stock of previous models market).

Can you help me with graphics cards. I know there are threads on here about them. Right now I have the NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT in the Mac Pro. I want to get a bigger monitor and brighter. I am used to a LED screen already, because of my LED TV. I am looking at either a LCD or LED I know mainly its a price difference. the Dell U2410 has been mentioned as a good LCD 24" IPS Monitor is this true? Also would I notice a difference if I did or didn't get a better graphics card? thank you for your thoughts.

 

[nanofrog]

Can you help me with graphics cards. I know there are threads on here about them. Right now I have the NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT in the Mac Pro. I want to get a bigger monitor and brighter. I am used to a LED screen already, because of my LED TV. I am looking at either a LCD or LED I know mainly its a price difference. the Dell U2410 has been mentioned as a good LCD 24" IPS Monitor is this true? Also would I notice a difference if I did or didn't get a better graphics card? thank you for your thoughts.

When you see LED, it's usually referring to the backlight system, not the panel (LCD is panel tech, and is available in different variants, such as TN, PVA, and IPS as basic types - there's more information on the web if you want to figure out the differences).

As per a card, I'd go with a recent ATI card supported by Apple's drivers, such as the 5770 or 5780 (of what's out now). But the Apple versions are more than their PC counterparts due to the limited market (see Apple's site for pricing).

I've not had access to that particular Dell (I use an NEC LCD2490WUXi - newer version, the NEC LCD2490WUXi2-BK goes for $699 ATM at bhphotovideo.com - here). But others say that particular Dell is a good monitor (specs seem good, but that's all I can go by personally). The NEC's listed are color accurate monitors, and would be over-kill for what you're doing (I don't do video/graphics work, but need such a monitor to avoid actual headaches due to eye strain - they can get severe, so it was worth the extra funds in my case).

 

[cjgonzales1900]

When you see LED, it's usually referring to the backlight system, not the panel (LCD is panel tech, and is available in different variants, such as TN, PVA, and IPS as basic types - there's more information on the web if you want to figure out the differences).

As per a card, I'd go with a recent ATI card supported by Apple's drivers, such as the 5770 or 5780 (of what's out now). But the Apple versions are more than their PC counterparts due to the limited market (see Apple's site for pricing).

I've not had access to that particular Dell (I use an NEC LCD2490WUXi - newer version, the NEC LCD2490WUXi2-BK goes for $699 ATM at bhphotovideo.com - here). But others say that particular Dell is a good monitor (specs seem good, but that's all I can go by personally). The NEC's listed are color accurate monitors, and would be over-kill for what you're doing (I don't do video/graphics work, but need such a monitor to avoid actual headaches due to eye strain - they can get severe, so it was worth the extra funds in my case).

Ok I understand now. So LED just means pretty much a brighter screen? but what I really want is IPS? The Mac Pro came with the 20" ACD, its just not bright enough for me. picture looks great tho. Also would you suggest a 512mb car or 1gb card? would I notice the difference between them if I dont do gaming or editing. I just watch videos pretty much. thank you.

 

[allupons]

If all you do is watch videos, then definitely don't go overkill on the graphics cards. It is possible that if your current graphics card already can handle 1080p playback smoothly that a new graphics card may be unnecessary for you altogether as well. High performance cards are mostly for gaming, editing, modeling, and rendering. For the most part even integrated graphics have handled video playback smoothly for years now.

 

[cjgonzales1900]

If all you do is watch videos, then definitely don't go overkill on the graphics cards. It is possible that if your current graphics card already can handle 1080p playback smoothly that a new graphics card may be unnecessary for you altogether as well. High performance cards are mostly for gaming, editing, modeling, and rendering. For the most part even integrated graphics have handled video playback smoothly for years now.

I believe my current card can. I was watching a movie trailer in 1080p and no lag or any problems with video play back. What I can do is buy the monitor I want and see how my current graphics card works with it.