macOS Transgaming For Mac (x86)

[jared_kipe]

For anyone who doesn't know Transgaming is a group of programers who offer an api for linux that allows linux (on x68) to play directx games. Obviously with the recent switch to x86 processors for the Mac I was interested to see what Transgaming was thinking about that. I wrote them an email..

"With the recent switch of CPU architecture for the Mac platform
switching to x86 based hardware. I believe you may find in a years
time a new market for your winex based software. Since OSX is
already UNIX based, and can run LINUX compiled binaries under X11, I
feel that your company could profit heavily if they take the time to
write an easy to use mac version of your software. You should also
know that developers can pickup a test system from apple for $999
with a P4 in it runing OSX 10.4.1 (though I would imagine if you
talked with apple they might let you have one for far less when they
realize what you can bring to the mac platform).

Thank you,
Jared Kipe"

To which they responded..

"Hello

TransGaming, like the rest of the world, was surprised to hear of
Apple's announcement to move from IBM PowerPC to Intel x86 processors.
We will continue to stay apprised of the public announcements that Apple
makes regarding this matter and will assess the opportunities for
TransGaming at a later date when we have a more complete picture of
Apple's strategy.

--
Lucas Smithen
Quality Assurance and Technical Support
TransGaming Technologies
lucas@transgaming.com
--
Let the Games Begin!"

Short of Aspyr, or someone, else doing something similar; I believe this will be the best thing for gaming on the mac platform.

 

[iJon]

I would rather just be able to boot into Windows and play the games like they were meant to be. And from the sounds of it, it looks like we will be able to do just that.

jon

 

[atari1356]

I would rather just be able to boot into Windows and play the games like they were meant to be. And from the sounds of it, it looks like we will be able to do just that.

jon

I'd rather just us OS X, and not have to deal with Windows.

Also, booting into Windows could introduce some possibility of virus infection on your computer (depending of course on what you do/whether or not you have virus protection software/etc). Some viruses can just attach themselves to random files on your hard drive or delete random files... in this case, possibly including files related to Mac OS X or your personal files.

Virtual PC is safe from that, since it used a container file for the PC hard drive. I would think that something like this Transgaming technology (and also WINE) would be safe from viruses as well since Windows isn't involved at all... it's just a set of reverse engineered Windows API's.

EDIT: although, I agree that it's nice to have the option to install Windows

 

[iJon]

I'd rather just us OS X, and not have to deal with Windows.

Also, booting into Windows could introduce some possibility of virus infection on your computer (depending of course on what you do/whether or not you have virus protection software/etc). Some viruses can just attach themselves to random files on your hard drive or delete random files... in this case, possibly including files related to Mac OS X or your personal files.

Virtual PC is safe from that, since it used a container file for the PC hard drive. I would think that something like this Transgaming technology (and also WINE) would be safe from viruses as well since Windows isn't involved at all... it's just a set of reverse engineered Windows API's.

EDIT: although, I agree that it's nice to have the option to install Windows

There is no way that a Windows Partition would be able to see a HFS+ hard drive without using a 3rd party app. I don't think it will be as big of a worry as you make it out to be.

jon

 

[jared_kipe]

There is no way that a Windows Partition would be able to see a HFS+ hard drive without using a 3rd party app. I don't think it will be as big of a worry as you make it out to be.

jon

This has been discussed at great length, first of all all that has to happen is the virus be written to include its own drivers for HSF, or even worse, just target random sectors on a disk.

Anyway, who wants to boot in osx, do some work , reboot into windows, 15min get to start playing your game, then have to boot into osx just to read your mail? Its really stupid unless there is some game you just have to play, and thats the ONLY way to play it. Running inside VPC or some kind of WINE is the way mac gaming will come into its own.

 

[atari1356]

There is no way that a Windows Partition would be able to see a HFS+ hard drive without using a 3rd party app. I don't think it will be as big of a worry as you make it out to be.

jon

Perhaps you're right. I hadn't thought about the fact that PC's use a different file system, so you'd have to have a separate partition.

Still, I'd rather not deal with Windows at all... but then, I'm not a big gamer these days anyways (and that's about all PC's are good for).

 

[mkrishnan]

This thread made me wonder whether WINE represents a vector for Windows viruses into Linux or (soon) MacOS X. Apparently not:


linkety

Too funny!

 

[jared_kipe]

Didn't read your link, but it would be dificult to do so, because viruses typically use some kind on system loophole to gain access. They wouldn't really know how to react not seeing that system in place.

 

[iJon]

This has been discussed at great length, first of all all that has to happen is the virus be written to include its own drivers for HSF, or even worse, just target random sectors on a disk.

Anyway, who wants to boot in osx, do some work , reboot into windows, 15min get to start playing your game, then have to boot into osx just to read your mail? Its really stupid unless there is some game you just have to play, and thats the ONLY way to play it. Running inside VPC or some kind of WINE is the way mac gaming will come into its own.

I don't mind. If i want to play a game I usually do for quite a while, not just a few minutes.

Now on another note, who is going to want to pay $100 for VPC if they can just install windows and boot when they need to. You'd be surprised how many people who would go the more difficult way. But I agree, VPC would be the way to go.

jon

 

[mkrishnan]

But I agree, VPC would be the way to go.

Also, though, Bochs and the like are going to be much, much more capable on Mactels than they are now.... And they're free!

 

[superbovine]

I was thinking something like this.

http://www.coderus.com/

 

[atari1356]

This thread made me wonder whether WINE represents a vector for Windows viruses into Linux or (soon) MacOS X. Apparently not:

linkety

Too funny!

Hehe, that's a great read. Nice to see that Windows viruses have little to no effect on WINE.

 

[superbovine]

Hehe, that's a great read. Nice to see that Windows viruses have little to no effect on WINE.

there is always this example.

http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/linux.simile.html

 

[Willie Sippel]

I'd guess that, untill OSX on x86 ships, Transgaming will be pretty much out of business. Not because their product is bad or anything, but today, Wine is much more compatible - for standard applications as well as games. The only benefit for Transgaming is that they tweak Cedega for a few selected games, while Wine tries to be completely Windows compatible - which means, games supported by Transgaming usually work faster on Cedega right now, but more games work on Wine. Plus, Wine has a new developer who currently adds Direct3D 9 support (Cedega only supports D3D up to D3D8), and the first bunch of D3D9 patches are already in the official Wine tree.

BTW, it's somewhat short-sighted to compare Wine to VPC or dual booting. For quite a few reasons:
- VPC is not only expensive, it'll also add quite a lot of CPU and memory overhead (running two OSs at the same time, plus some hardware emulation).
- If VPC for OSX/ x86 will be comparable to VMWare, the current de facto standard for that class of virtual machines, there won't be any direct hardware access, it will not be possible to get hardware-accelerated graphics. So, it's completely unsuited for games.
- To dual boot, you'll need a (legal) copy of Windows, which is even more expensive than VPC.
- Dual booting is quite inconvenient. You'll have to deal with two different operating systems, you'll have no integration, no copy-and-paste between Windows and OSX applications, no easy file transferring between the OSs, and it's really cumbersome to just play a quick game if work gets boring (you'll have to save all your work, reboot, wait a while 'till Windows is up, fire up the game, play a few minutes, end game, shut-down Windows, boot OSX, fire up applications, re-open your work).


PS: superbovine,

the virus described on the page you linked was a proof-of-concept multi-platform virus that would also work on OSX with a few tweaks. No payload, no destruction, never spotted in the wild - so hip hip who cares! Nobody ever believed it were impossible to write a virus for Linux or OSX, or any other OS...

 

[superbovine]

PS: superbovine,

the virus described on the page you linked was a proof-of-concept multi-platform virus that would also work on OSX with a few tweaks. No payload, no destruction, never spotted in the wild - so hip hip who cares! Nobody ever believed it were impossible to write a virus for Linux or OSX, or any other OS...

i never said it wasn't.