Trying to get best performance out of old MacBooks in macOS.

[SpatialZebra]

Hello,
I recently got two MacBooks from the bin. The first one is a MacBook 4.1 and the other one a MacBook 2.1. I cleaned them all, cleaned the keyboards key by key (had to remove them all), redid the thermal paste, of course after making sure that they both worked, which they did.
One of them had a failing HDD which I did of course replace.

They have "decent" hardware when it comes to office use, the 4.1 has a Core 2 Duo T8300 and Intel GMA X3100 graphics, and the other one has a Core 2 Duo T7400 and Intel GMA 965 Graphics, same as the GPU-less version of the Dell Inspiron 1520, which I have and it runs Windows 11 just fine with good performance. With Lubuntu 18.04, a very good piece of software that is at the same time light and also a strong enough base that can still be responsive on an HDD, I get decent performance on these MacBooks and they can play YouTube in 720P no problem.

But with macOS... it's a different story! The latest version I could install was OS X Lion, and by the way it was a nightmare to get the .app installer for free so I could make a USB installer from a recent version of macOS.
Needless to say, even with some decent browsers like Firefox Legacy, there was no way I could run YouTube. Not only did it struggle as hell to load the website but it also could not play higher than 360P properly.

This is a shame considering the hardware in them, which I know can play 720P 60 FPS fine. It's all down to the OS, and I really want to use macOS, I already have a good pile of similarly aged systems with Windows or Linux. But... for macOS to be a usable experience, I need to install a newer version. I think El Capitan would do fine, or maybe even Yosemite. But there could be graphics issues and stuff like that. I have absolutely no experience with kext patches, I don't even know how they work and what they are in the OS. But if somebody can help me out, then maybe I could get it to work.
Otherwise I'll stick with Lion and download videos to watch them. I actually like the vintage look, and I am happy about it, but it's definitely holding my performance back.
Thank's Apple for killing it by not making drivers for it in newer versions, I know similarly specced machines can run El Capitan, it's just that they have... dedicated graphics.

 

[BrianBaughn]

Apple's fault or whatever those models are just too old. Even patchers like dosdude1 can't help.

My original iPad, released in 2010, can't do anything anymore and I remember watching streaming baseball on the MLB app and it looked great!

I've experimented with the MacBook 4,1 model and came to the conclusion that a lightweight Linux distro was the best option.

 

[SpatialZebra]

I was able to install El Capitan with graphics driver, but... graphics driver is a bit of a strong word here, opening launchpad is super laggy for some reason, and most importantly Lion was much better at opening websites, El Capitan struggles so badly.
So yes, Lubuntu 18.04 is my solution for everything, I am able to play YouTube fine in 720P. I’ll get some macOS theme and install Lion next to it.
Is mavericks any better than Lion when it comes to loading stuff on a capable computer? Because I have heard it runs OK on my device.

But still, this has similar hardware to my Inspiron 1520 which runs Windows 11 fine and can play YouTube full HD 60 FPS. OK it has 4GB of RAM, but for some reason when I put that DDR2 kit in the macbook it would refuse to post. I also had a 2GB stick from 2008 lying around, which I put in the macbook and it works so I can have 3GB.
This did help performance under El Capitan quite a bit but still struggles a lot.

This may have to do with graphics drivers, considering I have a T8300, which is better than the T7100 in my Dell Latitude D630 which not only also plays YouTube fine (with 2GB of RAM only) but also gets close to 100 FPS in Minecraft 1.8 (thanks to a Quadro NVS 135M GPU but still when it comes to YouTube it’s the CPU that counts).

 

[EugW]

I retired my MacBook4,1 in 2018.

IMO, it's not worth trying to run OS X on any MacBook before MacBook5,1 unless it's for nostalgia, or if you need to run specific software on an old OS X version.

Those machines are prime candidates for other OSes, such as CloudReady or Linux, although I don't run those either as they have their own problems. Ubuntu 18.04 LTS was really buggy on that machine for whatever reason (even though 16.04 was OK), and neither OS play nicely with my Apple AirPort Extreme pseudo mesh system, although that's not their fault since that WiFi network is built specifically for Apple devices running Apple OSes.

Is mavericks any better than Lion when it comes to loading stuff on a capable computer? Because I have heard it runs OK on my device.

Anything before 10.12 Sierra is very problematic IMO. 10.9 Mavericks looks nice but is way too old. 10.11 El Capitan is the absolute bare minimum in my view for daily usability, but it also has issues, esp. with regards to SSL certificates. There are various workarounds for these issues on these old OSes, but they are just that, workarounds.

Others may disagree, but I find that a usable and pleasant minimum OS X is 10.13 High Sierra. The main problem with High Sierra is that it runs like a dog without an SSD and bare minimum 4 GB RAM, although 6-8 GB RAM is highly preferred.

My MacBook5,1, MacBookPro5,5, and iMac11,3 all run 10.13 High Sierra. All have SSDs and sufficient RAM.

My MacBook4,1 and iMac4,1 have been put out to pasture, alongside my PowerPC Macs.

 

[mr_manny]

Linux, an SSD and as much RAM as you can get, provides a very nice boost in performance on these older duo-core MBs. Some linux distros do a better job of paying nice with apple hardware then others.

My current distro of choice is MX linux.
Uses a no-frills xfce windows manager, but very snappy because of it.

 

[SpatialZebra]

I would never use Ubuntu on my macbook 4.1,
I said Lubuntu 18.04
That is not "really buggy"
In fact it runs perfectly on my macbook 2.1 as well.
I even got OS X Mountain Lion with full graphics acceleration to work on them.
Full graphics acceleration!!!
That is a 64 bits only OS X, but sadly the little pkg file that installs the graphics drivers would not work under El Capitan.
I think Apple is really holding the performance back, because I have a Dell Inspiron 1520 with a Core 2 Duo T9300 (before it was a T7500 so Merom and it was almost as good as the T9300) and GM965 chipset.
Yet with an SSD and 4GB of RAM it runs Windows 11 perfectly fine and plays youtube full HD perfectly fine in Windows 11!!
But my macbook 4.1 won’t do that because of the poor cooling.
In Mountain Lion YouTube plays in 720P fairly well, much better than it did in Lion, but you still have these occasional sound cracks which means that a tiny bit more power is needed.
And the hardware does have it. The OS is holding it back.
Any explanation why that graphics driver that works in Mountain Lion would not work in El Capitan?
Because the kexts for El Capitan are garbage. Opening the launchpad tells you about it, while it’s very smooth in Mountain Lion after installing the driver.

 

[SpatialZebra]

Well I think below High Sierra is still very usable today, and that an SSD is not that much of a must for it.
And I say that as somebody who hates as much as hating is possible having to deal with Windows on a hard drive, even an old one like Windows 7.

I don’t really know about Yosemite because I did not try it, but I swear El Capitan is enough for basic tasks, and Sierra definitely!
4GB of RAM starts to become a minimum under Catalina, you can still use only 2GB up to Mojave (even though 4GB feels quite a lot better).

 

[EugW]

I swear El Capitan is enough for basic tasks, and Sierra definitely!
4GB of RAM starts to become a minimum under Catalina, you can still use only 2GB up to Mojave (even though 4GB feels quite a lot better).

El Capitan doesn't have robust browser support. There are workarounds and back ported browsers, etc., but it becomes really annoying, and not everything always works properly. Sierra is OK, but High Sierra is better. IOW, there is a large difference in support and usability going from El Capitan to High Sierra IMHO.

As for Ubuntu 18.04, performance is not an issue on MacBook4,1. It runs fast on MacBook4,1. It's just buggy. I have not tried Lubuntu but one of the reasons I haven't bothered with more than a couple of other distros (I think I tried 3 or 4 different distros) is just because of driver support and what not under Linux. For Linux it was constant tinkering and dealing with workarounds just to get everything to work relatively OK, but even then there are sometimes issues. From my perspective, that's just the nature of Linux in general in the context of mainstream consumers.

To put it another way, I didn't like dealing with the workarounds needed in El Capitan, so it's no surprise I disliked even more dealing with the workarounds in various Linux distros and CloudReady. OTOH, High Sierra just works... but not on MacBook4,1.

YMMV.

 

[Amethyst1]

Thank's Apple for killing it by not making drivers for it in newer versions, I know similarly specced machines can run El Capitan, it's just that they have... dedicated graphics.

My MacBook4,1 has dedicated graphics!

I don’t really know about Yosemite because I did not try it,

To put it bluntly, Yosemite is garbage.

 

[SpatialZebra]

Dedicated graphics... yes but do you still use the integrated display? And can you close the device after your little mod?
Oh, and you are losing wifi.
I really don't need GPU power, I need graphics acceleration in some acceptable macOS.
El Capitan still supports the latest google chrome to this day, you can check on their website. No workarounds needed here.
What sucks is the graphics kexts, they don't give you acceleration, you can see that by opening launchpad.
Lubuntu 18.04 is definitely the best Linux choice for this device, and it's not too hard to get wifi and webcam working fully (the rest of it is supported out of the box).
It's absolutely not glitching, and I managed to get it to look very similar to macOS (I can post a picture if you want).
As I said Mountain Lion works fine with full graphics acceleration, and all I needed was creating the patched USB, installing like normal, and no need for post patched, just do the first time setup and run a pkg file that's in the USB for graphics full support, then reboot and that's it.
It's almost enough, I would just need... a newer version with graphics acceleration.

 

[Amethyst1]

Dedicated graphics... yes but do you still use the integrated display? And can you close the device after your little mod?
Oh, and you are losing wifi.

It’s just a proof on concept really.

It's almost enough, I would just need... a newer version with graphics acceleration.

And that has “just” not happened yet. It’s unfortunate but I’d look into either dual-booting Mountain Lion and Linux and use the latter when a current browser is needed, or virtualising Linux on top of Mountain Lion which gives you a current browser without the need to reboot.

As for Mavericks; you won’t have graphics acceleration either.

Alternatively, replace the logic board with one from a MacBook5,2 — the GeForce 9400M GPU is much better than the X3100 and you can run El Capitan out of the box. Monterey with patching.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Is mavericks any better than Lion when it comes to loading stuff on a capable computer? Because I have heard it runs OK on my device.

Yes, it's quite a bit better in terms of software compatibility! Mavericks can run Zoom, the Affinity Suite, Widevine (the library you need to play videos on e.g. Netflix), etc. Still not great, but very workable.

It's what I use all day every day. But, I'm on a much faster computer. I wouldn't recommend using anything without graphics acceleration, it's just not worth it.

esp. with regards to SSL certificates.

We can disagree on how much software is enough for a computer to be usable, but the certificate issue is really, trivially easy to fix. https://trac.macports.org/wiki/ProblemHotlist#letsencrypt

It's not a workaround, you're just using Keychain Access for the thing that Keychain Access was designed for. Macs ship with a set of certificates by default, and users can add additional or newer ones as needed.

 

[EugW]

We can disagree on how much software is enough for a computer to be usable, but the certificate issue is really, trivially easy to fix. https://trac.macports.org/wiki/ProblemHotlist#letsencrypt

It's not a workaround, you're just using Keychain Access for the thing that Keychain Access was designed for. Macs ship with a set of certificates by default, and users can add additional or newer ones as needed.

Yes, and even with these so-called fixes, occasional websites still have issues.

Anyhow, my definition of a good Mac experience is not having to tinker all the time just to get basic things to work properly. With later OSes, things just work. Or at least, they require much, much less tinkering.

Furthermore, instructions like that are the antithesis of user friendly. I had to walk a friend of mine through a similar set of instructions so that he could get his family member's El Capitan machine working again. Note that this person was the web design lead of a major corporation and coordinates work between design creatives and web programmers. If someone like that needs help, you can imagine how lost your average schmoe off the street is going to be.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Yes, and even with these so-called fixes, occasional websites still have issues.

...any in particular that you know of? I'm surprised because I haven't run into any myself.

Note that this person was the web design lead of a major corporation and coordinates work between design creatives and web programmers. If someone like that needs help, you can imagine how lost your average schmoe off the street is going to be.

Well, I assume that people on this forum are a little more well-versed in tech than the average person off the street, but I am surprised someone in the web dev industry needed assistance. I just don't think Keychain Access is that hard to use.

You can always use the Terminal instead, if that's easier. This does admittedly require opening the Terminal, but then you can just copy and paste:

curl 'http://x1.i.lencr.org' > /tmp/ISRGRootX1.pem && sudo security -v add-trusted-cert -d -r trustRoot -k /Library/Keychains/System.keychain /tmp/ISRGRootX1.pem

Make sure to run this on a trusted internet connection, since you're downloading the certificate over HTTP. (This still isn't that complicated. Your password-protected home wifi network is good; coffee shop wifi is bad.)

 

[EugW]

...any in particular that you know of? I'm surprised because I haven't run into any myself.

I don't remember which sites now that was way back in October. However, a few times over the course of the month I'd run into issues even after performing the fixes. Plus I didn't like the more limited browser selection either.

However, it's no longer an issue because I ended up just buying a 2014 Mac mini to replace the 10.11 El Capitan Mac Pro 2,1 I was using. I've now retired all of my machines that can't run High Sierra or better. My two El Capitan Mac Pros are no longer in active use, although I did keep them, and they're both fully functional. Actually, one is stuck on 10.7 Lion for now, since its Radeon 5770 died.

This 2014 Mac mini works well, but I'll probably replace it with an M1X or M2 model (ie. new form factor) in 2022 just for fun. I don't own an Apple Silicon Mac yet so this would be my introduction.

Well, I assume that people on this forum are a little more well-versed in tech than the average person off the street, but I am surprised someone in the web dev industry needed assistance. I just don't think Keychain Access is that hard to use.

I guess it depends on what you mean by web developer. He's a web designer, not a web coder. ie. UX, design, and aesthetics, etc. The closest he would come to coding would be to drop in code that the web programmers have built.

I'm sure he would have been able to figure it out eventually if he had spent some more time researching it, but like most users, he doesn't want to spend precious time tinkering on old machines. BTW, after getting the El Capitan machine working... he still just ended up ordering an M1 iMac to replace it.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I mean, I'm not calling for a mass revolution in which everyone installs old versions of macOS. I just don't think installing a certificate should be a deal-breaker.

Something like Mavericks (versus El Capitan) definitely requires a bit more tinkering, but IMO it's still less work than e.g. using Linux full-time, with a nicer end-product.

 

[B S Magnet]

And that has “just” not happened yet. It’s unfortunate but I’d look into either dual-booting Mountain Lion and Linux and use the latter when a current browser is needed, or virtualising Linux on top of Mountain Lion which gives you a current browser without the need to reboot.

I’ve noticed with Mountain Lion on MB4,1 there is no way to make adjustments for a ColorSync profile. You get one option: hardware default.

 

[SpatialZebra]

I just don't understand why the little pkg utility that installs graphics drivers in Mountain Lion does not work in Mavericks, what's so different between these two versions?
For the macbook 5.2 motherboard... that is a great idea, but first probably too expensive for a such device, and also I need the fans and the thermistors connectors to still be compatible, as they changed quite a lot between that macbooks series.
I think I will end up dual booting Lubuntu 18.04 and OS X Mountain Lion or actually maybe even Lion, I'll see.
Now because I can't get better browsing power from a newer version of macOS, I'd like to get extra power from a better browser.
Does anybody here know a patch or something to run a fairly new version of Chrome in Lion or Mountain Lion?

 

[B S Magnet]

Anyhow, my definition of a good Mac experience is not having to tinker all the time just to get basic things to work properly. With later OSes, things just work. Or at least, they require much, much less tinkering.

Running a single-line — or single-time — process, once, to make sure Let’s Encrypt web sites around the internet continue to work on a Mac is not a “tinker all the time” issue. Otherwise, things just work.

If you’re wanting a Mac experience whereby the only thing you have to do, forever and ever, is rely on hands-off Software Update fixes — which stop being a thing for anything less current than Apple’s three most recent major OS versions — then yes, I suppose you’re personally seeking for a “don’t learn anything, don’t open a terminal window to copy-paste one line for years more of use, do-it-all-for-me-or-elese-let-me-dispose-of-this-hardware” experience which Apple hope you, the consumer, will abide by ditching your gear and buying “what’s new!” at the Apple Store this week.

 

[B S Magnet]

I just don't understand why the little pkg utility that installs graphics drivers in Mountain Lion does not work in Mavericks, what's so different between these two versions?

I honestly don’t know. I wondered what changed between Mountain Lion and Sierra when I patch-installed the latter onto the same MacBook4,1 I patched Mountain Lion (on a separate partition), as Sierra did launch, but the screen goes blank when trying anything graphic intensive (including the animated opening of windows).

Dumb question, but which pkg did you use for graphics acceleration in Mountain Lion for MacBook4,1? It’s possible I did this, but I don’t remember running anything like that when I set up Mountain Lion with MacPostFacto.

I think I will end up dual booting Lubuntu 18.04 and OS X Mountain Lion or actually maybe even Lion, I'll see.
Now because I can't get better browsing power from a newer version of macOS, I'd like to get extra power from a better browser.
Does anybody here know a patch or something to run a fairly new version of Chrome in Lion or Mountain Lion?

There is a person who builds current versions of Chromium for Lion and above, but not for 64-bit Snow Leopard (frustratingly). It’s called Chromium Legacy.

 

[SpatialZebra]

OK I will try it!

 

[SpatialZebra]

I do not want what you call a "decent Mac experience". People who try to get that and ignore all other OSs or any patches will keep buying new Macs that Apple makes more and more blatantly unupgradable.
They just made iMacs CPUs soldered.
They sometimes (and now all the time) solder SSDs and RAM so they can sell the upgrades for a ridiculously high price.
But nothing in what kills the planet is really premium. They are just scamming all the time.
I do have an iMac. It's a 2017 iMac 18.2, and I chose this one because it is upgradable, repairable and everything (despite the display that uses glue).

For the average consumer, I would recommend a real PC (and not a crap ChromeBook or its Windows equivalent with a celeron that my 20 dollars Core 2 Duo T9300 beats and soldered RAM), like the Dell Inspiron 1520 was in 2007 for example. With few cheap upgrades it now runs Windows 11 perfectly fine and it does not feel old.
Without upgrading anything, I could have used Lubuntu 18.04, customize it and still get a good experience.
And finally if you really, really want macOS, but all you do is basic tasks, some Core 2 Duo mac that's supported by Dosdude1 patcher does it. My sister is using one, it's an early 2009 iMac 9.1!

 

[EugW]

I do not want what you call a "decent Mac experience".

That’s fine and of course there’s nothing wrong with that.

However, I do as do many others. Just relaying my experience and preferences, and my recommendations for mainstream Mac users.

Many others have other preferences, esp. if they’re not mainstream Mac users.

And finally if you really, really want macOS, but all you do is basic tasks, some Core 2 Duo mac that's supported by Dosdude1 patcher does it. My sister is using one, it's an early 2009 iMac 9.1!

Indeed, and using the DosDude1 patcher, that era of machine runs High Sierra perfectly. Catalina not so much.

That iMac is 13 years old BTW, and given that era of machine runs my preferred minimum of High Sierra so well, I don’t think your sustainability rant make much sense in this context.

 

[MBAir2010]

I just don't understand why the little pkg utility that installs graphics drivers in Mountain Lion does not work in Mavericks, what's so different between these two versions?
For the macbook 5.2 motherboard... that is a great idea, but first probably too expensive for a such device, and also I need the fans and the thermistors connectors to still be compatible, as they changed quite a lot between that macbooks series.
I think I will end up dual booting Lubuntu 18.04 and OS X Mountain Lion or actually maybe even Lion, I'll see.
Now because I can't get better browsing power from a newer version of macOS, I'd like to get extra power from a better browser.
Does anybody here know a patch or something to run a fairly new version of Chrome in Lion or Mountain Lion?

i just don't know either, i was using mountain lion from launch every day 2012 until last January were i could sync iCloud and read websites in full form (using firebox legacy)
yesterday i performed an update that made the OSX worse, and shut down the spare laptop after several minutes.
what got me was i posted a reply on this site december 9th, but could not yesterday.
i tried scrolling certain webpages and tried turning off safe search and clicking photos in flickr which did not happen.

as far as using chrome, i can't answer that simply i stay away from google, since 2012

 

[SpatialZebra]

Despite what people say about its RAM usage, Chrome will perform better than Firefox. It's just a stronger base.
Even on a system with 1GB of RAM Chrome performs better.


For Catalina with Dosdude's patcher, the key is of course an SSD, and enough RAM, because its RAM usage is much higher than Mojave.
Otherwise you can just go and use Mojave. (The SSD stays a good idea)
That's what my sister's iMac 9.1 is running.