Trying to organise my photos....close to tears.

[Hello.there]

Helllllllllllllllllllllllllllllp!

I promise, this isn't another 'should I use iPhoto or Aperture or Lightroom to organise my photos' thread. But....I started out using iPhoto and didn't like it, so now I'm trying the Aperture 2 trial. But my photos seem to be all over the place on my computer, duplicates everywhere, I don't know where anything is, it's sheer CHAOS!

All I want is for my photos to be in one simple folder, not shared between apps, no libraries here there and everywhere, just nice and straightfoward.

I like the look of Aperture and would be happy enough to stop using iPhoto completely if it meant it was just me, that one simple folder and Aperture working with my pics. Nothing else. No duplicates. No importing from an iPhoto library to Aperture - just ONE location on my iMac where all my photos are stored!

Is there any kind soul out there who can guide me to the light at the end of the tunnel, if there is one? How do I achieve this blissful simplicity I'm craving?

Thanks.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Helllllllllllllllllllllllllllllp!

I promise, this isn't another 'should I use iPhoto or Aperture or Lightroom to organise my photos' thread. But....I started out using iPhoto and didn't like it, so now I'm trying the Aperture 2 trial. But my photos seem to be all over the place on my computer, duplicates everywhere, I don't know where anything is, it's sheer CHAOS!

All I want is for my photos to be in one simple folder, not shared between apps, no libraries here there and everywhere, just nice and straightfoward.

I like the look of Aperture and would be happy enough to stop using iPhoto completely if it meant it was just me, that one simple folder and Aperture working with my pics. Nothing else. No duplicates. No importing from an iPhoto library to Aperture - just ONE location on my iMac where all my photos are stored!

Is there any kind soul out there who can guide me to the light at the end of the tunnel, if there is one? How do I achieve this blissful simplicity I'm craving?

Thanks.

Why on earth would you want to use both Aperture and iPhoto?
Aperture and iPhoto both make duplicate thumbnails and previews of your images. You really don't need Aperture unless you are a hobbyist or professional who shoots in a Raw format, or uses an SLR.
But if you would watch the tutorial videos on apple.com you will find that Aperture can reference photos and keep them outside the aperture library. And in iPhoto go to preferences and uncheck the "copy to iphoto library" box.

another thing you could do is get used to how iphoto and aperture manage your photos, or go back to windows.

 

[Hello.there]

Why on earth would you want to use both Aperture and iPhoto?

I don't! That's the point! As I said, I started out using iPhoto and didn't like it, so now I've started using Aperture. But Aperture imported everything from the iPhoto library and now I seem to have duplicates and libraries all over the place. I only want to use Aperture, but need to know how I can have just one folder/library for my photos - can I get rid of the iPhoto library so I just have one folder for Aperture??

You really don't need Aperture unless you are a hobbyist or professional who shoots in a Raw format, or uses an SLR.

I'm a hobbyist who uses an SLR.

And in iPhoto go to preferences and uncheck the "copy to iphoto library" box.

Excellent, I'll do that.

another thing you could do is get used to how iphoto and aperture manage your photos, or go back to windows.

Oh dear, charmingly helpful

 

[law guy]

Helllllllllllllllllllllllllllllp!

I promise, this isn't another 'should I use iPhoto or Aperture or Lightroom to organise my photos' thread. But....I started out using iPhoto and didn't like it, so now I'm trying the Aperture 2 trial. But my photos seem to be all over the place on my computer, duplicates everywhere, I don't know where anything is, it's sheer CHAOS!

All I want is for my photos to be in one simple folder, not shared between apps, no libraries here there and everywhere, just nice and straightfoward.

I like the look of Aperture and would be happy enough to stop using iPhoto completely if it meant it was just me, that one simple folder and Aperture working with my pics. Nothing else. No duplicates. No importing from an iPhoto library to Aperture - just ONE location on my iMac where all my photos are stored!

Is there any kind soul out there who can guide me to the light at the end of the tunnel, if there is one? How do I achieve this blissful simplicity I'm craving?

Thanks.

That does sound troubling, and I can understand why something that you hope will be easy could drive you close to tears when it appears to all go wrong (flashback to a painful wi-fi network configuration). Did you, in Aperture, tell it to "import iPhoto library" or something along those lines under one of the drop down menus? If so, did you set it so that when you put a new card in your reader / connect your camera Aperture is the default application and the new photos get imported into Aperture?

With those two steps, your whole library from iPhoto should be in your Aperture library and new photos would go there as well.

Could you describe the problem a bit more? Did all your files not transfer into your Aperture library? Where are the duplicates that you are seeing?

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

what I would do is just trash your aperture library (unless of course there are important photos that only exist in that library) then I would, in aperture, go to import iphoto library. and then after the import is totally done. Trash the iphoto library. (empty trash)

and sorry about the go back to windows comment. It just seems that when people want to manually organize their folder structures, instead of the way their mac application does it, it's because they have an old windows habit that they won't let die.

(ironically I can't give you better instructions on aperture, because currently I am on my windows vista partition via bootcamp.)

 

[ChrisA]

I don't! That's the point! As I said, I started out using iPhoto and didn't like it, so now I've started using Aperture. But Aperture imported everything from the iPhoto library and now I seem to have duplicates and libraries all over the place. I only want to use Aperture, but need to know how I can have just one folder/library for my photos - can I get rid of the iPhoto library so I just have one folder for Aperture??

Aperture as two methods of importing an iPhoto library. It can duplicate everything or it can leave the photos in the iPhoto library and only keep previews in the new Aperture library. By default it does the first method. Looks like you used the default method.

If you intend to migrate to Aperture. You would choose the fist method (duplicate everything) and then after you were sure it worked you would trash the iPhoto library. Then you'd have only one library like you want. You just have to decide when you are comfortable enough with Aperture that you can trash the iPhoto library. (I'd archive it rather than trash it, just to be safe)

 

[Hello.there]

Law_guy, tuffluffjimmy and ChrisA, thank you all so much - your combined advice has stopped me throwing my iMac out the upstairs window, which is a very good thing.

It looks, then, like my self-inflicted chaos has been caused partly by not making Aperture my default application and partly by ending up having two libraries of the same photos after importing everything from iPhoto to Aperture. I’ll get to work on sorting that out!

ChrisA, I’ll take your advice on thinking twice about deleting the iPhoto library, I have most of the photos copied on to discs anyway but I’ll make sure everything’s backed up before I do anything drastic.

Thanks again you three, really appreciate the help. What was that song? "No More Tears Enough Is Enough."

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Law_guy, tuffluffjimmy and ChrisA, thank you all so much - your combined advice has stopped me throwing my iMac out the upstairs window, which is a very good thing.

It looks, then, like my self-inflicted chaos has been caused partly by not making Aperture my default application and partly by ending up having two libraries of the same photos after importing everything from iPhoto to Aperture. I’ll get to work on sorting that out!

ChrisA, I’ll take your advice on thinking twice about deleting the iPhoto library, I have most of the photos copied on to discs anyway but I’ll make sure everything’s backed up before I do anything drastic.

Thanks again you three, really appreciate the help. What was that song? "No More Tears Enough Is Enough."

one more thing, if you want to keep all of your photos in your own folder that you organize then you can import the iPhoto Library into Aperture, but somewhere on the import dialogue there is a setting to import and copy the files to a folder in the finder, this way your photos aren't all locked up in a Library. (Note I would advise against this as you may accidentally move something, which could really make you sore)
of course this option would copy your iPhoto Library, thus making two libraries (your first problem), so then I would make a complete back up of your iPhoto Library, save it to a two layer DVD, or external hard disk, pending on its size. Then delete it from your computer.

 

[The Past]

Okay, one more thing which you should consider (may be you have, already). If you choose to keep only Aperture library, unless you export version/master out of Aperture, there is no elegant way to get to your pics for use without Aperture.

Say, you back-up your Aperture library and take that with you away from a computer with Aperture installed. Then the way to get to your pics, if you need them while away, will be to do "show package contents" up to thrice for each picture (depending on how your projects are organized). That is a waste of time and bothersome.

So, whatever you do, please have the originals handy in a separate folder, away from Aperture. Sometimes all I need is a one-click access to a pic and that is it.

Here is what I do.

a. Insert card, drag the pics I want to import into a folder that I title the same way I want to title the project in Aperture.

b. Then I ask Aperture to "import folder into a project." That creates a project with the same name as the folder and imports all the pictures into Aperture library.

c. Then I drag the folder from step (a) into a separate place where I keep all my master images.

Now, no matter whether I am looking for just one pic without Aperture or looking for a pic in Aperture, I have to remember just one project name and life is good!

So, I end-up with just two things, an Aperture library that is all packaged into a single "file" and a master images folder that has ALL my images in sub-folders with the same names as the projects in Aperture.

Of course, YMMV.

 

[ChrisA]

So, whatever you do, please have the originals handy in a separate folder, away from Aperture. Sometimes all I need is a one-click access to a pic and that is it.

One click access? OK so I have may pictures outside of Aperture and I want the image of a hermit crab I shoot a few years ago. All I have to do is remember the date I shot the image and go right to that folder. Lets se it was summer or spring in 2004 or maybe 2006. Gosh there at 120 dated folders with 100 images each. How can I find the one I want with one click? OK I found it but there are 17 images of the crab and none of them have my color corrections or crops applied.

Quicker to simply go into Aperture and do a keyword search then export the image to the desktop.

Dated folders only work if either you don't shoot many images or you have a memory unlike mine.

So, I end-up with just two things, an Aperture library that is all packaged into a single "file" and a master images folder that has ALL my images in sub-folders with the same names as the projects in Aperture.

Aperture has an export mode where it will export each project into a folder with the folders named the same as the project. So you can re-create your set of folders any time you need them.

But the bigger problem is so you do find your image outside of Aperture. How will you color balance, sharpen and crop it. how will you convert the raw image to JPG? You will have to import it into Aperture to do all of that. Or maybe into Adobe Camera Raw. If you go back to the archive or raw files you don't have the metadata either.

The other thing you loose by putting your images into a folder first is time. Aperture has this nice feature where you can start working on your images while the download from the camer is still inprogress. I can sort and keyword my files seconds after the download starts and the download continues in the background while I work.

 

[Dorfdad]

Iphoto is a great application sadly it's horribly laid out and people miss many of the features and options available to them.. I happened across 2 or three great features I use daily which were not obvious to me...

 

[The Past]

Quicker to simply go into Aperture and do a keyword search then export the image to the desktop.

Good point. But hopefully others will get the drift of my point when I say Aperture is not available I may be implying that Aperture is not available. Anyway, no intention to take this off topic.

 

[BillG07]

Aperture library question

So I just got my first mac and am debating between iPhoto and Aperture for organizing my pics. I like having the ability to perform more advanced edits allowed in Aperture, but I'm not sure I like what I've read about the organization. If Aperture keeps them all in its library file, I am assuming I couldn't attach a picture to an email or quickly move one to a flash drive. Is that correct?

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

So I just got my first mac and am debating between iPhoto and Aperture for organizing my pics. I like having the ability to perform more advanced edits allowed in Aperture, but I'm not sure I like what I've read about the organization. If Aperture keeps them all in its library file, I am assuming I couldn't attach a picture to an email or quickly move one to a flash drive. Is that correct?

you can manually manage your images and have aperture reference them.

or I believe there is a button in aperture that sends the images to mail directly.

 

[147798]

So I just got my first mac and am debating between iPhoto and Aperture for organizing my pics. I like having the ability to perform more advanced edits allowed in Aperture, but I'm not sure I like what I've read about the organization. If Aperture keeps them all in its library file, I am assuming I couldn't attach a picture to an email or quickly move one to a flash drive. Is that correct?

If you are a serious shooter w/lots of pics coming in and you work in RAW, you'll appreciate Aperture a lot. If you are more a hobbyist, and shoot jpgs, stick w/iPhoto for a while first. It is free, after all

iPhoto will manage your photos for you (actually, it really must manage your photos. It doesn't reference photos outside it's database very well). If, later, you decide you want to work w/Ap, it will easily move your library over from iPhoto.

Given that you already have iPhoto, give that a whirl first. One nice thing about iPhoto is, if you want a copy of the photo, you just drag it to your desktop.

Here's my personal preferences in iPhoto:
First, in preferences, I set "double click to edit" Then I set edit in full screen

Then, when I launch full screen, I go up to the view menu, and on the bottom of the menu is "thumbnails" I set thumbnails to open on the top, and deselect "always show" so that way they hide when I don't need them.

This gives me a really nice environment to edit. Three useful keystrokes when working with pictures in iPhoto:
press "a" to bring up adjustments
press command-i to bring up photo info
press command-k to bring up keywords
You can press any one of these keys again to make the pop-up disappear

iPhoto is actually a really nice little application. And, honestly, it works with my RAW shots just fine. I think it's just poorly documented.

Last note: Photoshop Elements 6 is coming out next month. It will have more editing capabilities than Aperture, including some really cool features. Check this out: http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshopelmac/features/#item2

I'm waiting for elements 6 myself. I know I will get that. I'll use that with iPhoto and then decide on Aperture. But to be honest, iPhoto is so lightweight and easy to use that, unless you are a serious photographer, you might find it meets your needs. But, give it a month or so to learn it. Visit the video tutorials on Apple's site http://www.apple.com/ilife/tutorials/#iphoto and see what you think.

 

[jakfrost]

If you are a serious shooter w/lots of pics coming in and you work in RAW, you'll appreciate Aperture a lot. If you are more a hobbyist, and shoot jpgs, stick w/iPhoto for a while first. It is free, after all

iPhoto will manage your photos for you (actually, it really must manage your photos. It doesn't reference photos outside it's database very well). If, later, you decide you want to work w/Ap, it will easily move your library over from iPhoto.

Here's my personal preferences in iPhoto:
First, in preferences, I set "double click to edit" Then I set edit in full screen

Then, when I launch full screen, I go up to the view menu, and on the bottom of the menu is "thumbnails" I set thumbnails to open on the top, and deselect "always show" so that way they hide when I don't need them.

This gives me a really nice environment to edit. Three useful keystrokes when working with pictures in iPhoto:
press "a" to bring up adjustments
press command-i to bring up photo info
press command-k to bring up keywords
You can press any one of these keys again to make the pop-up disappear

http://www.apple.com/ilife/tutorials/#iphoto and see what you think.

BKING, I was doing a
search looking for information on how best to organize a system to prevent a repeat of a recent loss of an entire years worth of photo media, and liked how informative your post was, so thought I would ask you...

I like to empty the card into the computer after every 'event' but it isn't always and 'event', if you know what I mean. I might find the sunrise particularly impressive and take a few shots, then want to clear the card.

I had been using windoze for many years prior to switching to the 24" a couple of months ago, it was during the migration that the loss occurred, and have been playing around with both iPhoto and Aperture, no favorite so far...

I can't afford to burn the 'every other day dozen' images I might upload to a CD or DVD, plus I would have stacks of discs with 25-50 GB on them...and hundreds of 'events' in iPhoto .

How do I keep the card clean and not risk loosing the media again? Does everyone just take a chance and only burn every 30 days or so?

There must be a simple routine that would help prevent too much exposure to loss...without being ridiculous .

Do you have a routine you could share?

Thanks,

Jim

 

[147798]

I think what you are trying to ask is a good question, though I'm having a little trouble following your specifics.

Here's what I do for back-up. I can't say it's fool-proof, though.

I have an iMac, MacBook and an external drive. I use iPhoto Library Manager (Google for it) to synch my events and folders between my iMac and MacBook, so right there, I've got a back-up.

I also download back-up copies to my external drive periodically (which, technically means "when I remember"). I have burned some older pics to a DVD data disk. I also am making books out of my favorite photos each year, so I have physical hard copy.

I'm a little philosophical about photos and videos. Many of us are taking all these pictures for posterity but, if we are honest with ourselves, do we really think our jpegs will be readable by a computer 20 years hence (at least without a massive conversion effort). So, I'm definitely putting my favs to paper (and hope the paper holds through the years!)

I also use the iPhoto library back up utility found here: http://web.mac.com/toad.hall/ToadsCellar/ToadsCellar.html. It's a little script that backs up your iPhoto library database structure, which apparently is the most common problem with iPhoto corruption.

When I first started using iPhoto, I definitely got the grey-screen exclamation point of dread (tm), and had to rebuild my library. After spending about two months on this board and discussions.apple.com iphoto board, I finally figured out how to work with iPhoto. The two biggest issues with iPhoto are 1) you really MUST work the way iPhoto wants to work. It's not tremendously flexible, and 2) iPhoto is not well documented. Most the problems I've seen come from Windoze users trying to use iPhoto like Picasa. iPhoto just won't play that game.

I haven't had a single lost photo or library corrupt issue with iPhoto since September of last year, but I certainly had to rework my own thinking. Since allowing myself to be iPhoto lobotomized, I'm much happier now

BKING, I was doing a
search looking for information on how best to organize a system to prevent a repeat of a recent loss of an entire years worth of photo media, and liked how informative your post was, so thought I would ask you...

I like to empty the card into the computer after every 'event' but it isn't always and 'event', if you know what I mean. I might find the sunrise particularly impressive and take a few shots, then want to clear the card.

I had been using windoze for many years prior to switching to the 24" a couple of months ago, it was during the migration that the loss occurred, and have been playing around with both iPhoto and Aperture, no favorite so far...

I can't afford to burn the 'every other day dozen' images I might upload to a CD or DVD, plus I would have stacks of discs with 25-50 GB on them...and hundreds of 'events' in iPhoto .

How do I keep the card clean and not risk loosing the media again? Does everyone just take a chance and only burn every 30 days or so?

There must be a simple routine that would help prevent too much exposure to loss...without being ridiculous .

Do you have a routine you could share?

Thanks,

Jim

 

[ChrisA]

I can't afford to burn the 'every other day dozen' images I might upload to a CD or DVD, plus I would have stacks of discs with 25-50 GB on them...and hundreds of 'events' in iPhoto .

How do I keep the card clean and not risk loosing the media again? Does everyone just take a chance and only burn every 30 days or so?

There must be a simple routine that would help prevent too much exposure to loss...without being ridiculous .

The rule of thumb if you want to prevent data loss is..

• The data must always exist on at least three different media and,
• The data must always be store at, at least two different geographical locations

You need three copies because when one fails (not "if it fails" but when) you still want even then to have a backup. You do need to keep a copy off-site to protect against fire or theft of computer equipment.


Any plan that does the above will work. For practical reasons you may need to keep four copies. Time machine makes it easy to have two copies, it is automatic and easy to use. Simply let it backup your iPhoto library. You can then periodically make backups to a couple other hard drives or if you don't have enough hard drives make a backup set to DVD periodically. I did this for a while always taking the DVDs to work with me. After a a few sets were made I'd toss out the oldest set. If you get tiered of burning DVDs you will buy a a couple small hard drives.

Yes it is expensive because you need to by 4X the storage. but the last drive I bought as a 500Gb for $100. That's 20 cents per GB. Use Time machine AND in addtion, rotate backup drives through some off site location.

 

[jakfrost]

Thanks Chris...good info. I will invest in another HD, and if I upload all photos to that and then pick the ones to go to iPhoto or Aperture it might cut down on the clutter in iPhoto/Aperture Libraries...no?

Wonder if that would work...then I would have a copy of every picture I ever took on that HD, but only the ones I 'think' I want in the apps libraries, and backed up further as you suggest on Time Machine, DVD's etc.

Jim

PS I downloaded the freeware 'iPhoto Library Manager', looks like it might be a valuable asset, thanks BKING.

 

[CrackedButter]

and sorry about the go back to windows comment. It just seems that when people want to manually organize their folder structures, instead of the way their mac application does it, it's because they have an old windows habit that they won't let die.

I manually organise my folders because I want to organise it my way, when I do use iPhoto, Aperture and Lightroom, I never use their libraries, I use mine because they don't do it my way nor do I want duplication.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I manually organise my folders because I want to organise it my way, when I do use iPhoto, Aperture and Lightroom, I never use their libraries, I use mine because they don't do it my way nor do I want duplication.

but the thing about that is that there is no need for you to manually manage your photos or for you to care how the application manages it. If you think about it don't have a point at all. To avoid duplications import the photos directly in the application from your camera so you don't have to import twice (from the finder, then into photo organizer). Or if you already have the photos on your computer just delete the photo after importing it, or (I'm pretty sure there is an option for this) move the photo instead of copying to the library.

EDIT: Why do you use aperture and lightroom? Do you even need either of those Apps?

 

[CrackedButter]

but the thing about that is that there is no need for you to manually manage your photos or for you to care how the application manages it. If you think about it don't have a point at all. To avoid duplications import the photos directly in the application from your camera so you don't have to import twice (from the finder, then into photo organizer). Or if you already have the photos on your computer just delete the photo after importing it, or (I'm pretty sure there is an option for this) move the photo instead of copying to the library.

EDIT: Why do you use aperture and lightroom? Do you even need either of those Apps?

I use Aperture and Lightroom because I believe in being flexible when looking for jobs in the photographic market, I'm making myself much more knowledgeable and sellable than the people who choose one or the other between those two programs. I need both of those Apps, yes.

 

[ChrisA]

but the thing about that is that there is no need for you to manually manage your photos or for you to care how the application manages it. If you think about it don't have a point at all. To avoid duplications import the photos directly in the application from your camera so you don't have to import twic

I used to say the same thing. But the problem is that many people don't understand "libraries". They don't know how it works and don't trust what they don't understand. Along those lines I know someone who walks the digital camera down to the drug store and hands it over the counter to have prints made. Doesn't understand computers. I could explain to him but it doesn't work. I lot of people here don't understand "asset management" you can try and explain but you have to let them come along at their own speed.

 

[Hello.there]

I used to say the same thing. But the problem is that many people don't understand "libraries".

Which is why they come here looking for help. I don't think anyone's born with an innate knowledge of how these things work, they can try to learn themselves but it's much better if someone takes the time to help them out, as so many generous people do on this forum.

After years of storing my photos in a nice neat (Windows) folder it took a big leap to get to understand how Aperture works, but I'm getting there thanks to the advice I've got here. That's why it's such a great forum.

 

[mcarnes]

tuffluffjimmy, where you at boy? I'm in Portland, Oregon also.