Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
[UK] Landlords must show energy rating
- Thread starter edesignuk
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
With the Bradford and Bingley gone and now this it won't be long before the landlords will be handing their deeds over to the tenants to take the place off their hands.
Took him a while, but it looks like Brown is finally implementing some good old fashioned Labour wealth redistribution
Took him a while, but it looks like Brown is finally implementing some good old fashioned Labour wealth redistribution
How many tenants will look at it or even care? It's going to cost the landlords £100 to get this certificate which is hardly going to break the bank. Just another pointless eco-sounding initiative.
The more I think about it the more laughable it is. As if any landlord is going to spend thousands of £s to get into a slightly better band on this survey. Even if they went from band G to band A they are only going to be able to charge a few more £s a month at best. Once again the government fails to actually think it through.
I might care, with gas/electricity being as expensive as it is a well rated place could save a significant amount.
But as you say, landlords aren't going to give a monkeys.
Would you care enough to pay, say, £25 a month more in rent for an otherwise identical place? That's £300 a year which is a whole lot of gas/electricity. If you're not willing to pay £25 a month more I can't see the landlord getting a viable return on an investment to move up the grading scale...
Edit: £300 a year more rental income's not really going to interest many landlords if they have to invest £3000 on a new boiler is it? As it's not going to increase the value of the property by £3000 so they basically loose that money...
A certificate doesn't mean crap. Having the landlord do something about holes in windows, windows painted shut, dangerous boilers or non-insulated property (things I experienced as a student, in all cases with landlords who refused to do anything until legally 'obliged' to ) would be good, but of course, this is another law that tries to look as if it's doing something, without actually achieving anything.
Doug
I don't know if you guys across the pond get this, but when we go to buy an appliance, it's usually got a sticker on it that says about how much it will cost per year to run. Would information like this be included, i.e. you can expect to pay X $/£ per year for water, gas, etc? That would be more useful information to have instead of using just an arbitrary lettering scale.
Whereas here if we buy an appliance it's got a letter between A and G on it.
And given that they prices charged by different utility companies varies (and you have a choice which one supplies you at a given property) and the prices are currently varying quickly that info would be very difficult to calculate accurately.
L
Lau
Guest
Unfortunately, in part because The Evil Thatch™ started privatising all our utilities, there are several million different electricity companies, and several million gas providers. Confusingly, electricity providers sometimes also supply gas, and gas providers sometimes also supply electricity. All of this happens at different prices, and if you're poor or have credit problems, they can fit a pre-pay meter that means you have to pay a higher rate per unit of power from each of the million prices...
</rant>
In other words, there's no way of working out how much such a thing would cost, as everyone pays completely different amounts for it.
Edit: Ooh, what Mr. Duncan said, but more ranty.
Unfortunately, in part because The Evil Thatch started privatising all our utilities, there are several million different electricity companies, and several million gas providers. Confusingly, electricity providers sometimes also supply gas, and gas providers sometimes also supply electricity. All of this happens at different prices, and if you're poor or have credit problems, they can fit a pre-pay meter that means you have to pay a higher rate per unit of power from each of the million prices...
</rant>
In other words, there's no way of working out how much such a thing would cost, as everyone pays completely different amounts for it.
Edit: Ooh, what Mr. Duncan said, but more ranty.
Wow. Do you guys not have a Public Service Commission or the equivalent? I've never had a choice who I use for utilities. For example, if you want electricity in my area, you have to go Alabama Power (subsidiary of Southern Company), but the PSC regulates them as to what rates they can charge as well as dispute handling.
I've never heard of charging different rates for the same usage - here every residential customer pays the same.
A rough average would still be nice.
Are you sure of this? Once word gets out that A rated buildings cost a LOT less to heat people will pay for that. The price of energy will only go up over time so being in an A rated building protects you from future energy price hikes. I doubt many people care now but as the public gets educated on this they will care
In places or times when there is a surplus of rental housing this system will force landlords to upgrade so as to make their property more attractive. But if there is a shortage it will have little effect. Surpluses and shortages go through cycles, so after a couple cycles all the buildig will be upgraded. Buildings have a quite long lifetime so upgrades even if small do pay off
Gas is priced at one rate over the whole country, but it is traded on something like a stock exchange between all the companies, this cost then gets passed onto the consumer.
Electricity pricing is different depending on which region you are in, someone in the South East will pay more than someone in the North West.
Electricity is still traded on the energy markets and bought in, but can't be stored quite like gas can so companies can buy lots of gas cheap and store it and then transport it to the customer.
ChrisA said:
indeed, given that energy prices are likely to continue to rise over the coming decades, one perhaps could be forgiven for thinking that the Government should perhaps insist that new builds should be more efficient, and ecologically sound, with their own energy making capabilities. instead, marvel at the hideously (not to mention aesthetically hideous) inefficient, orange, brick built, 3 storey faux-Georgian townhouses that continue to be erected en masse.
In Europe, wholesale gas prices are linked to oil prices. Which wouldn't be much of a concern for us, if we didn't have to buy it back every winter of course. That's right, unlike somewhere like France for example, we don't actually have anywhere near the levels of capacity to store the excess gas we produce during the spring/summers months, so we sell it to the continent cheap instead, and which we then have to buy back come the winter months at the more expensive european rate.
indeed, given that energy prices are likely to continue to rise over the coming decades, one perhaps could be forgiven for thinking that the Government should perhaps insist that new builds should be more efficient, and ecologically sound, with their own energy making capabilities. instead, marvel at the hideously (not to mention aesthetically hideous) inefficient, orange, brick built, 3 storey faux-Georgian townhouses that continue to be erected en masse.
In Europe, wholesale gas prices are linked to oil prices. Which wouldn't be much of a concern for us, if we didn't have to buy it back every winter of course. That's right, unlike somewhere like France for example, we don't actually have anywhere near the levels of capacity to store the excess gas we produce during the spring/summers months, so we sell it to the continent cheap instead, and which we then have to buy back come the winter months at the more expensive european rate.
That was true back when the North Sea provided most of our supply, but as we are now more dependent on European piplelines that's not the case anymore, big companies like EDF and E-ON have the storage capacity to store a lot, but most of that is in Germany or France, the Norwegian pipelines that supply a lot of our gas is sold on a ad-hoc basis whereas the French and German markets have longterm fixed contracts for interconnected supplies. This country does have storage capacity but its not in the interests of EDF or E-On to store in this country.
Edit: Oh and our energy prices are still cheaper for the average consumer than those on the continent, simple fact: Competition! We also were used to a lot cheaper energy due to our own supplies, that however has dried up, hence the price hikes. Our prices also follows Germany's which is the only other country to have Energy Markets like ours.
I'm sure they did think it through. I'm sure they had tonnes of meetings and consultants and all sorts of other job justifying talks about it.
And to the guy talking about 'evil thatch' and her privatisation - Not ignoring the fact that all our utility companies are crap, I don't think our government has anywhere near the competance to run one efficiently.
I don't know what's going on though, the PM was on the telly recently telling me how to be good with my money - it's some kind of helarious joke...
It remains true, whilst the UK is now an overall net gas importer (largely thanks to a lack of storage, though it would have been inevitable anyway in the coming years), we are also a gas exporter. In fact according to an article I read, the pipelines between the UK and the continent are "primarily used for exporting gas".
European utility companies do take advantage of our lower prices, because (unlike Russian exporters for example) our product is not priced relative to oil. But it remains a fact that the gas that we do produce, is sold to the continent when domestic demand falls (usually during the summer months), and at a cheaper rate, simply because we lack the capacity to store it.
It is this very lack of capacity that prevents us from not only storing the gas we produce during the months when demand falls, but which also prevents us from buying cheaper gas during the summer months, meaning that we're then subjected to having to pay higher prices sourcing our gas from the continent during winter.
Now I wonder why that is?
It was reported on SKY News during the recent round of price hikes, UK storage as being somewhere in the region of 4% of annual consumption, or about 2 weeks worth, unlike France which apparently has 25% or somewhere in the region of 3 months (almost enough to cover winter). It's this lack of storage capacity that is also contributing to our higher gas bills.
It remains true, whilst the UK is now an overall net gas importer (largely thanks to a lack of storage, though it would have been inevitable anyway in the coming years), we are also a gas exporter. In fact according to an article I read, the pipelines between the UK and the continent are "primarily used for exporting gas".
European utility companies do take advantage of our lower prices, because (unlike Russian exporters for example) our product is not priced relative to oil. But it remains a fact that the gas that we do produce, is sold to the continent when domestic demand falls (usually during the summer months), and at a cheaper rate, simply because we lack the capacity to store it.
It is this very lack of capacity that prevents us from not only storing the gas we produce during the months when demand falls, but which also prevents us from buying cheaper gas during the summer months, meaning that we're then subjected to having to pay higher prices sourcing our gas from the continent during winter.
Now I wonder why that is?
It was reported on SKY News during the recent round of price hikes, UK storage as being somewhere in the region of 4% of annual consumption, or about 2 weeks worth, unlike France which apparently has 25% or somewhere in the region of 3 months (almost enough to cover winter). It's this lack of storage capacity that is also contributing to our higher gas bills.
Sky news ... ha! while that may be true, as a market we do use it a lot more than France for instance. It may be true that we will need storage capacity going forward, my company owns the Rough storage facility. But it's not the reasons behind the price hikes.
And we, as a country, are net importers not exporters. Might be true for Oil from Scotland but not Gas. The Norwegian supply is very volatile, sometimes not delivering nearly enough supply as we need because it's been diverted to the Continent.
E.ON confirm it as well.
"At present, the UK can only store around 4% of our annual gas consumption, compared to Germany and France who have the capacity to cover over 20% of their needs."
Sky News is vindicated.
It's not the reason no, but it is a contributory factor. Unlike many european countries, we're a gas producer, that was until only 4 years ago, capable of not only meeting our own usage demands, but also selling the surplus to the continent.
Obviously as our stocks dwindle, our reliance on imports will increase, but what stocks we do have, should be used to alleviate the prices in our own country, not sold on the cheap to oil the cogs of the obscene profit machines of our european neighbours because we're unable to store it, only to expose us to the higher continent prices later in the year when our demand increases and we have to buy it back.
It's basic economics, beautifully exploited by the energy companies in their own favour, particularly by the likes of E.ON, E.ON UK is the most profitable of all of their subsidiary siblings, a situation I would suspect that E.ON AG is only too pleased with. No wonder it's "not in the interests" for them to consider increasing their storage capabilities here.
We are. But would we currently be if we could actually store all of what we produce but do not use? that is the question.
To quote a recent Times article.
"While there are several gas pipelines linking Britain to the Continent, these are still being used primarily to export British gas. Most of the gas in countries such as Germany and the Netherlands is secured from the likes of Russias Gazprom on long-term contracts that are priced relative to oil. Soaring crude costs have pushed gas prices higher across continental Europe. So European utilities have been sourcing UK gas at lower prices via the pipelines."
An utterly incomprehensible situation.
Indeed, but the importance of that reliance would be alleviated if we actually had the capacity to store all the gas that we actually produced, as any disruption in supply would be compensated for by our own stocks.
Of course, our usage demands would drop like a stone, if the Government legislated to ban the construction of inefficient, orange, brick built, 3 storey faux-Georgian townhouses. *Shudders*
What about all those abandoned mine-shafts in Wales??
Put a membrane in them, and store your gas there.
Put a membrane in them, and store your gas there.