Unable to boot from Hard drive on Early Intel Mac Pro 2009

[kristeva]

Hi all,

Apologies if this is in the wrong section of the forum.

I have two bootable HD's in my Mac Pro, early 2009, 3.46 GHz 6 core Intel Xeon - the original HD running Mac OS 10.10 which I no longer use and a 1TB SSD which I'm pretty sure is running OS 10.13. I've been using this SSD as my main bootable drive for about 5 years now.

A couple of days back the cursor froze and I had to force shut down the computer, on restart I got the utilities recovery screen. I scanned the SSD with utilities and it reported back a clean bill of health, but I'm no longer able to boot the SSD drive - the Apple logo appeared and then a circle with a line through it, and then it booted to my original HD (which I'm now using). When I go to 'Startup Disk' in system preferences the SSD is not recognised at all.

I understand this circle with a line through means the SSD contains an OS not suitable for my computer, how has this happened?

Any tips as to how to fix this would be greatly appreciated.

I've got a fairly recent back up on time machine on an external hard drive.

Many thanks. P

 

[KeesMacPro]

Hi ,

You could install DriveDX to check the health of the 10.13 SSD.
It's a very efficient app for drive diagnostics.

A forced shutdown could have corrupted the drive.
The question is why did your MP freeze ?

Did you check the NorthBridge rivets and/or are you monitoring Temps with e.g. MacsFanControl?
What BootROM version is running at the moment?

If you could provide some more info about the hardware installed and/or post some screenshots that would be very helpful for the reader ; )

 

[kristeva]

Hi ,

You could install DriveDX to check the health of the 10.13 SSD.
It's a very efficient app for drive diagnostics.

A forced shutdown could have corrupted the drive.
The question is why did your MP freeze ?

Did you check the NorthBridge rivets and/or are you monitoring Temps with e.g. MacsFanControl?
What BootROM version is running at the moment?

If you could provide some more info about the hardware installed and/or post some screenshots that would be very helpful for the reader ; )

Hi, thanks for the reply.

Earlier today I managed to do a clean install of OS Sierra on the SSD and got back on to the desktop. Prior to this I encountered the dreaded greyed out circle with a slash again. I hope it will be ok when I next reboot the drive.

Here's the BootROM version:



I'll definitely look into monitoring temps, I always try and keep the interior dust free as much as possible. May I ask, what are the NorthBridge rivets?

 

[KeesMacPro]

You're very welcome!

Earlier today I managed to do a clean install of OS Sierra on the SSD and got back on to the desktop.

Good idea, as for an unknown reason, your BootROM version doesnt correspond with a native High Sierra install.
Perhaps High Sierra (10.13 ) was a patched install ; this would also explain the prohibit sign for the SSD if the install got corrupted.

What I would recommend is install High Sierra on the SSD to get BootROM MP51.0089.B00 first.
Then you could check the SSD with DriveDX , if all OK , import all your data from the TM backup by using Migration Assistant.
Problem solved.

I'll definitely look into monitoring temps, I always try and keep the interior dust free as much as possible. May I ask, what are the NorthBridge rivets?

The NorthBridge heatsink construction is the Achilles Heel of the Mac Pro 4,1/5,1.
The heatsink is attached to the NB die with 2 plastic rivets/pushpins and they tend to break over time (these fantastic machines are resilient but still 13 years old).
Resulting in an unsafe NB Temp, so the MP gets slow,freezes and shuts down (or at least should ).
With the single CPU, the NB is covered completely by the CPU heatsink, so a visual check is impossible.
You could install e.g. MacsFanControl and watch the Delta NB heatsink- NB diode (and post a screenshot).
Delta should be ~ 12 Celsius max.

I consider it a standard procedure to replace the pushpins when I got my hands on a MP 4,1/5,1 , especially when repasting/upgrading the CPU.
There are different views on how to replace them, but IMHO the most practical/solid/cheap option is to buy 2 x M3x16mm screws, nuts and washers made of steel or nylon ,repaste the NB heatsink and fix it with the new screws using the original springs that were on the pushpins.

Btw: I'd remove the Serial number from your screenshot ; )

 

[kristeva]

You're very welcome!


Good idea, as for an unknown reason, your BootROM version doesnt correspond with a native High Sierra install.
Perhaps High Sierra (10.13 ) was a patched install ; this would also explain the prohibit sign for the SSD if the install got corrupted.

What I would recommend is install High Sierra on the SSD to get BootROM MP51.0089.B00 first.
Then you could check the SSD with DriveDX , if all OK , import all your data from the TM backup by using Migration Assistant.
Problem solved.


The NorthBridge heatsink construction is the Achilles Heel of the Mac Pro 4,1/5,1.
The heatsink is attached to the NB die with 2 plastic rivets/pushpins and they tend to break over time (these fantastic machines are resilient but still 13 years old).
Resulting in an unsafe NB Temp, so the MP gets slow,freezes and shuts down (or at least should ).
With the single CPU, the NB is covered completely by the CPU heatsink, so a visual check is impossible.
You could install e.g. MacsFanControl and watch the Delta NB heatsink- NB diode (and post a screenshot).
Delta should be ~ 12 Celsius max.

I consider it a standard procedure to replace the pushpins when I got my hands on a MP 4,1/5,1 , especially when repasting/upgrading the CPU.
There are different views on how to replace them, but IMHO the most practical/solid/cheap option is to buy 2 x M3x16mm screws, nuts and washers made of steel or nylon ,repaste the NB heatsink and fix it with the new screws using the original springs that were on the pushpins.

Btw: I'd remove the Serial number from your screenshot ; )

Thanks!

I think I was initially Yosemite before upgrading to Sierra via the Apple website. So your saying to get the correct BootROM I need to wipe the SSD and do a clean install of Sierra first before importing all my data from TM?

Heres a screenshot of my temps:

I've always wondered if overheating was a problem with my Mac, I guess there are a few 'How to...' videos on Youtube regarding this Northbridge mod?

I love this computer, I upgraded it considerably 3 or 4 years ago because I like to edit high res photographs. I'll never sell it but I also know at some point I'll need to invest in another Mac as software progresses. I'm not sure this computer can support many newer versions of OS. I just wanted to ask which Mac Pro would you recommend me buy in the future (second hand) to enable use of newer OS / software? Would you go to the Trash can models or am I better off building my own (Hackintosh)? Thanks for your help on all this, much appreciated. P

 

[KeesMacPro]

So your saying to get the correct BootROM I need to wipe the SSD and do a clean install of Sierra first before importing all my data from TM?

I'm not sure we're referring to the same OS version.
To avoid confusion : Sierra = 10.12 and High Sierra = 10.13

Some OS versions come with a BootROM update , Sierra doesnt but High Sierra does.
Generally it's better to get the latest BootROM version to avoid vulnerability and further benefits.
The latest OS natively supported on the MP 4,1/5,1 is Mojave and comes with an update that e.g. makes NVMe not only supported but also bootable.
The main requirement for Mojave is a Metal compatible GPU card.

Short version: If you had Sierra installed there's no bootrom upgrade.

Heres a screenshot of my temps:

Temps look good, just wondering why the NB diode is at 75 Celsius (quite high for a single CPU).
I guess this screenshot was not made at idle (?) ...
Another thing is PCIe slot 1 is showing 63 celsius , what is so hot in slot 1 if I may ask?

I've always wondered if overheating was a problem with my Mac,

The single CPU MP 4,1/5,1 generally stays very cool without any fan settings in e.g. MacsFanControl
You could set though Boost A fan : sensor NB diode , starting at 55 Celsius, max at 75 Celsius, this will keep all Temps nice and low .
If you want you can set both the Boost A and INTAKE fan as described above to get all T even lower and the other fans at auto.

I guess there are a few 'How to...' videos on Youtube regarding this Northbridge mod?

Yes, but as soon as you remove the CPU heatsink all will be clear.
Generally I'm taking YT videos with a big grain of salt ; )

Anyway just for maintenance, troubleshooting etc etc etc ,here's a link for the Technician Guide for your MP:

https://tim.id.au/laptops/apple/macpro/macpro_early2009.pdf

I love this computer, I upgraded it considerably 3 or 4 years ago because I like to edit high res photographs. I'll never sell it but I also know at some point I'll need to invest in another Mac as software progresses

The Mac Pros are beautifully made and very robuste machines : )
Like I said, Mojave is the latest natively supported OS version, nevertheless you could go up to the latest OS (Monterey) by installing OpenCore which may be a bit complicated and is not everybody's cup of tea : )

I just wanted to ask which Mac Pro would you recommend me buy in the future (second hand) to enable use of newer OS / software? Would you go to the Trash can models or am I better off building my own (Hackintosh)? Thanks for your help on all this, much appreciated. P

If you need and/or want the ultimate in OS and software , you could consider to buy a new Mac Mini, iMac or delike ( Apple Silicon).

Personally I think the trash can isnt worth the upgrade as it's not free of issues like heat and GPUs and risky or at least horrible to open and upgrade/ do some maintenance.

If your demands are not that far from what your MP can deliver I'd probably keep it for a while (more or less) as is and go for a used MP 7,1 in a few years, if expandability isnt important you could consider an iMac or Mac Mini.

I'm not working with graphics/video but with audio , so I'm not 100% sure what's best for your needs.
I believe the GPU and single Core (which is at max with X5690) performance are the main factors for your purposes.

Btw there's a dedicated thread for the Mac Pro here:

Mac Pro

Apple's professional workstation

forums.macrumors.com

 

[kristeva]

I'm not sure we're referring to the same OS version.
To avoid confusion : Sierra = 10.12 and High Sierra = 10.13

Some OS versions come with a BootROM update , Sierra doesnt but High Sierra does.
Generally it's better to get the latest BootROM version to avoid vulnerability and further benefits.
The latest OS natively supported on the MP 4,1/5,1 is Mojave and comes with an update that e.g. makes NVMe not only supported but also bootable.
The main requirement for Mojave is a Metal compatible GPU card.

Short version: If you had Sierra installed there's no bootrom upgrade.

Thanks again. Yes, I'm running 10.12 Sierra. Its good to know I can upgrade my OS further, not sure I got a 'metal GPU Card' though.

Temps look good, just wondering why the NB diode is at 75 Celsius (quite high for a single CPU).
I guess this screenshot was not made at idle (?) ...
Another thing is PCIe slot 1 is showing 63 celsius , what is so hot in slot 1 if I may ask?

Yes, it probably wasn't idle.

If I'm looking in the right place the PCI slot is showing NVIDIA GeForce GT 120

Yes, but as soon as you remove the CPU heatsink all will be clear.
Generally I'm taking YT videos with a big grain of salt ; )

Anyway just for maintenance, troubleshooting etc etc etc ,here's a link for the Technician Guide for your MP:

https://tim.id.au/laptops/apple/macpro/macpro_early2009.pdf

Cheers!!

If you need and/or want the ultimate in OS and software , you could consider to buy a new Mac Mini, iMac or delike ( Apple Silicon).

Personally I think the trash can isnt worth the upgrade as it's not free of issues like heat and GPUs and risky or at least horrible to open and upgrade/ do some maintenance.

If your demands are not that far from what your MP can deliver I'd probably keep it for a while (more or less) as is and go for a used MP 7,1 in a few years, if expandability isnt important you could consider an iMac or Mac Mini.

I'm not working with graphics/video but with audio , so I'm not 100% sure what's best for your needs.
I believe the GPU and single Core (which is at max with X5690) performance are the main factors for your purposes.

Btw there's a dedicated thread for the Mac Pro here:

Mac Pro

Apple's professional workstation

forums.macrumors.com

Yes, I wasn't sure about the trash cans at all, I think you're right, and if i do need to upgrade a 7,1 would suit my needs. Not too expensive either. I upgraded this 5,1 largely to handle very large photographic files, but I also use this computer for 'Hifi' duties too. I'll check that dedicated thread out.