Update iPhone via cellular

[M.PaulCezanne]

I have an unlimited data plan with speeds of 30-50Mbps down and 10-20Mbps up. I believe this is relatively common for everyone these days with any carrier (in certain locations, like - you know, MAJOR US CITIES). Does anyone know why Apple STILL won’t let us update iOS over cellular? Is it kickbacks from the major wired ISPs???

I refuse to pay Comcast another dime for any reason, much less at least $40/mo plus equipment just to occasionally update the OS on a mobile device.

 

[C DM]

Probably at least some of the older logic of perhaps not over saturating mobile networks if a lot of people try to update more or less at the same time (or basically in a short period of time).

 

[M.PaulCezanne]

But why should Apple care about that? That’s the cell network’s issue. Plus, they could always have the software prefer WiFi to cellular when it’s available, which it probably is for the majority of users.

 

[C DM]

But why should Apple care about that? That’s the cell network’s issue. Plus, they could always have the software prefer WiFi to cellular when it’s available, which it probably is for the majority of users.

They worked together with cellular providers on various aspects given that the devices have to work on those providers and the providers have (or at least had) some input into some things.

 

[M.PaulCezanne]

Well times certainlyhave changed. Bandwidth doesn’t seem to be a problem with unlimited streaming marketed everywhere you look. I guess they’re just reserving that for Netflix.

There’s no technical reason to keep this archaic policy. It’s very frustrating.

 

[Julien]

All other cell phone/firmware/OS updates (or NON updates in most cases) have always been handled by the Phone/cell service provider. It is probably in the TOS agreement between a hardware supplier and the service provider. Apple insisted from the beginning (2007) that they would handle their own updates (just like no AT&T type on device branding) to control the process. So this 'old' policy of bypassing the cell provider to update is still in effect.

 

[wmdunn]

I have an unlimited data plan with speeds of 30-50Mbps down and 10-20Mbps up. I believe this is relatively common for everyone these days with any carrier (in certain locations, like - you know, MAJOR US CITIES). Does anyone know why Apple STILL won’t let us update iOS over cellular? Is it kickbacks from the major wired ISPs???

I refuse to pay Comcast another dime for any reason, much less at least $40/mo plus equipment just to occasionally update the OS on a mobile device.

The way we get around it, is to use the hotspot on one of the other phones in the family. Connect, and now you're using wi-fi.

 

[M.PaulCezanne]

The way we get around it, is to use the hotspot on one of the other phones in the family. Connect, and now you're using wi-fi.

This doesn’t work for me.​

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All other cell phone/firmware/OS updates (or NON updates in most cases) have always been handled by the Phone/cell service provider. It is probably in the TOS agreement between a hardware supplier and the service provider. Apple insisted from the beginning (2007) that they would handle their own updates (just like no AT&T type on device branding) to control the process. So this 'old' policy of bypassing the cell provider to update is still in effect.

But the carrier doesn’t “handle” updates. It’s just an internet service provider. As far as the iPhone is concerned, it doesn’t (shouldn’t) know the difference between Internet over cellular and internet over a wired connection. IP is IP.

 

[fischersd]

But the carrier doesn’t “handle” updates. It’s just an internet service provider. As far as the iPhone is concerned, it doesn’t (shouldn’t) know the difference between Internet over cellular and internet over a wired connection. IP is IP.

But they used to. Before Apple, every handset maker had to get any updates tested and blessed by the carriers. It was a royal PITA as you wanted to get everyone all of the bug fixes and feature enhancements, but the carriers had to take their sweet time certifying the updates.

Apple changed all of that.

And, in terms of your phone being aware whether the data path is wifi or cellular - yes, it matters less now, but there are many reasons why the cell phone should be aware (one of them is wifi calling - if you're moving into a wifi dead zone, you want the phone to be aware of that and switch your conversation to cellular so it doesn't drop).

Also, many people don't have great data plans, so they still need to be able to have their phones only do certain functions over wifi, to minimize their monthly usage.

Here's an example that the carriers wouldn't like: A school board has the policy set that all of their iPads automatically download any updates as soon as they're available. They provide iPads to all of their students. So, when an update comes available from Apple, about 250,000 iPads in that city all download the update as soon as it's available from Apple's servers. Depending on the size of the update, this could cause service impact to a lot of subscribers in that city if the updates were downloaded over cellular.

This will eventually change....as the networks become more robust, speeds increasing, minimizing download duration.

But, given Verizon and Sprint can't even seem to get their CDMA networks migrated off, I wouldn't be holding my breath for it to happen tomorrow.

 

[M.PaulCezanne]

But they used to. Before Apple, every handset maker had to get any updates tested and blessed by the carriers. It was a royal PITA as you wanted to get everyone all of the bug fixes and feature enhancements, but the carriers had to take their sweet time certifying the updates.

Apple changed all of that.

And, in terms of your phone being aware whether the data path is wifi or cellular - yes, it matters less now, but there are many reasons why the cell phone should be aware (one of them is wifi calling - if you're moving into a wifi dead zone, you want the phone to be aware of that and switch your conversation to cellular so it doesn't drop).

Also, many people don't have great data plans, so they still need to be able to have their phones only do certain functions over wifi, to minimize their monthly usage.

Here's an example that the carriers wouldn't like: A school board has the policy set that all of their iPads automatically download any updates as soon as they're available. They provide iPads to all of their students. So, when an update comes available from Apple, about 250,000 iPads in that city all download the update as soon as it's available from Apple's servers. Depending on the size of the update, this could cause service impact to a lot of subscribers in that city if the updates were downloaded over cellular.

This will eventually change....as the networks become more robust, speeds increasing, minimizing download duration.

But, given Verizon and Sprint can't even seem to get their CDMA networks migrated off, I wouldn't be holding my breath for it to happen tomorrow.

All of that can be easily handled with software. In the in-house managed scenario, the updates are pushed by the IT department anyway. All they’d have to do is cut off OS updates, just like they do now.

And why would it matter that some people don’t have great cell service? They can use WiFi. I’m not saying change WiFi, I’m just saying allow cell service. I still don’t hear any rational argument to not allow this. Seriously - none at all.

 

[jav6454]

I have an unlimited data plan with speeds of 30-50Mbps down and 10-20Mbps up. I believe this is relatively common for everyone these days with any carrier (in certain locations, like - you know, MAJOR US CITIES). Does anyone know why Apple STILL won’t let us update iOS over cellular? Is it kickbacks from the major wired ISPs???

I refuse to pay Comcast another dime for any reason, much less at least $40/mo plus equipment just to occasionally update the OS on a mobile device.

The celullar restrictions were put in place back when the fastest commonly available speeds were HSDPA at 7.2 Mb/s theoretical speeds. That meant you actually only ever saw 4 to 5 Mb/s.

That said, network congestion back then was a real issue as the technology wasn't able to keep up with demand for multimedia usage being advertised.

Now? With 100 Mb/s connections (where we get 20-30 Mb/s on slow connections), and 5G on the horizon with 1 Gb/s speeds, I'd say it's time to ease such restrictions. You can't eliminate then as people will often abuse them.

 

[M.PaulCezanne]

The celullar restrictions were put in place back when the fastest commonly available speeds were HSDPA at 7.2 Mb/s theoretical speeds. That meant you actually only ever saw 4 to 5 Mb/s.

That said, network congestion back then was a real issue as the technology wasn't able to keep up with demand for multimedia usage being advertised.

Now? With 100 Mb/s connections (where we get 20-30 Mb/s on slow connections), and 5G on the horizon with 1 Gb/s speeds, I'd say it's time to ease such restrictions. You can't eliminate then as people will often abuse them.

Agreed. I see the need for reasonable restrictions but I see no reason to treat OS update data over a cell network differently from that over a wired network. It’s very frustrating as it’s literally the only reason for many of us to even consider handing money to Comcast (and their filthy bretheren).

 

[Julien]

...But the carrier doesn’t “handle” updates. It’s just an internet service provider. As far as the iPhone is concerned, it doesn’t (shouldn’t) know the difference between Internet over cellular and internet over a wired connection. IP is IP.

Really, try an Android. The carriers always had 100% control of a cell phone until Apple said they were going to control he experience. If you buy any other cell phone besides an iPhone then the carrier is responsible for updates. Read here for an understanding.

https://www.howtogeek.com/163958/why-do-carriers-delay-updates-for-android-but-not-iphone/

 

[M.PaulCezanne]

Really, try an Android. The carriers always had 100% control of a cell phone until Apple said they were going to control he experience. If you buy any other cell phone besides an iPhone then the carrier is responsible for updates. Read here for an understanding.

https://www.howtogeek.com/163958/why-do-carriers-delay-updates-for-android-but-not-iphone/

Thanks and I get it with respect to Android. I just don’t understand why Apple hasn’t changed this apparently archaic policy.

At this point, I’m having have a hard time believing it’s nothing more than oversight which, given the security lapses in Mac OS development and near total focus on in-app purchase and ad-serving in iOS development, has gotten pretty bad over the last couple of years.

 

[jav6454]

Agreed. I see the need for reasonable restrictions but I see no reason to treat OS update data over a cell network differently from that over a wired network. It’s very frustrating as it’s literally the only reason for many of us to even consider handing money to Comcast (and their filthy bretheren).

I am not one to complain, but my Fiber connection is best to any one of those bloodsucking parasites @ Comcrap.

 

[M.PaulCezanne]

I am not one to complain, but my Fiber connection is best to any one of those bloodsucking parasites @ Comcrap.

Yeah I wish. I might spring for that. But then I’d pressure myself to get a new MacBook Pro and a new OLED tv! But as it is, I sold my 2016 LG because it wasn’t fully compatible with the new Apple TV. And the newer MacBook Pros are, for many reasons, just not worth the price.

I’ve honestly been able to feel the calm peace of ditching tech (routers, modems, all but my iPhone 6). Who needs animated poop emojis for $1200? The only roadblock for me now is this ridiculous update policy that on its face seems to INCREASE the risk of a security breach because it decreases our ability to update. Either we endure that or pay for a second, wired ISP. Seems very unreasonable - unless you’re a wired ISP.

 

[Shirasaki]

When Apple gives options, people complain. When Apple takes away options, people complain.
Since Apple will always lose, they choose one option and force everyone on the same page. Sure, anger a group of customers, but not that big of a deal after all. Also, I don’t recall any other countries in the world provides unlimited cellular data plan, which is another potential concern when Apple makes the decision.

 

[GreyOS]

Probably at least some of the older logic of perhaps not over saturating mobile networks if a lot of people try to update more or less at the same time (or basically in a short period of time).

Spare a thought for the wired ISPs next time an OS update is put out then

Few thoughts
- devices aren't all notified of software updates at the same time; pretty sure it's intentionally spread out over a few days, which limits the load. Not everyone updates immediately, even if the notification arrives immediately.
- Apps are put out at precise moment, up to 100mb can be downloaded over cellular, and automatic app updates mean many will update within a narrow window. Thinking about very popular apps like WhatsApp. Are cellular companies concerned about that? I really doubt it.
- I'd accept some size limit for OS updates - why not match the one for apps, for example?

 

[M.PaulCezanne]

When Apple gives options, people complain. When Apple takes away options, people complain.
Since Apple will always lose, they choose one option and force everyone on the same page. Sure, anger a group of customers, but not that big of a deal after all. Also, I don’t recall any other countries in the world provides unlimited cellular data plan, which is another potential concern when Apple makes the decision.

But why would this not be a positive change for everyone? What’s the downside? How is it any different from the app download protocols?

 

[jav6454]

Yeah I wish. I might spring for that. But then I’d pressure myself to get a new MacBook Pro and a new OLED tv! But as it is, I sold my 2016 LG because it wasn’t fully compatible with the new Apple TV. And the newer MacBook Pros are, for many reasons, just not worth the price.

I’ve honestly been able to feel the calm peace of ditching tech (routers, modems, all but my iPhone 6). Who needs animated poop emojis for $1200? The only roadblock for me now is this ridiculous update policy that on its face seems to INCREASE the risk of a security breach because it decreases our ability to update. Either we endure that or pay for a second, wired ISP. Seems very unreasonable - unless you’re a wired ISP.

You wouldn't sprng in for Google Fiber? That's what I meant

 

[C DM]

Spare a thought for the wired ISPs next time an OS update is put out then

Few thoughts
- iPhones aren't all notified of software updates at the same time; pretty sure it's intentionally spread out over a few days, which limits the load. Not everyone updates immediately, even if the notification arrives immediately.
- Apps are put out at the same time, up to 100mb can be downloaded over cellular, and automatic app updates mean many will update within a narrow time window. Thinking about very popular apps like WhatsApp. Are cellular companies concerned about that? I really doubt it.
- I'd accept some size limit for OS updates - why not match the one for apps, for example?

The difference between apps and OS updates is that with apps you won't get the same type of influx of people trying to get them as you could with an iOS update. Again, that said, the likely older logic behind this might not really apply that much these days, short of just "on paper" basically.

 

[Shirasaki]

But why would this not be a positive change for everyone? What’s the downside? How is it any different from the app download protocols?

Allowing cellular data iOS update could benefit some people. But likely only some, not many. Downside? Network congestion is still a thing nowadays. Downloading large file through cellular will slow down other users for quite a while.

 

[GreyOS]

The difference between apps and OS updates is that with apps you won't get the same type of influx of people trying to get them as you could with an iOS update. Again, that said, the likely older logic behind this might not really apply that much these days, short of just "on paper" basically.

I kind of address your points in my post though - if you disagree and want to explain why, that's fine, but your post is quite abstract and doesn't refer to anything in mine, so it reads like you've not read what i've written.

 

[M.PaulCezanne]

Allowing cellular data iOS update could benefit some people. But likely only some, not many. Downside? Network congestion is still a thing nowadays. Downloading large file through cellular will slow down other users for quite a while.

Again - cell carriers are pushing unlimited video streaming. Is this not a strain on the network?

If they’re just preferring Netflix to security updates, we all should be very concerned (even more than we already are after the 2017 US legal and regulatory developments) about the future of the internet.

 

[fischersd]

Again - cell carriers are pushing unlimited video streaming. Is this not a strain on the network?

If they’re just preferring Netflix to security updates, we all should be very concerned (even more than we already are after the 2017 US legal and regulatory developments) about the future of the internet.

Well, we've seen from the past that the carriers aren't necessarily the best at managing their traffic....if QoS was working as it should, then you wouldn't be seeing some people unable to make a voice call when at a football came, while the person beside them has the game streaming on their tablet (same carrier).

You've also got the added load of the app updates after the OS update (after I updated to iOS 11.2.5 beta 4, four of my apps needed updates). Developers do updates for iOS specific versions, which are made available when those versions are reached.

Everyone that wants this should start lobbying their carriers....they need to approve it before Apple can implement it. (then Apple could enable/disable it with the carrier settings).