Updating rMBP15 Late 2013 to High Sierra

[jetranger407]

Hi All, first time poster looking for advice. I have a rMBP 15 (A1398/Late 2013) that has run the same OS since it shipped (Mavericks) and absolutely love it for it's reliability. I'm a graphic designer, and have decided it's time to update my tools (Adobe Creative Suite), while I continue my indefinite wait for the newest iteration of MBP16...

I want to update to something that won't burden my rMBP's hardware too hard, while keeping it responsive and dynamic while I use newer tools of my trade in parallel (Illustrator, Photoshop, Lightroom, Music going and plenty of web browser tabs open).

Should I have any trouble updating to High Sierra (~4 years between release and my computers build) or should I just go with Sierra (3 years)? If anyone has any first hand insight or perspective on this, I'd really appreciate it. Looking forward to anyone in the community's thoughts!

Edit: rMBP Specs are: (A1398) 2.3ghz Intel Core I7 / 16GB 1600 MHZ DDR3 / Intel Iris Pro 1536MB / NVIDIA GEFORCE G750M

 

[theapplehead]

Hi All, first time poster looking for advice. I have a rMBP 15 (A1398/Late 2013) that has run the same OS since it shipped (Mavericks) and absolutely love it for it's reliability. I'm a graphic designer, and have decided it's time to update my tools (Adobe Creative Suite), while I continue my indefinite wait for the newest iteration of MBP16...

I want to update to something that won't burden my rMBP's hardware too hard, while keeping it responsive and dynamic while I use newer tools of my trade in parallel (Illustrator, Photoshop, Lightroom, Music going and plenty of web browser tabs open).

Should I have any trouble updating to High Sierra (~4 years between release and my computers build) or should I just go with Sierra (3 years)? If anyone has any first hand insight or perspective on this, I'd really appreciate it. Looking forward to anyone in the community's thoughts!

Edit: rMBP Specs are: (A1398) 2.3ghz Intel Core I7 / 16GB 1600 MHZ DDR3 / Intel Iris Pro 1536MB / NVIDIA GEFORCE G750M

Hi jetranger! Welcome to the forum! Your machine would definitely be capable of running High Sierra based on the specs you provided. That said, I would recommend updating to Mojave as it proved even more stable compared to High Sierra while adding many useful features. Let us know if you have any further questions or need any help updating!

 

[mdgm]

A reason for Mojave is that it is the oldest release to get new Adobe software builds (but probably only till Monterey is released).

You can get old versions of OS X here (note App Store links must be opened from Safari on a Mac): https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT211683

The latest security updates for Mojave/Catalina and updates for Big Sur include a Boot ROM update with an updated NVMe driver that would be useful to avoid hibernation issues should you wish to use a 3rd party SSD at some point in the future.

Most NVMe drives require running at least High Sierra, I think.

I’m currently running High Sierra on a mid-2014 (I have still managed to update to the latest Boot ROM installing Big Sur on an external drive) and will probably move to Mojave soon.

Mojave is the last version of OS X to support 32-bit apps.

 

[mikehalloran]

Mojave. Some 32 bit apps will no longer work but not many. Some bugs were fixed that had been lingering since broken in 10.5 Leopard.

Unlike High Sierra, it’s still a supported MacOS till November when Monterey is released. Apple supports OS for 3 years. This means you are entitled to phone support — and it’s free.

 

[jetranger407]

Interesting! Thanks everyone for their input. For clarity, this particular 2013 MBP15 shipped w/ SSD, I understand that previous examples shipped w/ a regular HDD.

In any event, I wasn't anticipating for anyone to suggest to go further still w/ OS versions. I'd heard of a handful of 2013 MBP users who made the upgrade to High Sierra and had some fluidity problems w/ the animations in the dock bar and freezing up.

I was SO concerned w/ overwhelming the hardware w/ H.S. , that I went so far as to replacing the heatsink's factory thermal paste w/ Kryonaut in case the processing demands were excessive.

So I should be at ease with the idea of installing Mojave on my Macbook, in combination with the use of demanding graphic apps described above? Just want to be triple sure, as I know there really isn't a going back once I've gone ahead and done it.

Thanks again everyone @mikehalloran @mdgm @theapplehead for taking the time to respond!

 

[jms-uk]

I have that same machine, running Mojave, use it with Adobe graphic/photo apps (and Affinity), as well as Vectorworks Architect and works fine.

Fans would sometimes kick in if too many things are open (3-4 different browsers with 20-40 tabs in each, VS Code, Photoshop and Teams for example) at the same time all while connected to the external monitor - but not freezing.

 

[jg321]

13" here but late 2013 like yours. I've moved back and forth over the past few months, even as far as Big Sur, and anything past Mojave just seems laggy. To prove this, I internet recovered back to Mavericks, and upgraded one release at a time through to Big Sur. Mojave seems to be the sweet spot on this machine at the minute.

Might consider Catalina in November, when Mojave stops being supported. Big Sur is of course the last one this guy will officially run, but even a clean install felt laggy on this. Nothing quantifiable of course, but it just felt slow, and laboured as you put it.

 

[calliex]

I have a 2012r 15 MBP. I run sierra because a couple apps I use will not run in high sierra. They are old versions and I can not afford to upgrade to version that would run on high sierra. Waiting for the M1x mbp sometime later this year.

 

[mdgm]

Interesting! Thanks everyone for their input. For clarity, this particular 2013 MBP15 shipped w/ SSD, I understand that previous examples shipped w/ a regular HDD.

The reasons people go with NVMe SSDs is to get faster performance than the stock SSD and/or more space. For instance 256GB may have been enough for some back in late 2013/early 2014, but now they may need more space. Unlike with new MBP models, the SSD in the late 2013 is replaceable.

 

[mikehalloran]

The reasons people go with NVMe SSDs is to get faster performance than the stock SSD and/or more space. For instance 256GB may have been enough for some back in late 2013/early 2014, but now they may need more space. Unlike with new MBP models, the SSD in the late 2013 is replaceable.

Yes but there are things that owners of 2013-14 MBP owners need to know.

nteresting! Thanks everyone for their input. For clarity, this particular 2013 MBP15 shipped w/ SSD, I understand that previous examples shipped w/ a regular HDD.

That, by itself, doesn't mean much. High Sierra 10.13.6 and Mojave can be installed on HDDs and will format them APFS but not your issue.

All Retina 2013-2014s have AHCI SSDs speed rated around 700 but are even slower. Here's what you need to know should you want to replace it. There are fast (rated 2800–3200) NVMe 3 x4 SSDs and much less expensive ones rated 2000. The bus in yours is a PCI x2 with a max speed rating around 1600 so the extra speed of the faster ones is wasted on your machine. Save the money. Also, you don't need the Apple pin-out on the very expensive blades sold by OWC. A $16 short Sintech adapter will allow a Crucial P1 to fit and you will have saved a lot of money.

This applies to the Air and all other MacBooks built 2013–14 only. Replacing an AHCI blade with an NVMe 3 x4 will cause your machine to now wake up from Deep Sleep mode. The good news is that there are a number of Terminal Commands that prevent Deep Sleep but your battery life will not be quite as good. Normal Sleep is not affected.

Internet Recovery of the OS will no longer work. That's ok—make a USB Boot drive for Mojave. Use that to boot your MBP after install and use Migration Assistant to restore your System from a TimeMachine backup. Tons of threads detailing the problems that the cloning fanboys have by not following those simple instructions.

 

[jetranger407]

Ah ok. I'm just now finding out about what NVMe SSDs are... I was wondering why @mdgm was talking about upgrading SSDs when my laptop shipped w/ an SSD. Understood now. Prob won't do that between now and when the M1X Macbook becomes available.

Sounds like Mojave it is then! Thanks for everyone's input - stellar info and willingness to help from you guys. I really do appreciate it @mikehalloran @mdgm @calliex @jg321 @jms-uk @theapplehead

Now to decide whether a Clean Install is necessary or just upgrade ?

 

[mikehalloran]

…

Now to decide whether a Clean Install is necessary or just upgrade …

This is a stopgap until the M1 Mac you want becomes available, right?

A proper clean install can take days to get right and it's very possible that you have apps that still run over Mojave but their installers don't.

Do not do a clean install. Life is too short. Save that for the next Mac.

Since Mojave is still supported, you are eligible for free phone support. Every once in awhile, some old code is not probably sandbagged can cause unexplained crashes, inability to shut down and all sorts of weirdness. If that happens, navigate the Apple Support pages and have someone call you. He/she will log into your machine, run traces and tell you what to remove—which you will do and the problems will be fixed.

Last time that happened to me was a Mojave in 2020. The culprits were three ancient .kxt files designed to make the transition to OS 10.7 Lion possible for as many different apps 9 years earlier. Huh? Once we found them, and rebooted, I was good.

 

[pshufd]

Mojave as it's incredibly stable and apparently is still getting security updates. I am running Mojave on my 2014 and 2015 MacBook Pros and am very happy with them. I have run Sierra, High Sierra and Big Sur on the 2014 MacBook Pro in the past and Mojave is the best in my opinion.

 

[jetranger407]

@mikehalloran It is indeed a stopgap.. but I've filled my computer w/ so much junk in it's lifetime, that I can't help but feel like there might be some underlying quirks that have developed over the years in my systems behavior. Most notably a constant memory leak.. which may just be the result of the current generation of web browers and their bloated operation...

But I will defer to your advice and go the route of a basic upgrade. Better to be safe than sorry.

Praying that Apple gets it together and gets a touchbarless and magsafe equipped tractor of a MBP out the door by 2021's end. ?

 

[mdgm]

You could do a secondary install on a USB3 SSD if you have the time and if you are happy with that install then clone it to the internal SSD using SuperDuper (has some free functionality) or Carbon Copy Cloner (free trial). That way you get the best of both. An upgrade to work with for now and a clean install to experiment with as you have time and potentially move to being your main install.

 

[Madhatter32]

Having used High Sierra and Mojave, I would suggest going with Mojave because it is still supported with security updates. I think it to be better as well although I never had an issue with High Sierra.

 

[tivoboy]

All I can say is, I went to CATALINA and it's just been a complete SS and world of hurt from the beginning and has made the 2013 rMBP that I have had for a DECADE completely unusable. MAIL WAS GONE, FANS RUN CONSTANTLY, the machine lags ALL THE TIME, nothing makes it better. I think i'm going to have to downgrade to Mojave just to make it usable again. WHAT A POS from apple.