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JCADX

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 6, 2022
30
30
Hi!

I currently have a Macbook Pro 2018 (13.3, 4 thunderbolt ports, Intel i5 8256U, with 8gb ram and 256gb ssd). I´m close to finishing my phD in psychology, and i´m checking the laptop market to upgrade for the future work, as my current one have some issues (butterfly keyboard, battery a bit weak sometimes and lack of power for certain scenarios). I have many Apple devices (iPhone 13 Pro Max, iPad Air M1, Apple TV 4K, Airpods 2+Max...) so really invested with the ecosystem. I´ve used the iPad as a secondary monitor with Sidecar or even Universal Control as a backup to some articles (pdfs on iPad and word on MBP for example).

For me, the laptop is a secondary device i use when i need to work in the lab or when i travel, doing the heavier work in my home PC (a Ryzen 5800X custom build, 16gb ram, 3060Ti, really powerful). I like my devices to last as long as possible (4-5 years minimum). My work involves usually these kind of tasks: data analysis (SPSS and Brainvision Analyzer for EEG signals, with the latter being really CPU intensive), designing experimental procedures (ePrime, PsychoPy), some programming, which i´m still learning (Python is usually the way to go in my field), reading a lot of pdf (scientific papers), opening a lot of firefox/safari tabs (to search those papers), and MS office for writing articles, designing presentations and organizing experimental data. I don´t usually game with my laptop, and rely a lot on cloud storage. Its rare that i have to do video editing, but sometimes i need to design 2D figures for the articles, using a really old program (Macromedia Fireworks CS3).

My main issue with upgrading is that some of the programs i use (Brainvision Analyzer, PSNet ePrime, Macromedia Fireworks) are only available on Windows and some even use USB security dongles, which is the reason i have a Bootcamp W11 partition on my MBP. This is something i cannot do with current Macbooks with M1/M2, so that could be a limitation (if i needed to use those programs i could only use my home PC). However, Windows alternatives with Intel 12º gen processors are scarce in my country (mainly the Samsung Galaxy Book 2 Pro, Dell XPS 13 and some Lenovo Thinkbooks) and when i search, some even present issues in the long run, which could affect durability and futureproofing.

Should i choose a Windows laptop for my use case, or stick with a M1/M2 Macbook despite some programs are absent on MacOS?

If i choose a Macbook, i think one of the most interesting alternatives for me is the 16gb ram / 256gb SSD M2 Macbook Air (1611€ with edu pricing). Equivalent M1 Air is 1331€ and equivalent M2 Pro is 1711€. The 14 inches M1 Pro MB Pro is also an option, but i think is a bit thick and heavy and that puts me off a bit. I´m open to suggestions.

On the Windows side, i checked the Samsung Galaxy Book 2 Pro (really thin, light and with Intel 12 gen processors, for around 1200€), the Dell XPS 13 (around 1300€), Lenovo Thinkbook 13s G4 (around 1400€), and upcoming HP Expertbook 830/840 G9 (no price, but should be around 1300-1400€).

Thanks for the help!
 

James_C

macrumors 68030
Sep 13, 2002
2,847
1,897
Bristol, UK
If you really need to run mission critical Windows Apps on your laptop then I would go for a Windows laptop.

The other option with a M1/M2 is to buy a copy of Parallels, and install Windows for Arm 11. Parallels now enables you to download Windows for Arm directly from the App. You can then either Buy a Windows Licence from the Microsoft App Store or use an existing Pro licence.

Windows for Arm does allow you to run most x86 (Intel) apps. Check that the app runs in Windows 11. You should be able to use your USB security Dongles.

I have been using Windows for Arm for over a year to run Sage 200. Microsoft have actually done a really good job with x86 emulation, and with the power of M2 you might be surprised how well some of your Windows apps will run.
 
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JCADX

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 6, 2022
30
30
If you really need to run mission critical Windows Apps on your laptop then I would go for a Windows laptop.

The other option with a M1/M2 is to buy a copy of Parallels, and install Windows for Arm 11. Parallels now enables you to download Windows for Arm directly from the App. You can then either Buy a Windows Licence from the Microsoft App Store or use an existing Pro licence.

Windows for Arm does allow you to run most x86 (Intel) apps. Check that the app runs in Windows 11. You should be able to use your USB security Dongles.

I have been using Windows for Arm for over a year to run Sage 200. Microsoft have actually done a really good job with x86 emulation, and with the power of M2 you might be surprised how well some of your Windows apps will run.
Forgot about Parallels and did not know that x86 emulation could be that advanced on W11 ARM. But i would need to check if these two particular programs would work (ePrime and Analyzer). They work on W10 and W11 on x86 processors at least. Those two programs can be like 5-10% of my workflow, so not critical, but is desirable that they can work somehow.

Would the M2 Air suffice for this (16gb ram and 256gb ssd), or an M1 Pro processor would be more desirable?
 

HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
7,290
3,342
Forgot about Parallels and did not know that x86 emulation could be that advanced on W11 ARM. But i would need to check if these two particular programs would work

e-prime installation seems to have failed on Win11 running on a studio Parallels after a very long wait to install


Screen Shot 2022-08-06 at 5.35.44 PM.png

Screen Shot 2022-08-06 at 5.33.07 PM.png
 

James_C

macrumors 68030
Sep 13, 2002
2,847
1,897
Bristol, UK
Would the M2 Air suffice for this (16gb ram and 256gb ssd), or an M1 Pro processor would be more desirable?

I upgraded my M1 MBA after a year to a 16” M1Pro MBP, did not notice much difference running Parallels to be honest. I would suggest that you consider more than a 256GB SSD. For two reasons, on the M2 Air Apple have only used one chip for the SSD, and as a result only transfers at 1/2 the speed of the two chips used for 512GB. In addition Parallels will install a virtual PC on the SSD taking up a reasonable amount of space. If budget is an issue I would look at a M1 Air with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD.
 

JCADX

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 6, 2022
30
30
e-prime installation seems to have failed on Win11 running on a studio Parallels after a very long wait to install


View attachment 2039894

View attachment 2039895
Yes...ePrime can be complicated to install even on a W10/11 machine, these errors are usual when installing them on students computers in our lab. It relies on a lot of random prerequisites, like that .NET 3.5 or the port driver (for the physical USB dongle). These are usually provided alongside the usb dongle in a separate pendrive (or you can download them separatedly). If you try to install all of that through the ePrime setup can usually fail. A wonderful program xD

Did you try Brainvision Analyzer? Installation is usually smooth (they provide the .exe on their website and also with a separate installation USB when buying the license), but is impossible to open without the usb dongle.

I upgraded my M1 MBA after a year to a 16” M1Pro MBP, did not notice much difference running Parallels to be honest. I would suggest that you consider more than a 256GB SSD. For two reasons, on the M2 Air Apple have only used one chip for the SSD, and as a result only transfers at 1/2 the speed of the two chips used for 512GB. In addition Parallels will install a virtual PC on the SSD taking up a reasonable amount of space. If budget is an issue I would look at a M1 Air with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD.
Budget is not really an issue (as long as i don´t spend more than i need, around 1500-2000 maximum), but for example a M2 Air with 512gb ssd / 16gb ram (or the M2 Pro) is really close in price to the 14 inch Macbook Pro (1841€ vs 2024€) and is a more powerful machine with a fan after all (despite the increased weight). 1611€ for the 16/256 M2 Air model was a sweet spot. Not too pricey, a slim and light computer with plenty of power available.

I did not have space issues with 256gb SSD on my 2018 MBP, and that is considering i have the disk divided evenly between W11 (bootcamp) and MacOS. I rely a lot on the cloud storage and as my laptop is a secondary device i don´t fill up a lot of space. The slower SSD is an issue, but comparable Windows laptops i think they had an even slower one.
 

James_C

macrumors 68030
Sep 13, 2002
2,847
1,897
Bristol, UK
@JCADX , Yep I agree that the slower 256GB SSD is still faster than most windows laptops. Most reviews say that it is not a huge issue unless you are moving large files. As you are going for 16GB, the impact on memory swap is less of an issue compared with the 8GB RAM model.
 
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JCADX

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 6, 2022
30
30
@JCADX , Yep I agree that the slower 256GB SSD is still faster than most windows laptops. Most reviews say that it is not a huge issue unless you are moving large files. As you are going for 16GB, the impact on memory swap is less of an issue compared with the 8GB RAM model.
Yes, i dont usually move large files (although sometimes might do, as EEG datasets can be like 700-800mb or even 1gb, depending on the sample size). One of the main issues when checking Windows laptop alternatives is that is really difficult to find the SSD speed numbers or SSD model. For instance, i don´t know the write/read of the Galaxy Book2 Pro and i´m unable to find it online. With ram i´m 100% sure to go 16gb because my workflow can be demanding on that sometimes and my MBP 2018 can see memory swap all the time with its 8gb ram.
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
29,243
13,318
Do you have the benefit of an Apple education discount?
Then ... get a MacBook Pro 14".
Even the base model is well-equipped (16gb RAM, 512gb SSD).
$1799 or very close to it.
 
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JCADX

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 6, 2022
30
30
Do you have the benefit of an Apple education discount?
Then ... get a MacBook Pro 14".
Even the base model is well-equipped (16gb RAM, 512gb SSD).
$1799 or very close to it.

Yes, its 2024€ after education discount in my case for that model (tax included).

The only thing i´m a bit unconvinced about that model is that is heavier and thicker than my current MBP 2018.
 

gorbag42

macrumors member
Apr 26, 2011
39
29
NY State
Hi!

I´m close to finishing my phD in psychology,

#1: Congrats! I'm sure it's been a long hard road.

#2: How do you anticipate your vocation playing out? Private practice / clinical? Research? Academia vs. Corporate? All of these things would play into what would make the most sense for you.

For me, as a corporate Cognitive Scientist (recently retired), I used to have at least two machines, one for lab work (typically running Linux) and one for pretty much everything else (writing reports, background research, etc.) Both were Macs just running different OS's most of the time, with corporate IT putting some order of restrictions on what could be bought or loaded on the machines (I had more or less free reign on the lab machine(s) with restrictions on external network connections).
 
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JCADX

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 6, 2022
30
30
#1: Congrats! I'm sure it's been a long hard road.

#2: How do you anticipate your vocation playing out? Private practice / clinical? Research? Academia vs. Corporate? All of these things would play into what would make the most sense for you.

For me, as a corporate Cognitive Scientist (recently retired), I used to have at least two machines, one for lab work (typically running Linux) and one for pretty much everything else (writing reports, background research, etc.) Both were Macs just running different OS's most of the time, with corporate IT putting some order of restrictions on what could be bought or loaded on the machines (I had more or less free reign on the lab machine(s) with restrictions on external network connections).
Thanks! :) It´s been indeed a long road, but was worth it until now.

At this point i don´t know how or where will i continue, but my priority is to continue in the academic field (university, which is a position that combines research+professor in Spain), but its a long road to earn enought merits to apply to a position. I could also work in private clinical practice as i have the formation for that. I´m open to anything in the research field, to be honest, either public or private. My priority is learning more about programming in Python and fMRI research, which are two points i´m still lacking a bit, as i´m more specialized in behavioral and EEG studies.

The computers i use for my work are all personal (my home PC, with Ryzen 5800X, 16gb ram and dedicated GPU, 3060Ti, and then my MBP 2018), because our lab has shared pcs (HP pre-built machines, they use intel i5 9º gen i think) and really old windows laptops (some are still using XP, but we bought some new Dells recently with intel 10 gen) that are not useful for my workflow (we mainly use them to execute experimental procedures). In any case, if i leave this place, its uncertain which resources would they have, so i want to have everything covered in my side just in case. I was doing a collab with a foreign lab some time ago, and the MBP 2018 was better than their laptops, for example.
 

James_C

macrumors 68030
Sep 13, 2002
2,847
1,897
Bristol, UK
Yes, its 2024€ after education discount in my case for that model (tax included).

The only thing i´m a bit unconvinced about that model is that is heavier and thicker than my current MBP 2018.
It's funny how everyone wants the thinnest and lightest portable. When I started work I had to lug round one of these, which was state of the art at the time ...

compaq-portable_iii.jpg


Its all relative I guess :)
 

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HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
7,290
3,342
Did you try Brainvision Analyzer? Installation is usually smooth (they provide the .exe on their website and also with a separate installation USB when buying the license), but is impossible to open without the usb dongle.

No I didn't.
 

JCADX

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 6, 2022
30
30
No I didn't.
For reference, this is the program (the link can load slowly for some reason):


As it happens with ePrime, it has some pre-requisites like .NET Framework 4.0, directX 9c or the dongle drivers (plus a video codec for a really specific function i don´t use). The program can be installed by anyone but you can only open it with the usb-dongle plugged in (which costs a crazy amount of money, bought through the lab project budget in our case).

I don´t know if those prerequisites can be installed/emulated through ARM Windows in Parallels.
 

James_C

macrumors 68030
Sep 13, 2002
2,847
1,897
Bristol, UK
Parallels allows Windows for Arm to utilise the USB ports on your Mac, you may need a C to A adapter or cable if your Dongle is USB A.
 

gorbag42

macrumors member
Apr 26, 2011
39
29
NY State
OK, given you are primarily "academic", and per your original statement "For me, the laptop is a secondary device" I'd focus on what you need while traveling or in class rather than specific tools for running experiments, possibly on stationary machines you can get your lab to pay for. Over time you may find you mostly do reading and writing on your laptop and lab work on another machine, but there's always the possibility of.... two laptops :-0.
 
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JCADX

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 6, 2022
30
30
I ended up buying a LG Gram 14 laptop (the 2022 model with the i7-1260p) as i found a really good deal on it (989€ on LG website, being a 1600-1700€ laptop). It is light (<1kg), the programs are compatible, performance is decent enough and it was well priced for the potential use. I was doing some tests with Parallels in the M2 Air of a colleage and we were absolutely unable to make Analyzer work (ePrime did though), which was a critical problem.
OK, given you are primarily "academic", and per your original statement "For me, the laptop is a secondary device" I'd focus on what you need while traveling or in class rather than specific tools for running experiments, possibly on stationary machines you can get your lab to pay for. Over time you may find you mostly do reading and writing on your laptop and lab work on another machine, but there's always the possibility of.... two laptops :-0.
Sadly, lab budget is a bit constrained as it is a public institution. We were barely able to upgrade the stationary machines to HP Prodesk with an Intel 8º gen (back when 10 gen was already out) and this was done in two waves. Our laptops are in a similar situation, really old machines upgraded slowly (we bought Dell Latitudes recently and still have XP-era laptops running there). Any computer in my house is more powerful than what they can provide, and almost everyone working there end up using their own laptops.
 
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