upgrading a 17,1 late 2015 imac

[scott911]

Hi, my first mac is / was a late 2015 17,1 base model. 8 gb with 5400rpm drive.

I know this group will likely say its way past time for a complete replacement, but I do think I want to explore internal upgrade options - especially because the screen remains so beautiful - it's just a shame to dump it. also was on furlough for 11 months so...

The machine is really only used for family photos with mac's baked in photos tool. Maybe I would use it for more if every action didn't literally have half a minute though.

I'm thinking harddrive replacement.

easiest : add and make an external thunderbolt SSD drive the primary drive.
moderate: remove screen and put in a 3.5" internal SSD.
hard: put in a blade SSD.

Back in the day, the blade approach, although a lot harder and more expensive, was my planned upgrade. However, with a machine as old as this, I wonder if it's worth the expense and if the speed difference would really be worthwhile in a real world setting.

Between the full size SSD drives option (as a external thunderbolt vs an internal ssd) I do not know if one is meaningfully faster than the the other. If there's little difference, I might be inclined to go with the external so I have that for when the machine does get retired.

Thank you for your advice friends.

 

[Fishrrman]

First off, don't bother with thunderbolt.

Instead, get a USB3 drive -- that's all you need, as fast or faster than thunderbolt.

Either buy one that's put-together and ready-to-use, or build your own.
A Samsung t7 might be a good choice in an off-the-shelf drive.

You can use a 2.5" SATA SSD and an enclosure
or
You could get an "nvme" blade SSD and put it into a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure.
(This is backward-compatible with USB3).

You didn't tell us WHAT CAPACITY the current 5400rpm drive is.
If it's 1tb, get a 1tb SSD.
Then use either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper to "clone over" the contents of the internal drive to the SSD.
BOTH of these are FREE to download and use for 30 days - this costs you nothing.

Do this, and I predict you'll be VERY happy with the performance increase.

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

First off, don't bother with thunderbolt.

Instead, get a USB3 drive -- that's all you need, as fast or faster than thunderbolt.

Either buy one that's put-together and ready-to-use, or build your own.
A Samsung t7 might be a good choice in an off-the-shelf drive.

You can use a 2.5" SATA SSD and an enclosure

Totally agree with Fishrman.
But Samsung T7 is more expensive than T5, as it use NVME blade inside.
It would be just a waste of money, if you still use it through USB 3.0 port.
Better buy the T5.

 

[scott911]

Thank you both - I ended up getting a faster drive yesterday as found it for something like half price during the amazon inspired sales. I figure I'll be using it with other computers at some point in future so probably money reasonably well spend anyway.

Getting ready to clone drive now - in fact, I just checked in to look up the name of the recommended cloning software

 

[mdgm]

Some of us here are using much older Macs. I'm currently using a 2011 iMac and seriously considering attempting to put a SSD inside. As the 2011 iMac doesn't have USB3, I have booted one of my four off a TB3 NVMe SSD at the moment and that mostly works well (when using Bootcamp I'm having trouble reliably getting it to reboot with the external boot disk)

If you do decide to replace the internal storage try to install the latest security update for Mojave (or later) first if you haven't already to get the Boot ROM onto the latest version.

 

[scott911]

Some of us here are using much older Macs. I'm currently using a 2011 iMac and seriously considering attempting to put a SSD inside. As the 2011 iMac doesn't have USB3, I have booted one of my four off a TB3 NVMe SSD at the moment and that mostly works well (when using Bootcamp I'm having trouble reliably getting it to reboot with the external boot disk)

If you do decide to replace the internal storage try to install the latest security update for Mojave (or later) first if you haven't already to get the Boot ROM onto the latest version.

i went with external drive. Easier in not having to crack the case, but mainly I was figuring for close performance (with usb3 for my 2015) i'd have a nice external drive to more simply repurpose when the machine does get tossed.

 

[scott911]

First off, don't bother with thunderbolt.

Instead, get a USB3 drive -- that's all you need, as fast or faster than thunderbolt.

Either buy one that's put-together and ready-to-use, or build your own.
A Samsung t7 might be a good choice in an off-the-shelf drive.

You can use a 2.5" SATA SSD and an enclosure
or
You could get an "nvme" blade SSD and put it into a USB3.1 gen2 enclosure.
(This is backward-compatible with USB3).

You didn't tell us WHAT CAPACITY the current 5400rpm drive is.
If it's 1tb, get a 1tb SSD.
Then use either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper to "clone over" the contents of the internal drive to the SSD.
BOTH of these are FREE to download and use for 30 days - this costs you nothing.

Do this, and I predict you'll be VERY happy with the performance increase.

hi fisherman...
i used carboncopy cloner after formatting to AFDS. All files are reportedly copied, but the new external drive does not appear as option in the settings screen where I select the new startup disk.
I suspect that perhaps the settings in carbon copy did not copy over the iOS. When I look at settings, it shows as not bootable.
Do I need to actively install the iOS on the new disk before doing the copy?

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

hi fisherman...
i used carboncopy cloner after formatting to AFDS. All files are reportedly copied, but the new external drive does not appear as option in the settings screen where I select the new startup disk.
I suspect that perhaps the settings in carbon copy did not copy over the iOS. When I look at settings, it shows as not bootable.
Do I need to actively install the iOS on the new disk before doing the copy?

What version of macOS and what version of CCC? I have found CCC 6 is not friendly with making bootable copies of anything older than Big Sur. I actually downgraded to 5 for now. It defaults to bootable copies for me.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

First off, don't bother with thunderbolt.

Instead, get a USB3 drive -- that's all you need, as fast or faster than thunderbolt.

What are you basing this on? I agree that any external USB 3 SSD will be far faster than an internal spinner, but here is my testing of an internal spinner in a 2014 mini, along with an off the shelf SSD in an off the shelf USB 3 enclosure and Thunderbolt (Seagate GoFlex) enclosure.

https://imgur.com/a/iCr5Rr5

 

[macguru9999]

from someone who has done a lot of these, a 1 or 2 tb sata ssd mounted internally is the best option.
we have one of these and its great, but if there is board mounted ssd as well just ignore that. its not worth recreating the fusion drive and its small and if you replace it you may have sleep issues.
external is not as good because you just have usb3/tb2 whereas the 2017 onwards has tb3 giving usb3.1 twice as fast as the usba ports. so if you can do the swap safely take out the hd and fit a sata ssd.

 

[scott911]

What version of macOS and what version of CCC? I have found CCC 6 is not friendly with making bootable copies of anything older than Big Sur. I actually downgraded to 5 for now. It defaults to bootable copies for me.

ccc6 (latest) and big sir (latest). but maybe I should try the other duping software?

edit - oh - i see about downgrading to ccc 5.. i will look into that. thank you.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

ccc6 (latest) and big sir (latest). but maybe I should try the other duping software?

edit - oh - i see about downgrading to ccc 5.. i will look into that. thank you.

I didn't realize the lockdown was an Apple thing. Have a look at this doc, it should help resolve the issue:

Creating legacy bootable copies of macOS (Big Sur and later) | Bombich Software

bombich.com

 

[Amethyst1]

Instead, get a USB3 drive -- that's all you need, as fast or faster than thunderbolt.

Wrong. USB 3.0 maxes out at 5 Gbit/s, Thunderbolt 2 maxes out at 20 Gbit/s. And you get TRIM command support via Thunderbolt.

 

[Realityck]

Hi, my first mac is / was a late 2015 17,1 base model. 8 gb with 5400rpm drive.

I know this group will likely say its way past time for a complete replacement, but I do think I want to explore internal upgrade options - especially because the screen remains so beautiful - it's just a shame to dump it. also was on furlough for 11 months so...

The machine is really only used for family photos with mac's baked in photos tool. Maybe I would use it for more if every action didn't literally have half a minute though.

I'm thinking harddrive replacement.

easiest : add and make an external thunderbolt SSD drive the primary drive.
moderate: remove screen and put in a 3.5" internal SSD.
hard: put in a blade SSD.

Back in the day, the blade approach, although a lot harder and more expensive, was my planned upgrade. However, with a machine as old as this, I wonder if it's worth the expense and if the speed difference would really be worthwhile in a real world setting.

Between the full size SSD drives option (as a external thunderbolt vs an internal ssd) I do not know if one is meaningfully faster than the the other. If there's little difference, I might be inclined to go with the external so I have that for when the machine does get retired.

Thank you for your advice friends.

I just get a reasonable priced 5K display with a M1 Mac mini. It will make scrolling through photos extremely quick. The late 2015 i7 with a HDD bumper up is still stuck with a SATA III interface which is about the same speed you would be getting with an external USB 3 (5Gb/s) interface using a external Samsung T5 SSD drive. I think a few years ago taking a 27" iMac apart held more value. Now these M1 computers make it look like a slug. Yeah I still have one I am disposing of.

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

Wrong. USB 3.0 maxes out at 5 Gbit/s, Thunderbolt 2 maxes out at 20 Gbit/s. And you get TRIM command support via Thunderbolt.

Fisshrrman was refering to the maximum random read/write speed of the device, in comparing with user experience (relative personal feeling) about the smoothness of use.

In that relative aspect, using an USB 3.0 box (max 5Gbps) holding a SATA III (max 6Gbps) SSD (max consequence read/write speed 550MB/s) will not make you feel a lot slower than using a thunderbolt 2 box (20Gbps) holding an popular SATA III SSD (still bottlenecked at 550MB/s or lower)

Thereotically, an USB 3.2 box with nVME blade (consequense read/writing speed at around 1GB/s) can benchmark better than a thunderbolt 2 box holding a SATA SSD.

Random read/writing speed of SSD is normally lower than consequence read/writing speed, and thus, leverage more the difference between communicating protocol (USB vs TB)

If you want to exloit the stellar read/writing speed of nVME gen 4 (3GB/s), you will need a thunderbolt box that can communicate with the nVME blade at that speed, which has not been put on sales, yet.

 

[scott911]

based on the warnings here: https://bombich.com/kb/ccc6/cloning-macos-system-volumes-apple-software-restore , I now hesitate to make an external drive my sole boot volume. I see where you can use multiple tools to get the drive copied and the boot installed, but also see various warnings about boot section not being updated over time, etc.

If apple's controlling the process now, is there a native apple function that can perform the full (with ios) clone? Is it something you can only get done at genius bar of something? Maybe a future os will provide this?

I'm considering returning the SSD I bought. Thanks for any additional feedback.

 

[Fishrrman]

CCC -can- create a bootable clone of Big Sur, IF you're using an Intel-based Mac (which you are).

I understand the process is a little tricky, AND you need the correct VERSION of CCC (the latest one will do).

I can't provide step-by-step instructions because I don't use Big Sur (even though I'm downloading and installing version 2 of the Monterey developer beta as I type this).

But I sense that -somewhere-, you missed a step.

Another way to get a bootable external:
a. erase the drive to APFS
b. install a completely fresh copy of Big Sur
c. use setup assistant to "migrate" your data from the internal to the external.

But I still think CCC can do this...

Alternate approach:
Download SuperDuper and try THAT (it's a free download).

Fishrrman's advice:
Keep trying...!

 

[scott911]

CCC -can- create a bootable clone of Big Sur, IF you're using an Intel-based Mac (which you are).

I understand the process is a little tricky, AND you need the correct VERSION of CCC (the latest one will do).

I can't provide step-by-step instructions because I don't use Big Sur (even though I'm downloading and installing version 2 of the Monterey developer beta as I type this).

But I sense that -somewhere-, you missed a step.

Another way to get a bootable external:
a. erase the drive to APFS
b. install a completely fresh copy of Big Sur
c. use setup assistant to "migrate" your data from the internal to the external.

But I still think CCC can do this...

Alternate approach:
Download SuperDuper and try THAT (it's a free download).

Fishrrman's advice:
Keep trying...!

thanks you SIR.
Step b. is to install fresh copy of big sur to the external drive using the mac tools.
and step c: is using CCC, right?

again - really appreciate the help. in my younger days I all over this stuff, making eight channel DVRs, etc. But I'm getting old. You need some Tandy advice?, I'm your guy!

 

[Amethyst1]

Fisshrrman was refering to the maximum random read/write speed of the device, in comparing with user experience (relative personal feeling) about the smoothness of use.

I didn't see him referring to random speeds or user experience. TB2 is significantly faster than USB 3.0. That was my point.

using a thunderbolt 2 box (20Gbps) holding an popular SATA III SSD (still bottlenecked at 550MB/s or lower)

There's absolutely no point in putting a SATA SSD in a Thunderbolt enclosure (unless your only alternatives are FireWire or USB 2.0).

 

[rin67630]

Hi, my first mac is / was a late 2015 17,1 base model. 8 gb with 5400rpm drive.

I know this group will likely say its way past time for a complete replacement, but I do think I want to explore internal upgrade options - especially because the screen remains so beautiful - it's just a shame to dump it. also was on furlough for 11 months so...

The machine is really only used for family photos with mac's baked in photos tool. Maybe I would use it for more if every action didn't literally have half a minute though.

I'm thinking harddrive replacement.

easiest : add and make an external thunderbolt SSD drive the primary drive.
moderate: remove screen and put in a 3.5" internal SSD.
hard: put in a blade SSD.

Back in the day, the blade approach, although a lot harder and more expensive, was my planned upgrade. However, with a machine as old as this, I wonder if it's worth the expense and if the speed difference would really be worthwhile in a real world setting.

Between the full size SSD drives option (as a external thunderbolt vs an internal ssd) I do not know if one is meaningfully faster than the the other. If there's little difference, I might be inclined to go with the external so I have that for when the machine does get retired.

Thank you for your advice friends.

Forget the blade. The base model has no slot for it.
A Thunderbolt Drive (e.g. La Cie Thunderbolt) works well. Slightly better than USB3.
USB3 drives work also well and are far less expensive.