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Upgrading Mac Pro CPU

V

villagemusicman

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Feb 15, 2010
27
0
UK
Hi,

After reading all the informative posts with regards upgrading the MP CPU, i've embarked on a search to find 2 x Intel Xeon Quad Core X5365. Understandably there's not much in the way of bargains, although there's a used pair going on eBay. Even better is a pair of Harpertown X5470's but am i correct in thinking MP 1,1 can't handle them? If so it's a shame as they are both going for under £500.

Anyway back to the point ;-)

Is it right the highest CPU upgrade i can opt for is the X5365?

Thanks,

VMM
 
Thanks for the clarification, am i able to use any other versions like: E5345, L5320, E5405 etc. or should i stick to X5365?

BTW is there a list of compatible CPUs for the MP 1,1?

Thanks again,

VMM
 
villagemusicman said:
Thanks for the clarification, am i able to use any other versions like: E5345, L5320, E5405 etc. or should i stick to X5365?

BTW is there a list of compatible CPUs for the MP 1,1?

Thanks again,

VMM
Click to expand...

You can use any 5100 or 5300 series. Not 5200 or 5400. You can get a list of these from Intel's price list (google the phrase) or on Wikipedia (though that is a little cluttered). If you search for 5365 and 5355 on this sub-forum you should get an idea of what prices you can find them for with a few weeks daily eBay searching.
 
AFAIK, there's no definitive list. So watch the VID values for the parts. Those used by Apple have VID's of 1.000 - 1.500V DC (65nm).

45nm parts run on lower voltages (54xx parts), and the firmware may not be able to go that low (it would take a microcode adjustment to use them, which wasn't or ever is, to arrive).

Parts that end in 0 (i.e. 53x0) use a 1066MHz FSB. Those that use a 1333MHz FSB end in a 5 (i.e. 5365). As it happens, the chipset is capable of 1333MHz FSB, so I'd stick with those that end in a 5, which seem to all use the same VID spec of 1.000 - 1.500 V DC. ;)

Hope this helps. :)
 
Processor selection can be any 5100 or 5300 processor that has a 0x06Fx or 0x0F6x CPUID signature. Be advised that microcode will only be updated for:

MP1,1 0x6F0 0x6F1 0x6F4 0x6F5 0x6F6
MP2,1 0x6F0 0x6F1 0x6F4 0x6F5 0x6F6 0x6F7

Note that the X5355 (0x06F7 and 0x06FB) and X5365 (0x06FB) are not on the MP1,1 list, and that they seem to run just fine without the microcode update.
 
nanofrog said:
AFAIK, there's no definitive list.
Click to expand...

Correct, but the guidelines I just listed are about as good as you're going to get.

nanofrog said:
So watch the VID values for the parts. Those used by Apple have VID's of 1.000 - 1.500V DC (65nm).

45nm parts run on lower voltages (54xx parts), and the firmware may not be able to go that low (it would take a microcode adjustment to use them, which wasn't or ever is, to arrive).
Click to expand...

Nano, that's not correct. There is nothing in the EFI or microcode that adjusts the voltage or freq. Both of these are set automatically by the SM reading pullup/pulldown pins on the processor and setting the voltage and freq before power is even supplied to the processor.

There seems to be more than one reason that the 54xx's won't run, but mostly because of a couple of un-documented MSR's that the code wants to access that don't seem to be supported on the 54xx's.
 
hyram said:
Nano, that's not correct. There is nothing in the EFI or microcode that adjusts the voltage or freq. Both of these are set automatically by the SM reading pullup/pulldown pins on the processor and setting the voltage and freq before power is even supplied to the processor.
Click to expand...
I've seen numerous boards going to a separate controller for VR's and clocks (not just OC capable enthusiast boards either), as it makes sense IMO for Intel's Tick-Tock cycle. One board (socket used) can be manufactured for 2yrs. Newer versions are likely to come out, but are based off of the earlier boards (systems eng.). It's easier to get a new CPU working (no hardwiring/circuits to deal with).

The code for those controllers are included in the firmware, rather than a separate binary. Users may not have access though, if it's not a board meant for OC capabilities.

Such code isn't the primary reason for microcode changes, but it can be part of it (i.e. more accustomed to it for things like changes in the steppings).
 
nanofrog said:
I've seen numerous boards going to a separate controller for VR's and clocks (not just OC capable enthusiast boards either)
Click to expand...

Yep, but even those boards us the pullup/pulldown for intialization.... the processor's got to run at something before the firmware has complete control and even gives a inkly of being able to adjust. MP's do the same, the VR chip has the capability of being adjusted, it's just that apple doesn't provide any easy hooks in the firmware to tweak.
 
hyram said:
Yep, but even those boards us the pullup/pulldown for intialization.... the processor's got to run at something before the firmware has complete control and even gives a inkly of being able to adjust. MP's do the same, the VR chip has the capability of being adjusted, it's just that apple doesn't provide any easy hooks in the firmware to tweak.
Click to expand...
I understand where you're coming from now (intitial power setting is set via circuit design not code during POST), but that voltage is safe for that purpose (CPU's not under anything close to full load, so if the voltage is a tad on the high side, there's not really a chance of roasting the poor thing :p).

I thought you meant older designs that didn't use programmable VR's, and were just fixed in the VR circuit. :eek:
 
Wow guyz,

y'all really know your stuff! If i wasn't confused before, i certainly am now ;-) So just to clarify, i can choose between the 51XX and 53XX . Plus they can start with with either E5 or L5 ?

I've put out the feelers for any of the X53XX but would also like to ask, what is the performance difference (If any) between the clovertown & Harpertown processor?

Thanks,

VMM

EDIT: Just found Intel Xeon X5365 3Ghz 8mb 1333FSB for £299 inc VAT So my question is:
Coming from a Dual Core 2.66, will i notice a considerable difference in performance given the majority of my work is Audio ? I use apps like Cubase, Live etc.
 
so even with the first verison of the mac pro you can switch out the processor it currently has with the x5365 with no problem whatsoever?

I was looking to upgrade mine to 8 cores, if I can do this and easily then that would be awesome. I have never changed a processor on a dual processor system (let alone a mac) is it as easy as removing the two former processors and putting in two x5365?

sorry for the noob question. I want to get around to learning how to do this.
 
Raidersmojo said:
so even with the first verison of the mac pro you can switch out the processor it currently has with the x5365 with no problem whatsoever?

I was looking to upgrade mine to 8 cores, if I can do this and easily then that would be awesome. I have never changed a processor on a dual processor system (let alone a mac) is it as easy as removing the two former processors and putting in two x5365?

sorry for the noob question. I want to get around to learning how to do this.
Click to expand...

Read this thread and this thread and you will know pretty much all you need to know.
 
villagemusicman said:
Wow guyz,

y'all really know your stuff! If i wasn't confused before, i certainly am now ;-) So just to clarify, i can choose between the 51XX and 53XX . Plus they can start with with either E5 or L5 ?

I've put out the feelers for any of the X53XX but would also like to ask, what is the performance difference (If any) between the clovertown & Harpertown processor?

Thanks,

VMM

EDIT: Just found Intel Xeon X5365 3Ghz 8mb 1333FSB for £299 inc VAT So my question is:
Coming from a Dual Core 2.66, will i notice a considerable difference in performance given the majority of my work is Audio ? I use apps like Cubase, Live etc.
Click to expand...

I am not familiar with those programs. What kind of stress does it put on your 4 cores currently? If it pegs all 4, chances are it can utilize 8 cores.
 
Hey Bozz,

At this point, Cubase is pushing the CPU quite hard but we're trying to ascertain if the issues i'm having are plug-in related (poorly coded) or slow CPU. Either way, i think by upgrading the CPUs, should see some increase in performance..........i hope ;-)

VMM


BTW if i do change the CPUs for the X5365, is it essential to both use thermal paste and only run the Mac 2 hours at a time till the new CPUs are run in?
 
villagemusicman said:
Coming from a Dual Core 2.66, will i notice a considerable difference in performance given the majority of my work is Audio ? I use apps like Cubase, Live etc.
Click to expand...
You will see a difference with programs that will use all cores. I upgraded my 2Ghz quad to a 2.33 octo (then sold it) and definatly seen a boost when using handbrake. Go for it!
 
Right guyz am about to bite the bullet and get 2 x X5365 but want to check the specs one more time.

So is the following ok for a Mac Pro 1,1 Dual Core 2.66

sSpec Number: SLAED
CPU Speed: 3Ghz
Bus Speed: 1333 MHz
Bus/Core Ratio: 9
L2 Cache Size: 8mb
L2 Cache Speed: 3 GHz
Package Type: LGA 771
Manuf Tech: 65 nm
Core Stepping: G0
CPUID String:06FBh
Thermal Design Power: 120 W
Thermal Spec: 63C
VID Voltage Range: 1.35V

If this is ok, the next thing is will i need to get Thermal paste and if so which one is best recommended ?

Thanks for taking the time to read ;-)

VMM
 
VMM: please do cinebench measurements and some other meaningful (to you) benchmarks before and after the upgrade. I'm debating the same change and would like to here your impressions. (At $650 each on eBay for new chips, it's not worth it to me yet.)
 
Please note: stepping doesn't matter. I got two E5345's from different series and they work together since about a year :)
 
What are the available CPU upgrades for a 2.8 Ghz 2008 MP? Obviously Nehelem is out because of the architecture changes, but are there other options?
 
NoManIsland said:
What are the available CPU upgrades for a 2.8 Ghz 2008 MP? Obviously Nehelem is out because of the architecture changes, but are there other options?
Click to expand...
E5472 = 3.0GHz
X5472 = 3.0GHz
X5482 = 3.2GHz
X5492 = 3.4GHz (untested AFAIK)

All of the above parts have a 1600MHz FSB, which is one of the major advantages the Harpertowns had over previous systems.

X parts use more power than their E cousins.
 
Sorry about the delay. Have been thinking hard before i went ahead. But just bought two new/boxed X5365 for £608 all in. I'll do some performance tests before i install the new chips, but which apps give the best overall performance indicator? I've got cinebench but the other day at a party, a mate wasn't too impressed with that app. Actually he wasn't too impressed about upgrading the CPUs. His advice was simply 'buy a new machine'. Which i would, if i had £3,500 just hanging around!

Anyways any Performance app suggestions other then cinebench?

Thanks,

VMM
 
Run cinebench if you can. Suggest you use handbrake and rip a movie. Then do the same movie again with the new processors. Clock both tests. Handbrake uses all cores so this will give you a good measurement. I did my quad 2ghz to a 2.33 octo and have good improvements all around. Also suggest you install smcfancontrol as your temps will climb with the upgrade.
 
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