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osuskates

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 14, 2010
23
8
I've tried to upgrade two iPad Mini 5th Generation tablets (an iPad mini 5 Wi-Fi 256GB and a iPad mini 5 Wi-Fi 64GB) to iPadOS 16 and both times the upgrade has "bricked" the devices and I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this same issue? Another detail, all of the update attempts were done via a lightning connection and not over the air (OTA).

On the iPad mini Wi-Fi 256GB, I tired to upgrade it from 15.6.1 to 16.1 and this failed and no amount of troubleshooting would restore the device. Luckily, I was able to take it to an Apple store's Genius Bar and after multiple attempts, the tech was able to get the device restored and I was able to load the backed up data back on to the device. However, an attempt to update from 16.1 to 16.2 has again bricked this device.

On the iPad mini Wi-Fi 64GB, I tired to upgrade it from 15.6.1 to 16.2 and this failed and no amount of troubleshooting would restore the device. It says error 4013, however, Apple's error messages in this case are pretty much junk.

Clearly, par for the course with Apple making junky software. Two different devices should not be failing to upgrade like this.
 
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MacFan23

macrumors 6502a
Feb 17, 2010
517
701
I know this thread is a bit dead, but just wanted to add I had the same problem. An iPad Air 3 and an iPad 9th generation (fresh from the box!!).

Both updates over lightning connected to an M1 Ultra Mac Studio. Apple won’t do anything about it without paying a service fee which is over the value of the iPad itself and even then they won’t guarantee a repair or replacement.

Very disappointing.
 
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sorgo †

Cancelled
Feb 16, 2016
2,870
7,046
Damn, this sounds like a shocking oversight on Apple's part. Surprised this is the first I'm hearing/reading about it, and I'm sorry people are experiencing this :(
 
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osuskates

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 14, 2010
23
8
I know this thread is a bit dead, but just wanted to add I had the same problem. An iPad Air 3 and an iPad 9th generation (fresh from the box!!).

Both updates over lightning connected to an M1 Ultra Mac Studio. Apple won’t do anything about it without paying a service fee which is over the value of the iPad itself and even then they won’t guarantee a repair or replacement.

Very disappointing.

Very interesting. So here is the latest on this saga for me that has been ongoing since 10-25-2022...

I made an appointment to visit a local Apple store on 12-16-2022 and honestly this didn't go well. The genius bar techs of course wanted to blame it on faulty hardware that was now out of warranty. I'll spare you all of the details, however, after a LOT of explaining and complaining to the techs and the store manager that this should have not happened to TWO different iPad Mini 5s with completely different laptops that they sync to, they agreed and replaced both iPads at their cost. Side note: They did not believe me when I told them that it wasn't the hardware, it was a bug in the update code for iPadOS 16.x that at a minimum affected iPad Minis Fifth generation (Release date: March 18, 2019).

They had one of the iPad Mini 5s in the store (64GB Wifi Only) so I left home with one and I had to go back at a later date to pick up the other one. When I get home, I loaded all of the backed up data back on to the iPad Mini 5 (which was running 15.6.1). I didn't want to risk bricking the device again because I needed to use it for a few things.

I picked up the other iPad (256GB Wifi Only) a week or so later. Yesterday I got time to attempt to load my data back on to it via a lightening cable connection (not OTA), but this failed several times and I got an error message that the iPad needed to be updated first before I could load the data back on to it. When I attempted to update it from 15.1 to 16.2 via the lightening cable, it bricked the iPad.

So, at this point I knew that it would brick the 64GB iPad Mini 5 as well when I tried to update it via the lightening cable. So I took a video of the attempt to update it from 15.6.1 to 16.2. Like clockwork, the device started the update and once the software was extracted it got stuck in a "boot up" loop. No amount of update, update and restore, etc. would fix the issue. So back to the Apple store today (1-16-2023).

I explained to the Genius Bar lead manager the long saga and how this was my third time to the Apple store for the same problem. At this point, Apple's incompetent software engineers and quality assurance folks had managed to brick 4 iPad Mini 5s, but we were only getting started. The manager said he could only replace the iPads, but he was curious what was going on, so he wanted to try updating another iPad Mini 5 using my laptop via a lightening cable. We did this and we bricked it. To make this sad story even worse, I was hoping to leave the store with at least one working iPad Mini 5 that was updated to the latest iPadOS, so the manager said he'd get another iPad Mini 5 and update it using one of the Genius Bar tech laptop and a lightening cable (so a brand new out of the box iPad Mini 5 and the store's own laptop) when he did this it bricked.

So, 6 bricked iPad Mini 5s later I was told that I (not any of the Apple store employees, managers, general managers, etc.) would need to waste more of my time to call the worthless AppleCare support line to report the problem and see if any of the incompetent Apple engineers could be bothered to look into this clear bug that both they and the QA folks missed.

How no one in Apple's quality assurance department didn't take an iPad Mini 5 (which is one of the models still supported on iPadOS 16.x) and plugged it in to see if an upgrade from 15.X to 16.X would go smoothly is beyond me. They only tested the OTA updates and considered everything good. So this bug has stayed in the full iPadOS 16.x version for several beta and productions versions for months now.

This issue happens whenever you update to ANY iPadOS 16.x version (ie. 15.6.1 to 16.X or 16.1.1 to 16.2) via a lightening cable. I've always updated via a lightening cable so I can lay down a fresh version of the OS instead of doing a patch job that may lead to problems in the future.

I'd like to see how widespread this issue is, so please include the following in your reply if you've also experienced this issue:

Did you update via a tethered connection/lightening cable?
iPad's common hardware name (eg. iPad Mini (5th generation) - Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad_Mini_(5th_generation)):
Model (eg. A2133 - Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad_Mini):
From iPadOS version:
To iPadOS version:

This may be the last straw for me. I've been a long time Apple user and ever since Steve Jobs handed over the leadership reins to the horrible Tim Cook, the company's attention to quality and detail has steadily gone down hill. I'm not going to pay ever increasing prices for hardware and software that isn't well tested and "just works." Part of the reason I've been willing to pay a premium for Apple's products in the past is I don't have to waste much (if any) of my time troubleshooting and fixing issues with my Apple devices.

If you don't get them replaced at their cost, you might consider filing a complaint/report with the FTC, "Report anything you think may be a fraud, scam, or bad business practice." https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/#/faq
 
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osuskates

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 14, 2010
23
8
Tried to make others aware on Apple's own support community, but got the following reply via e-mail:

"Thanks for participating in the Apple Support Community.

We’ve removed your post 'Upgrading to iPadOS 16.X via Lightening Cable Connection on iPad Mini 5 Bricks The Device' because it contained either feedback or a feature request that was not constructive."

Not sure how trying to make other aware of this issue is not constructive?
 
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FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,684
2,089
This is... I have no words. Why isn’t this completely widespread? I mean, the update is completely bricking the device over and over, and this isn’t all over the internet. Maybe 99.9% of people update via OTA? It doesn’t fail via OTA, is that correct?

Now, what if people don’t have an Apple Store nearby? Maybe because they’re in a country without one? They’d lose their device forever. This is abhorrent.

Hold on... the update bricked an iPad 9th Gen and an iPad Air 3, too?! Again, why isn’t this widespread?
 

osuskates

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 14, 2010
23
8
This is... I have no words. Why isn’t this completely widespread? I mean, the update is completely bricking the device over and over, and this isn’t all over the internet. Maybe 99.9% of people update via OTA? It doesn’t fail via OTA, is that correct?

Now, what if people don’t have an Apple Store nearby? Maybe because they’re in a country without one? They’d lose their device forever. This is abhorrent.

Hold on... the update bricked an iPad 9th Gen and an iPad Air 3, too?! Again, why isn’t this widespread?

Q. Why isn’t this completely widespread?
A. Could be. We need more datapoints, hence, the reason I updated my reply above to see if we can gather this data. I put what I think is the most relevant datapoints to gather in my reply above.

Q. Maybe 99.9% of people update via OTA?
A. Very strong possibility. I still haven't found a document directly from Apple's engineers what the differences between tethered connection/full iPad OS updates (that are about 5GB in size Ref: https://ipsw.me/iPad11,1) and OTA updates (that are smaller in size Ref: https://ipsw.me/otas/iPad11,1). Still no excuse for Apple's software devs and QA team to not test updating via a mechanism they still offer in their own software. Wish Apple's software engineers would do an AMA from time-to-time, so technical people can ask them "how does this work" questions.

Q. It doesn’t fail via OTA, is that correct?
A. Not sure, but I would assume that is correct, otherwise you'd probably have a huge outcry. Just haven't confirmed this myself. I can report back when I pick up my new iPads a week or two from now. Anyone care to comment?

Q. They’d lose their device forever.
A. Yep, Apple's Genius Bar reps basically told me that I'd need to pay for replacement iPads since they were out of warranty, but I told them it was their software engineers that bricked my devices due to poor/sloppy programming or unknown bugs that were not caught in their testing phase of the dev cycle as well as by the QA team. I wasn't paying over $600 to get two new iPads for someone else's mistakes. Two iPads having the same update issue convinced them I was right.
 
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osuskates

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 14, 2010
23
8
Shrugs, who knows. My Mini 5 (256GB/Cellular) updated fine on 16.2

The bug is in the full iPadOS 16.X update itself and/or how it interacts with other code present on the device's hardware.

Only once was an Apple Genius bar tech able to "resurrect"/update my original 256GB iPad Mini 5 after about 5+ attempts using the Apple Configurator - https://support.apple.com/apple-configurator (during my 10-28-2022 store visit). See original post above. I tried many more times on my own before taking it to the store.

Multiple attempts - by the Apple Genius Bar reps - to again "resurrect"/update my original 256GB iPad Mini 5 and 64GB iPad Mini 5 (during my 12/16/2022 visit to the Apple store) via the Finder and Apple Configurator programs failed. So maybe you got very lucky?
 

Paddle1

macrumors 603
May 1, 2013
5,160
3,633
If you end up on iPadOS 15 again you should try an OTA update to see if the same problem occurs. If Apple refuses to listen to your feedback you shouldn't bother wasting your time repeating the runaround.
 

Johnny365

macrumors 65816
Nov 30, 2015
1,029
611
Ah, I didn't realize you guys were talking about a wired connection to computer/iTunes to do the update that way. Yeah, mine worked fine OTA to the latest version.
 

osuskates

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 14, 2010
23
8
If you end up on iPadOS 15 again you should try an OTA update to see if the same problem occurs. If Apple refuses to listen to your feedback you shouldn't bother wasting your time repeating the runaround.

Yeah, agreed. And my experience typically has been Apple does not listen to my/others feedback. The company is just too big now.

I just can't believe no one has noticed this issue which may have been present since the 16.X beta release on Monday July 11, 2022 (https://www.macrumors.com/2022/07/11/apple-seeds-first-public-beta-ios-16/), and 4 other 16.X public beta releases (https://www.macrumors.com/2022/08/24/apple-seeds-ios-16-public-beta-5/) before the production release of 16.1 and at least 3 production versions (not sure about the 15.7 release). Over 6 months now. I personally know it has definitely been an issue since at least 16.1. All of my tethered/full iPadOS 15.X updates went fine without any issues.

Production releases (Reference: https://ipsw.me/iPad11,1):
iPadOS 16.1 (20B82) - 24th October 2022
iPadOS 16.1.1 (20B101) - 9th November 2022
iPadOS 16.2 (20C65) - 13th December 2022
 

Whyy

macrumors regular
Sep 20, 2022
102
108
I mentioned this on another thread but my iPad Air 3 has also boot looped the last two times I tried to update it using my Mac and using a lightning to USB-C cable. When I connected it to the Mac with a lightning to USB-A cable instead then I was able to update.
 

Whyy

macrumors regular
Sep 20, 2022
102
108
Also, I believe I saw something on my Mac that looked like an updater for an iPad mini. I’m not sure if maybe that was the problem? The Apple server sending the wrong type of downloader to my Mac to update my iPad?? An iPad mini updater instead of an iPad Air updater?

My thoughts are to try using the lightning to USB-A cable first when trying to update for any future updates. I also thought about finding and downloading the correct updater myself and then manually triggering the update myself to see if that works better

Should be able to use this site to download the proper updater just in case Apple’s servers are sending the wrong file to the computer: https://ipsw.me/
 

osuskates

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 14, 2010
23
8
I mentioned this on another thread but my iPad Air 3 has also boot looped the last two times I tried to update it using my Mac and using a lightning to USB-C cable. When I connected it to the Mac with a lightning to USB-A cable instead then I was able to update.

That's interesting. Not sure if the code in the iPadOS software updates recognizes being connected to either a USB-A or USB-C cable and selects different update code based on this. Regardless, I've already wasted too much of my own time troubleshooting this issue for Apple (including over an hour on the phone with Apple support just to submit a ticket to their software engineers to look into the issue...was transferred to 4 different people because they didn't know how to submit such a ticket), so I wasn't be experimenting anymore. I tried to get Apple to add Apple Care to my devices so if I run into a similar issue in the future with a faulty iPadOS update I wouldn't have them say "sorry its past the 90 day warranty period, you'll have to pay for new devices." and Joe from Apple Care flat out refused to add it at their cost. That was the last straw for me. If a company won't take care of their customers, then I won't buy your products anymore and would encourage others to follow suit.

On a side note, not sure if anyone has tried this software to recover from the Apple boot logo loop issue or other boot up problems, but I'd be curious to know if anyone has had success with it. https://www.tenorshare.net/products/reiboot.html. Apple should just buy the company and give it away free to their customers since they don't seem to want to push out quality software anymore.
 
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Whyy

macrumors regular
Sep 20, 2022
102
108
That's interesting. Not sure if the code in the iPadOS software updates recognizes being connected to either a USB-A or USB-C cable and selects different update code based on this.

So when it happened the first time i searched the internet and iirc someone mentioned something about using a USB-A cable to get it to work properly. So I tried that and it worked. And when it happened the 2nd time, I resorted to using a USB-A to lightening cable and once again it worked.

I’m not saying that a different updater gets downloaded based on which cable you use. I just think it’s a possibility that for some reason some Apple devices don’t respond well to being updated using a USB-C to lightening cord. Maybe something in the cord’s circuitry that triggers something that is defective in certain units.

IDK, just a thought.
 
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Whyy

macrumors regular
Sep 20, 2022
102
108
Curious, what are you basing this on?

I bought base level storage when purchasing my Mac Mini so I’m frequently deleting stuff to free up space. I like to also delete the files that are downloaded to update my Apple devices. It’s been a little bit now so I can’t remember exactly where on the Mac I found the files but I believe it was then that I noticed what appeared to be an erroneous downloader. One for an iPad mini instead of for my iPad Air 3.
 

Whyy

macrumors regular
Sep 20, 2022
102
108
I updated my iPad Air 3 to iPadOS 16.3 tonight. I did NOT attempt to use a USB-C to lightning cable this time. I connected the iPad to my Mac mini using a USB-A to lightning cable and I didn’t have any issues with it boot looping. I also checked to make sure the correct IPSW file was downloaded and what I saw matched the file from https://ipsw.me/
 

Patrice Brousseau

macrumors 6502
Dec 14, 2016
271
76
Montréal, Canada
That's interesting. Not sure if the code in the iPadOS software updates recognizes being connected to either a USB-A or USB-C cable and selects different update code based on this. Regardless, I've already wasted too much of my own time troubleshooting this issue for Apple (including over an hour on the phone with Apple support just to submit a ticket to their software engineers to look into the issue...was transferred to 4 different people because they didn't know how to submit such a ticket), so I wasn't be experimenting anymore. I tried to get Apple to add Apple Care to my devices so if I run into a similar issue in the future with a faulty iPadOS update I wouldn't have them say "sorry its past the 90 day warranty period, you'll have to pay for new devices." and Joe from Apple Care flat out refused to add it at their cost. That was the last straw for me. If a company won't take care of their customers, then I won't buy your products anymore and would encourage others to follow suit.

On a side note, not sure if anyone has tried this software to recover from the Apple boot logo loop issue or other boot up problems, but I'd be curious to know if anyone has had success with it. https://www.tenorshare.net/products/reiboot.html. Apple should just buy the company and give it away free to their customers since they don't seem to want to push out quality software anymore.
This software saved me from a bad update to iPadOS 16 from 15 a few months ago. I tried to update via a package but wasn’t sure it was the good one for my device. Worth a try.
 

floral

macrumors 65816
Jan 12, 2023
1,011
1,234
Earth
I upgraded to 16 on my mini 5 (64G/WiFi) and had no issue. If it makes a difference, I entered it via the public beta.
 
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