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infinitejest

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
May 1, 2016
745
1,968
I have a 2019 16 inch MacBook Pro and I plan on upgrading to an Apple Silicone MacBook Pro in the next 1-2 years.

But what got me thinking now was whether it would make more sense from a financial standpoint to upgrade now, since I get more for my 2019 MacBook when I sell it now than in one or two years.

Of course (hypothetical speaking) that would also mean that I will have to upgrade the new MacBook Pro sooner than I would have to upgrade a M2X or M3X MacBook Pro. Which means more expenses more soon.

So, is there any sweet spot in terms of resell value and still good enough performance for selling?
Or how long do you guys usually keep your MacBooks? Do you keep them as long as you're happy with its performance or do you also take a good resell value into account?
 

jlc1978

macrumors 603
Aug 14, 2009
5,880
4,871
So, is there any sweet spot in terms of resell value and still good enough performance for selling?
Or how long do you guys usually keep your MacBooks? Do you keep them as long as you're happy with its performance or do you also take a good resell value into account?

I upgrade every 3 years when AppleCare runs out, although now that you can extend AC+ pst 3 years I may consider a longer refresh. Even at 3 years the Mac's performance has never been an issue; I upgraded my 2018 becasue it had a butterfly keyboard and although I've had no issues I decided to get a new AS MBP.

Bottom line is:

1. Can you afford it?
2. If yes, how bad do you want it?

After 3 years my MBP was worth ~45% of it value at Apple, a number that I decided was worth doing. I could have gotten more reselling it on my own but decided not to go through the hassle.
 

infinitejest

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
May 1, 2016
745
1,968
I upgrade every 3 years when AppleCare runs out, although now that you can extend AC+ pst 3 years I may consider a longer refresh. Even at 3 years the Mac's performance has never been an issue; I upgraded my 2018 becasue it had a butterfly keyboard and although I've had no issues I decided to get a new AS MBP.

Bottom line is:

1. Can you afford it?
2. If yes, how bad do you want it?

After 3 years my MBP was worth ~45% of it value at Apple, a number that I decided was worth doing. I could have gotten more reselling it on my own but decided not to go through the hassle.

The thing is that I could afford it but I really don't need it right now. I'm still happy with the performance of my MacBook Pro, it still handles everything I do flawlessly. The one thing I'd really love to have though (apart from the the better display - but I don't really care that much about it) would be the quiet M1X chip. I mainly use my MacBook for music production and in bigger Logic projects, the fan in my Intel machine can get really loud which gets quite annoying after a while.
But yeah I guess that brings me to your second point - how bad I really want it. The quiet chip obviously doesn't justify spending so much money for a new MacBook. However, I'm just a little concerned that the price of Intel MacBooks will drop drastically in the next few months/years and that right now would be the "last chance" to still get a reasonable price for it.
 

nathan_reilly

macrumors 6502
Apr 2, 2016
361
1,113
maybe take a look at how PPC second hand pricing looked during/after the intel transition?
 

alrazd

macrumors newbie
Oct 12, 2015
1
0
The thing is that I could afford it but I really don't need it right now. I'm still happy with the performance of my MacBook Pro, it still handles everything I do flawlessly. The one thing I'd really love to have though (apart from the the better display - but I don't really care that much about it) would be the quiet M1X chip. I mainly use my MacBook for music production and in bigger Logic projects, the fan in my Intel machine can get really loud which gets quite annoying after a while.
But yeah I guess that brings me to your second point - how bad I really want it. The quiet chip obviously doesn't justify spending so much money for a new MacBook. However, I'm just a little concerned that the price of Intel MacBooks will drop drastically in the next few months/years and that right now would be the "last chance" to still get a reasonable price for it.
If fan noise annoys you, and interferes with your work (sounds like it does), just upgrade. Having the best tools makes work fun. Good luck!
 

JamesMay82

macrumors 65816
Oct 12, 2009
1,474
1,205
My friend and I were chatting about this.. the big companies all like to sprout the green credentials but then next breath they are advertising for you to trade in your last years phone etc which to me cancels Put their carbon neutral speech.

upgrading your 3 year old Mac For fan noise sounds is hard to justify and wasteful to me in my opinion. It would also feel like a sideways upgrade while your machine is still fairly Recent.

im not an eco warrior by any stretch but I have noticed recently how everything in our society is disposable
 

macsound1

macrumors 6502a
May 17, 2007
835
866
SF Bay Area
Coming at this from a business perspective, it's always better to upgrade sooner than later because you're able to recoup more of your initial investment.
Nothing depreciates linearly, there's a steep drop off from it being "Used" and then plateau until the new tech rapidly supersedes it, then it drops to a fairly stable price it will remain until it becomes vintage and begins appreciating again.

Essentially, it's more economical to sell your "old" thing as soon as possible to the thing you're replacing it with, unless you want to keep both.

As far as Eco or green - you're not throwing it in the garbage, you're giving it a new home.
The company marketing a product as more green because 1. it's overall lifespan is increasing, meaning it's EOL will be longer from now that a competing product and 2. the materials it's made out of are more recycled and or easier to be recycled once it reaches EOL.
 
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JamesMay82

macrumors 65816
Oct 12, 2009
1,474
1,205
Coming at this from a business perspective, it's always better to upgrade sooner than later because you're able to recoup more of your initial investment.
Nothing depreciates linearly, there's a steep drop off from it being "Used" and then plateau until the new tech rapidly supersedes it, then it drops to a fairly stable price it will remain until it becomes vintage and begins appreciating again.

Essentially, it's more economical to sell your "old" thing as soon as possible to the thing you're replacing it with, unless you want to keep both.

As far as Eco or green - you're not throwing it in the garbage, you're giving it a new home.
The company marketing a product as more green because 1. it's overall lifespan is increasing, meaning it's EOL will be longer from now that a competing product and 2. the materials it's made out of are more recycled and or easier to be recycled once it reaches EOL.
the Eco comment - yes I know they are normally handed down etc but I was just pointing the slight hypocrisy from the big companies pushing the eco but then really pushing people into upgrades.

my friend bought a new to which is what started are chat and we were saying how grandparents would have the same tv or washing machine etc for 20 + year.. I just wondered if we all kept that attitude would the global warming issue be less of an issue?
 
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Madhatter32

macrumors 65816
Apr 17, 2020
1,478
2,949
From a business perspective, use what you have until it no longer functions. Hopefully that will be 7-10 years. Then buy a new one. Over the long term, this strategy works well as long as you can get your business done on your computer.
 
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jlc1978

macrumors 603
Aug 14, 2009
5,880
4,871
Coming at this from a business perspective, it's always better to upgrade sooner than later because you're able to recoup more of your initial investment.

The questions to ask are:
  • "How much additional revenue or cost savings will a new machine generate?" If the answer s zero, then all you are dong is adding an expense for no return. If there is, then ask:
  • "What are alternate uses of the money I would spend on a new machine?" If that generates a greater return then it makes sense to put money there instead.
There are other considerations, such as warranties ending, tax implications, etc. bu the thing to look at is the total cost of ownership in both scenarios and return on investment.

At some point, if you replace frequently enough leasing may be a viable option.

Nothing depreciates linearly, there's a steep drop off from it being "Used" and then plateau until the new tech rapidly supersedes it, then it drops to a fairly stable price it will remain

They usually take a big drop off he bat and then drop of somewhat linearly, at least that's been my experience with Apple products.

until it becomes vintage and begins appreciating again.

In some cases, but that is usually only for rarer items, not mass market ones. Even then, collectors what boxes, manuals and little or no wear for something to be valuable.

Essentially, it's more economical to sell your "old" thing as soon as possible to the thing you're replacing it with, unless you want to keep both.

That's often a stretch since you'e taking the depreciation hit up front.

As far as Eco or green - you're not throwing it in the garbage, you're giving it a new home.
The company marketing a product as more green because 1. it's overall lifespan is increasing, meaning it's EOL will be longer from now that a competing product and 2. the materials it's made out of are more recycled and or easier to be recycled once it reaches EOL.

Deigning for recycling is a key part of more sustainable manufacturing.

the Eco comment - yes I know they are normally handed down etc but I was just pointing the slight hypocrisy from the big companies pushing the eco but then really pushing people into upgrades.

That's the problem once a market matures - maintaining revenue needs upgraders to continue.

my friend bought a new to which is what started are chat and we were saying how grandparents would have the same tv or washing machine etc for 20 + year..

Things have gotten so complex the costs of repair often are near replacing. It used to be if a switch went bad you could easily diagnose it, buy a part cheaply and DIY. Now, that means replacing an entire circuit board in most cases, which can be expensive, if you can get one.

I just wondered if we all kept that attitude would the global warming issue be less of an issue?

Possibly. It needs to be part of a broader approach.

From a business perspective, use what you have until it no longer functions. Hopefully that will be 7-10 years. Then buy a new one. Over the long term, this strategy works well as long as you can get your business done on your computer.

That is the key. As long as it meets your needs and and a new one won't generate a return, reduce costs or increase productivity it's probably not worth it.
 

MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
6,975
6,354
there
Im all for upgrading MacBooks instead of buying new ones.
this concept is better for the planet and these MacBooks will simple work until they fail.

I will purchase a new battery, apple power adaptor and
something else into the MacBook air 2010 maybe next month.
this laptop still creates websites and edits photos and generates cash.

back in 2010, i told the sales person i will bring the MacBook air bak in 2020, which i did!
back them i knew that i could use this MacBook forever.
 

cardfan

macrumors 601
Mar 23, 2012
4,431
5,627
It’s always better to keep using as long as possible money wise. Sort of silly to think otherwise.
 
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jlc1978

macrumors 603
Aug 14, 2009
5,880
4,871
It’s always better to keep using as long as possible money wise. Sort of silly to think otherwise.

As I and other's point out, that is true if the machine meets your needs. If it doesn't, then it's time to look or a machine that does. Once size does not fit all.
 
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Boyd01

Moderator
Staff member
Feb 21, 2012
7,950
4,887
New Jersey Pine Barrens
As I and other's point out, that is true if the machine meets your needs.

Seems to me that this has already been covered, as the OP said....

I really don't need it right now. I'm still happy with the performance of my MacBook Pro, it still handles everything I do flawlessly.

I agree that it just doesn't make sense to upgrade until it's necessary. Computers just get cheaper and more powerful as time goes by. And, for the sake of argument, let's say you would get $200 more when you sell your old Mac today. Doesn't seem like such a good deal when you then spend $2000 on a new computer you don't need.

Now, the OP also said they could afford a new computer and they find some features of the new models attractive. In that case, sure go ahead and do it. But then you aren't looking at it "from a financial point of view". :)
 

chown33

Moderator
Staff member
Aug 9, 2009
10,999
8,887
A sea of green
... I mainly use my MacBook for music production and in bigger Logic projects, the fan in my Intel machine can get really loud which gets quite annoying after a while.
Make sure that all the hardware and software you use for music production will actually work correctly on an M1 computer.

For example, here's a recent thread about problems with software that's crucial for the member, but hasn't been upgraded, and there are significant technical obstacles to upgrading the software:

It will be tedious and probably time-consuming, but I recommend a complete check of every piece of software or hardware you use for production.

The reason I recommend this is because a single missing element in a production pathway can put a complete halt to that pathway until an alternative is found (if ever). Sometimes there is no simple replacement, so the lack of one element in a pathway leads to the entire pathway being replaced. It's the For Want of a Nail problem that cascades into unexpected consequences.
 
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SeenJeen

macrumors 6502
Jul 16, 2009
381
280
From this point forward, every year that passes your MacBook will lose about 15% of its value. Macs hold their value well and although many people want ARM Macs, there are still a group of people who want to run Bootcamp. M1 Macs don't offer this flexibility.

If it serves you well at the moment, I don't see a point in upgrading right now, especially if the new Mac you buy is similar spec wise to your current setup (ie. RAM, storage, etc.)
 

macsound1

macrumors 6502a
May 17, 2007
835
866
SF Bay Area
Of course you lose money whenever you sell something that's used, but tech that looks "like new" and that are less "old" will mean you lose less money. Just like cars. A quality car that's 2-3 years old will always retain it's value. Almost all cars that are 10 years old, regardless of brand or spec, will be around $5000 (in my area), unless they're vintage or incredibly rare.

So if you want to sell something and actually recoup some money for a new one, you have to do it sooner than later.
This is more or less how a lease works. You're using the vehicle during the height of it's value but getting rid of it while the mfg still knows it can sell it at a great price.

If you use something for its entire lifespan, you might lose the same amount of money overall because you've depleted it's worth and its value will equal all other "old" macs.

For example - a fully spec'd 2013 MBP sells for the same pricerange as any spec'd 2009 MBP because they're not "current" but a 2019 MBP still sells for more $$ than a 2017 MBP because people see the difference in performance as a difference in value.
 
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infinitejest

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
May 1, 2016
745
1,968
So many great points in this thread, thanks for sharing your opinions, guys!

Just a quick update - I decided to not upgrade for now. I came to the same conclusion as what @Boyd01 said. It doesn't really make much sense to spent ~$1500-2000 just to get a slightly better price for reselling. Like I said, I'd love to have a quieter machine but that doesn't justify spending so much money, especially when I'm still happy with the performance and everything else.

Also, since we see amazing performances with the ARM chips, and I've heard some great things of other producers and their M1 MacBook Airs, it could very well be that an Air will be more than sufficient for my needs when I really need to upgrade my machine in a couple of years. While I'd miss the 16 inch screen, I'd love to have a more portable and slimmer MacBook.

@chown33 Thanks for pointing that out. I'm still on Big Sure because of the exact reason that one of my (for me very important) plugins still isn't compatible with Monterey. But I totally forgot that the M chips are whole other story.
 
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MacGizmo

macrumors 68040
Apr 27, 2003
3,214
2,514
Arizona
Financial decisions are different between "business use" and "personal use." What makes sense for a business doesn't always make sense for a personal use computer where little-to-no income as a result of using the device. For business, I can justify buying a new Mac every year... it pays for itself in a month. For personal use, I can't justify buying a new computer until the current one no longer runs the software I want to use (which is typically 5-7 years).

For personal use, I always buy the absolute most I can afford to extend the life of the computer (more RAM, bigger SSD drive, better video card, upgraded processor, etc.). With Apple Silicon equipped Macs, it's a bit easier for most people, as the processor options are limited and there are no video card upgrades.
 

macsound1

macrumors 6502a
May 17, 2007
835
866
SF Bay Area
Financial decisions are different between "business use" and "personal use." What makes sense for a business doesn't always make sense for a personal use computer where little-to-no income as a result of using the device. For business, I can justify buying a new Mac every year... it pays for itself in a month. For personal use, I can't justify buying a new computer until the current one no longer runs the software I want to use (which is typically 5-7 years).

For personal use, I always buy the absolute most I can afford to extend the life of the computer (more RAM, bigger SSD drive, better video card, upgraded processor, etc.). With Apple Silicon equipped Macs, it's a bit easier for most people, as the processor options are limited and there are no video card upgrades.
Maybe that's the difference in our back-of-the-napkin math.

If you bought the base model 14" today for 1999 and sold it for 1600 when the M2 Pro came out, would you be spending more or less money over the 5-7 years?

You're losing about $350/year in resale value buying a new machine every year which is about 5.5 years if you kept the same base machine and let it completely depreciate. The difference is, you'd have new tech every year with upgrading every year vs absolutely having to buy something new at the end of 5-7 years because your amazing machine has been outpaced by your needs.

If you're actually specing the machine up to $3000 or so, you're losing even more money every year in depreciation because no one will want to buy your 7 year old computer for any more than the base model, just because you overpaid on RAM.
 

clevins

macrumors 6502
Jul 26, 2014
413
651
I have a 2019 16 inch MacBook Pro and I plan on upgrading to an Apple Silicone MacBook Pro in the next 1-2 years.

But what got me thinking now was whether it would make more sense from a financial standpoint to upgrade now, since I get more for my 2019 MacBook when I sell it now than in one or two years.

Of course (hypothetical speaking) that would also mean that I will have to upgrade the new MacBook Pro sooner than I would have to upgrade a M2X or M3X MacBook Pro. Which means more expenses more soon.

So, is there any sweet spot in terms of resell value and still good enough performance for selling?
Or how long do you guys usually keep your MacBooks? Do you keep them as long as you're happy with its performance or do you also take a good resell value into account?
it depends how you deal with cost. On a $/day basis, you want to update every 3 years or so (this will depend on the resale value in your market). Usually, at 3-4 years you can still get 40-50% of the original purchase price. Se my other post for some theoretical math on this https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...f-action.2330079/?post=30751763#post-30751763

BUT... that assumes that the performance gains every 3 years or so are big. If you're only getting a 15% bump in performance over what you have now, meh. If you're getting a 100% boost... that is a lot (assuming more performance correlates with your ability to do productive work). This also assumes that you can afford to layout a few hundred to a couple thousand dollars for a machine every 3 or so years.

In your shoes, I'd wait a year for a few reasons:
1) You're not limited by your current machine
2) In 6-12 months, Apple will be selling refurbished 16" M1 machines, saving you 15% off the new price.
3) I'd want to let the transition complete and see if they a) do a larger screen Air or b) release an update to the just released 16" M1.

Obviously adjust the math in my linked post to match your reality, but I think 3-4 years tends to be the sweet spot for most people.
 
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