Upset with Memory Swap in my M2 Mac Mini ?

[marcusalwayswins]

I have long heard that MacOS manages it's RAM pretty well, especially with the M series that Apple introduced a couple of years back. I have a M2 Mac Mini with 16GB of RAM and 512GB Storage which is Running the Latest Sonoma MacOS and I am an Individual/Home user who uses computer for basic needs and sometimes as a Hobbyist slightly delve into Photo Editing and Video Editing but I do that on a Hobby level and sometimes If I have to show or present something to someone, but It is not for YouTube or I am earning my bread and butter through it, it is all as a Hobbyist and personal need and use basis. And knowing this very fact only when I had the decision to customize the M2 Mac Mini I decided to not to splurge too much on RAM and Storage and unnecessarily have the latest and the greatest hardware when I don't even know if I would need it or ever I am gonna use it.

So now here I am, sometimes I use software like Photo AI from Topaz Labs and ON1 Photo RAW 2024 Which use heavy AI to enhance and update your Photos but when I use it sometimes I see in the Activity Monitor the Memory usage shows Some Memory being Cached and some Swap Memory being used in the range of 1GB or so and the Memory Pressure turns Yellow.

And it upsets the hell out of me !! When I see the Memory Pressure going yellow and Swap Memory being used.

Shouldn't the All Hail the Lord !! The Greatest invention on this planet the great M2 work like a Superman and an Avenger to keep this memory swap being used at Bay I mean c'mon I have 16GB RAM am I not from the elite club ? So how can this happen to me ?

is there something that I can do about it ? Or should I just ignore it. Cmon Man ! It was supposed to be the SuperHero the M Series MAC ?

 

[Fishrrman]

I've posted many times for years now in this forum:
"16gb is the new 8".

But it follows that... if you're a user of memory-intensive applications (I think Photo AI would certainly fall into this category)... that even 16gb isn't "what it used to be".

So...
You're not going to like this, but...
My advice is to:
- wait until the m4 Minis are released (looks like Oct or Nov)
and then
- buy an m4PRO Mini with at least 32/36gb of RAM and 1tb of storage.

 

[marcusalwayswins]

I've posted many times for years now in this forum:
"16gb is the new 8".

But it follows that... if you're a user of memory-intensive applications (I think Photo AI would certainly fall into this category)... that even 16gb isn't "what it used to be".

So...
You're not going to like this, but...
My advice is to:
- wait until the m4 Minis are released (looks like Oct or Nov)
and then
- buy an m4PRO Mini with at least 32/36gb of RAM and 1tb of storage.

So did I make a wrong decision as of now ? You hurt me Man !! By saying this !!

 

[bzgnyc2]

So did I make a wrong decision as of now ? You hurt me Man !! By saying this !!

It's important to seperate memory management from program memory needs. Mac is good at memory mangement but programs need what they need based on their design. You may have made the right choice based on your needs when you bought the machine (i.e.all the programs you used comfortably worked within 16GB) but unexpected needs or industry changes can lead to a jump in need. Great memory management can't fix that. Only more memory.

Unfortunately Apple has shifted to a model in which memory capacity is a life-of-the-machine decision determined at purchase. There are upsides to their model but it doesn't adjust well to changing needs or industry shifts. Like what you are experiencing...

So did you make the "wrong decision"? Only if you knew at the time of purchase you wanted to run a program that was clearly specified as needing more than what you bought. Beyond that you could have speculated on buying more RAM than you thought you needed but that just would have been speculation.

Looking forward, the M4 as the other poster mentioned will be superior than the M2 for AI/etc type work (e.g. I am sure it will included an amped-up NPU). If this type of work will be important to you then getting it and more memory at the same time will be a good upgrade.

Unfortunately I can't recommend how much memory you should get in order to last the life of that machine in this changing environment. I don't know that software nor where computational photography is going in general. For my own, very different, purposes I am thinking 32-64GB minimum for any machine not an Air.

 

[marcusalwayswins]

So did you make the "wrong decision"? Only if you knew at the time of purchase you wanted to run a program that was clearly specified as needing more than what you bought. Beyond that you could have speculated on buying more RAM than you thought you needed but that just would have been speculation.

This is exactly what has happened with me ! Little did I know that some point in the future or going just some months down the line there would be a Software that I will come across which I would love to use for what it promises and that will require more Individual APP memory.

So true ! Couldn't agree with you more !!

Thanks you brought out my feelings and thoughts in exact words !!

 

[Bigwaff]

but when I use it sometimes I see in the Activity Monitor the Memory usage shows Some Memory being Cached and some Swap Memory being used in the range of 1GB or so and the Memory Pressure turns Yellow.

And it upsets the hell out of me !! When I see the Memory Pressure going yellow and Swap Memory being used.

If you are not experiencing system slow downs or out of memory errors from applications, ignore Activity Monitor and swap usage. Let macOS do its thing. It will be obvious if your mac Mini is hurting for memory resources.

 

[gilby101]

And it upsets the hell out of me !! When I see the Memory Pressure going yellow and Swap Memory being used.

Using some Swap is fine. It is mostly for unused RAM pages. I would start to worry until at least 5 GB swap. Occasional memory pressure in yellow is also fine.

Topaz apps (even without AI) are memory hungry. And any photo app will use lots of RAM when using AI features. Nevertheless, if your actions are completing in reasonable time - don't worry. And, as a hobbyist, you can take a hit even if some things are a bit slow.

Try closing other apps when processing your photos. How big are your raw photos? And do you add lots of layers?

 

[marcusalwayswins]

Occasional memory pressure in yellow is also fine.

But occasionally it also gets red, The Memory Pressure

How big are your raw photos? And do you add lots of layers?

Those are not always necessarily RAW Photos it happens with a 5MB JPEG or a PNG File swell, if I am working in Photo AI from Topaz Labs or ON1 Photo Raw 2024.

I do not add a lot of layers, but yes some like 3-4 is normal. Without that, Photo Editing would you have done ? lol !

 

[bradman83]

16 GB of RAM to use professional level programs like ON1 Photo RAW and Topaz AI is the bare minimum. These are heavy duty programs, and depending on what you're doing with them they can swallow up RAM quickly.

That being said I don't think you need to concern yourself with memory pressure or swap usage unless you're noticing system performance start lagging. Too many users in these forums are glued to Activity monitor and flip out over seeing something they don't like, ignoring how their system is actually performing in real life. I have an M1 Pro 14" MBP with 16 GB of RAM and regularly use Photoshop, Lightroom, DxO PhotoLab, Luminar Neo, and a browser all at once. I'm sure my memory pressure goes into the yellow or red and swap gets used but it doesn't slow down my actual performance. Concern yourself more with how the machine performs and not what Activity Monitor says.

 

[thepyrate]

Others have said it and I will echo it - you are using incredibly memory intensive software, it will be incredibly memory intensive. The purpose of swap memory is to handle the overflow, so your Mac's memory management is doing its job well. I work professionally in post production and whilst I have iStat menus running 24/7 I am rarely looking at how much swap memory my system is using. Honestly, I am not really sure what your issue is here. No amount of "incredible memory management" will do much to alter the realities of how much memory certain programmes and jobs require.

I think you have maybe fallen into the enthusiast trap of trying to micro manage your computer, thinking that doing so will somehow net you one extra percent of performance. I've known pros working on things from fully decked out Mac Pros to entry level MacBook Airs and not a single one of them is monitoring their swap usage and memory pressure. They just start their software and get working. If it gets unusually slow, they might try to diagnose the issue, but otherwise they just do the job and don't think too much about what the computer is doing. You should try to do the same, you may feel a lovely sense of calm!

 

[Homy]

The minimum memory requirement for ON1 Photo Raw 2024 on Mac is ”16 GB if shared with the GPU”. The recommended memory is ”16+ GB”.

The minimum memory requirement for Topaz Photo AI on Mac is 8 GB for Apple Silicon. For Intel Macs and Windows it’s 16 GB of RAM and 6 GB VRAM.

On a Mac with 16 GB about 6 GB is dedicated to the system and max 10 GB to VRAM (65%). If 6 GB is needed for VRAM you have 10 GB for the system. If you use both apps at the same time you’ll have even less memory. The larger the image files are the more memory you need too.

 

[marcusalwayswins]

The minimum memory requirement for ON1 Photo Raw 2024 on Mac is ”16 GB if shared with the GPU”. The recommended memory is ”16+ GB”.

The minimum memory requirement for Topaz Photo AI on Mac is 8 GB for Apple Silicon. For Intel Macs and Windows it’s 16 GB of RAM and 6 GB VRAM.

On a Mac with 16 GB about 6 GB is dedicated to the system and max 10 GB to VRAM (65%). If 6 GB is needed for VRAM you have 10 GB for the system. If you use both apps at the same time you’ll have even less memory. The larger the image files are the more memory you need too.

No I don't use both the APPS together at the same time, and this happens even if I have let's say 8 tabs open in Safari Browser and I run either of those Software one at a time.

 

[gilby101]

No I don't use both the APPS together at the same time, and this happens even if I have let's say 8 tabs open in Safari Browser and I run either of those Software one at a time.

Which is what is supposed to happen when you have apps with large memory requirements. I don't have experience with ON1 (though its reputation is memory hungry) - only with Lightroom and a bit of Photoshop. Memory usage depends on size of images and complexity of editing. I would always recommend 16GB or more for anything but the simplest photo editing. (I have 16GB MBP plus a 96GB Intel iMac)

 

[Homy]

No I don't use both the APPS together at the same time, and this happens even if I have let's say 8 tabs open in Safari Browser and I run either of those Software one at a time.

You didn't mention how much memory each application uses when you see the pressure. You could take a screen shot of your activity monitor and post here. Then we could easily see where the memory goes.

 

[DaveEcc]

Memory usage shows Some Memory being Cached

This is not a bad thing. It's just the OS making use of otherwise unused free memory.

Anytime you read something from storage, the system hangs onto it, in case it's needed again, since it's faster to read something already in memory than to go back to storage to get it. Since it's just a copy, if anything else needs to use more memory, the OS can simply throw this data away.

The fact that it's keeping data Cached when you have swap may be an indication that the swapped out memory was not being actively used.

 

[benwiggy]

And it upsets the hell out of me !! When I see the Memory Pressure going yellow and Swap Memory being used.

Why? Swap is an essential part of the OS memory management. There is nothing wrong with having swap, in itself.

I have 32 Gb of RAM, and sometimes the OS uses swap, if it needs to. There is no problem. Get on with your work.

 

[marcusalwayswins]

Why? Swap is an essential part of the OS memory management. There is nothing wrong with having swap, in itself.

I have 32 Gb of RAM, and sometimes the OS uses swap, if it needs to. There is no problem. Get on with your work.

So how much Swap Memory is Ok and how much is not desirable ?

 

[zevrix]

Memory Pressure going yellow

16GB RAM

If your memory pressure is constantly going into yellow (not to mention red), it means you need more RAM for what you're doing. It's the official Apple recommendation, and it's also the reality.

And yes, when your memory pressure is in yellow, you WILL feel a degrading performance.

Don't bother worrying about swaps and shmaps - if your pressure is in yellow, you need more RAM.

I learned it back when I had an iMac 2017. Upgrading from 16 GB to 40 GB made a world of difference.

That's why I made sure to get a machine with plenty of RAM when I moved to M1 Macs.

Obviously, you can't upgrade your memory with today's Macs.

So if you ask me, your best option is to sell your M2 16 GB Mac and buy at least a 32 GB one (or higher, if you can).

It looks like your current Mac is pretty new so it will pay off a significant chunk of a new machine. I believe the advantages of increased RAM will make it worthwhile.

 

[Fishrrman]

Marcus, you didn't "win" on this one.

Stated again:
When the m4 CPUs arrive, get an M4PRO Mini with 36gb of RAM and a 1tb SSD.
That should be your "minimum"...

 

[marcusalwayswins]

Marcus, you didn't "win" on this one.

Stated again:
When the m4 CPUs arrive, get an M4PRO Mini with 36gb of RAM and a 1tb SSD.
That should be your "minimum"...

i will have to make a budget for that one from this Moment. Thats gonna Cost Hellva lot Money !!

 

[zevrix]

i will have to make a budget for that one from this Moment. Thats gonna Cost Hellva lot Money !!

My opinion:

If, in your budget considerations, you have to choose between getting a newer processor and the amount of RAM, then make RAM a priority.

That is, in my view, you'll be much better off if you get a used M2/M1 Mac with 64 or 96+ GB RAM than a new M4 machine with 32 GB (if you can afford this new Mac at all).

 

[benwiggy]

So how much Swap Memory is Ok and how much is not desirable ?

"Only start looking at numbers if you actually have a problem."

If you're not experiencing any noticeable performance slowdowns, then any amount of swap is OK.

(Cue rabid replies about preciousss disk writes.)