Using Mac Mini solely for Emulation

[212rikanmofo]

I plan on purchasing the base model Mac Mini M4 solely for emulation and gaming. Nintendo Switch, PS3, PS4, Arcade Mame, NES, SNES, Wii-U, Dreamcast, C64, Amiga, etc. and Steam.

I will get an aftermarket 2TB upgrade kit later so that I can have more storage space for my games. I have a few questions and concerns.

1. What's a good, decent wireless keyboard and mouse that I can use with the Mac Mini M4 that takes actual batteries? I have rechargeable double A and Trip A batteries and prefer to use those instead of having a built-in lithium battery.
2. What's a good software frontend app for emulation that covers all the different emulators? I prefer something like Openemu because of it's simplicity and UI. But was wondering if there's anything better since Openemu is pretty much dead and has been inactive for a long time now.
3. Is there a simple way to make the Mac Mini act like an Apple TV where you can use the remote control to turn the device on/off? This would be ideal since I will only be using this mac mini as a gaming machine.
4. Will the mac mini m4 be able to connect to my Denon X3800H AVR receiver? The Mac Mini will be in the living room along with my PS5, Bluray Player, etc. and I plan on connecting it to my home audio system.
5. Should I spend $300 to get a 2TB SSD upgrade kit or get USB-C Flash Drives instead to store all my games? I don't even think they sell USB-C flash drives with more than 512GB of storage so that is probably out of the question. But I do see 2TB USB-C external SSD drives for about $150.

 

[haralds]

You will be disappointed by emulation of PS4 and especially Switch with this model. WiiU (Emu) is ok. The Pro does a little better, but Switch is only good for a demo.
For emulating older consoles, a Pi5 would be cheaper and capable enough.
For gaming, you should also consider just going with an Intel based solution.

 

[dcpmark]

Sounds like you want a Windows-based solution.....I'm a Mac guy through and through, but I turn to Windows for my emulation needs, and there is no better frontend than LaunchBox, IMHO. I'm more of a Windows-based gaming handheld guy these days, and they can be quickly docked for use in TVs, AVRs, etc., but for more power you should build a dedicated HTPC designed for gaming.

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[HobeSoundDarryl]

I second both of the above. Consider putting your Mac Mini budget towards a gaming PC, skip the emulation layer issues, and enjoy native playback in actual Windows. Here's one built upon laptop 4070 graphics that should scratch all itches (except not being from Apple). I chose its predecessor for "old fashioned bootcamp" and I'm impressed with its gaming horses. If you need an Apple logo on everything, break out one of the stickers.

That's not the only such option but just one of several that I know that doesn't involve building one from scratch- which can be a good option too if you prefer. A YouTube channel run by ETAprime is regularly reviewing little PCs mostly for gaming purposes and he has reviewed plenty of Mac Mini-like ones in the last few months. You might want to watch some of those to help you narrow in on exactly which one you might prefer INSTEAD of Mac Mini. For example, here's his early review of the one I mentioned above...

I also second #3s endorsement of Launchbox for the Frontend app. It's absolutely terrific and getting better all the time. I opted to add the BigBox update for a pure gaming console-like UI instead of working within the Windows app UI. I find it worth it but to each his own. BigBox displays just fine with...

Bonus: install Moonlight on an AppleTV and you can "throw" the game from PC through the AppleTV to your television... very much like streaming a movie stored on a Mac through AppleTV to your TV. My older version of that PC is stored a few rooms away from the AppleTV and it all works just fine.

To your #3 & #4 wants, AppleTV will be the box at the TV and thus pass the game audio to your Denon. You control AppleTV exactly as you do now. Within the BigBox UI, you can control your AppleTV with the game controller. Moonlight app will process your controller action to flow back to PC as you play. I really didn't think all this could work well but it works VERY well.

Since it's a PC and not a Mac, there is tremendous competition for stuff like Storage and RAM... so you can load it up with either and/or add to either at any time instead of having to pay 3X-5X premiums for Apple versions of both and make such decisions up front. And while one like the one I offered has a couple of SSD slots for "standard, off the shelf" m.2 SSD sticks (at heavy competition-driven LOW pricing), you can always attach a big fat HDD for dirt cheap cost to hold all of your games and then some too.

If money is especially tight and/or you need some time to save up a bit more than Mac Mini pricing, note that Retroarch exists as an app for AppleTV now and it can readily emulate several of the platforms you listed. All you need there is a wireless controller(s). I've experimented a bit with it too and it works just fine. It just can't deliver on ALL of the emulation machine wishes you named.

 

[212rikanmofo]

You will be disappointed by emulation of PS4 and especially Switch with this model. WiiU (Emu) is ok. The Pro does a little better, but Switch is only good for a demo.
For emulating older consoles, a Pi5 would be cheaper and capable enough.
For gaming, you should also consider just going with an Intel based solution.

How so? I have a 1st gen Macbook Pro M1 and it runs switch games amazingly well. So I can't imagine how much better the M4 chip would be.n

 

[212rikanmofo]

Bonus: install Moonlight on an AppleTV and you can "throw" the game from PC through the AppleTV to your television... very much like streaming a movie stored on a Mac through AppleTV to your TV. My older version of that PC is stored a few rooms away from the AppleTV and it all works just fine.

Sounds a lot like Steam Link app. I use this to do the exact same thing. Is Moonlight better? Also what is Big Box? I really want something like OpenEmu as a front-end for all my emulation needs.

I figured that the base model Mac Mini M4 for $599 would be good for what I'm looking for. Are you saying those PC alternatives are better and less expensive? Looks matter to me, and most PC alternatives just look cheap and ugly. Is there something that looks clean and minimal like the Mac Mini thats under $599?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Don’t know if Moonlight is better, just that it works very well as described. If you go the way suggested, it’s a free app. So you can try and see for yourself.

Launchbox is like a deluxe OpenEMU. Big Box is like a UI skin for Launchbox. Instead of a UI for a computer like OpenEMU & Launchbox, it’s a UI more like a console (more like how you interact with AppleTV vs. interacting with a Mac). Use a game controller to make all selections instead of keyboard & mouse. If you hop on YouTube and watch some videos about Launchbox and Big Box, a picture will be worth a thousand words and a video will fully paint the picture.

Your second paragraph reads like you want a Mac Mini to use only as a Windows gaming computer in spite of 3 Apple people so far suggesting it would be much better to get a Windows PC to be a Windows PC. The exclusive use you intend will be better on a PC instead of working through an emulation layer on a Mac. In fact, what you are thinking you want to do is run an emulation layer on an emulation layer (game emulators on a Windows emulator on a not-Windows platform). There is gaming overhead costs in emulation that you won’t have to deal with if you are gaming on an actual PC. In this particular use case, an actual PC is the better tool for a purely PC purpose.

Still, you seem to want it anyway. If so, get a Mini as you want it. If the priority is “clean” and “looks like mini” and costs $599, aesthetics and variables to favor Mini are overriding maximizing the experience of what you want to do with the purchase.

A good gaming PC will likely cost more than $599 but then it will deliver a better PC gaming experience. It won’t look just like Mini but it can be completely hidden somewhere such that the only visible box is your AppleTV if you like. Mine is basically invisible in a closet a few rooms from the TV and Surround Sound system. It could be the ugliest, dirtiest case in the world and no one would ever see it anyway… instead perceiving that AppleTV is able to run some app called Big Box which is a simple (UI) gateway to about all classic games you want to play.

And big bonus: Wanting to play some modern AAA games? They are just about all available for PC, so that whole world of games is available to you too, ready to push PC hardware to the limits as opposed to only try to do as good as it can through an emulation layer on a NOT-PC.

If $599 is the most important variable, you probably should take some added time to save up a bit more for an ideal PC gaming machine. Mini isn’t it because it’s not native Windows. And while there are plenty of little PCs available for $599 and below, something more like an iPhone budget would get you one with Nvidia 40X0 dedicated graphics to really play games well. Hardware horses matter in important variables like frame rate, animation and resolution. A good chunk of hardware horses in a Mac Mini will be sidetracked by trying to fake being a PC. And there’s no 40X0 in that Mini either.

Can Mini be a “pretty good” gaming PC via emulation on emulation? Yes. But many gamers don’t desire “pretty good” gaming. For a modestly larger budget, “pretty good” can shift to “great.”

In the meantime, if cost is dominating your thinking, install Retroarch on AppleTV and enjoy some of the targeted game platforms without spending anything at all on any computer.

I hope this is helpful. I’ve been right where you are and faced very similar options. And like the other 2 who responded, I”m also a long-term Apple guy. Why are 3 Apple guys suggesting a NOT-Apple purchase? Because it will be better for specifically what you want to do with it.

 

[212rikanmofo]

I have looked into your suggestions above and reached a conclusion that I will purchase Launchbox and use Big Box mode along with moonlight/sunshine to steam all my games from my PC to my living room home theater setup. This is the most cost effective way of needing what I want it to do without having to buy a new computer. My PC is plenty powerful enough. I built it mainly for gaming and would love to be able to play and access it's games in my living room or any other room.

I wonder if I can use steam link app on the ATV instead of moonlight. But I've heard the latter is better overall.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I didn't know you ALREADY had a gaming PC, so you should already be set. It good that you can save the $599+ for something else.

I don't know about Steam link. I basically installed Moonlight and never even bothered trying other things because it worked so well. Moonlight basically just sends the display view, so anything at all that runs on the PC screen can be passed to the TV screen through AppleTV... including a view of Windows itself.

Experiment. It's half the fun trying a new idea and seeing what happens. Enjoy streaming Big Box through your AppleTV to your TV and surround sound system.

And Tip: set the resolution of your PC to match your TV's resolution for very best results. Else you can end up with some letterboxing or pillarboxing or a kind of warped (stretched) view on the TV if you use resolution settings that don't perfectly scale to fill your TV screen. I just switch my PC to 4K resolution (for a 4K TV screen) when I want to play something and then back to monitor resolution when I want to do computer stuff on that PC. If I was still using a 1080p screen, I'd switch it to that for gaming.

 

[212rikanmofo]

I ran into a problem though. Seems like my xbox controller isn't working with games when streamed to the ATV. It works when navigating Big Box's Menus, but as soon as I'm loaded into a game, none of the controls work. It seems that the controller needs to be connected/paired to the actual machine running Launchbox/emulator for it to be detected and work. I hope this isn't the case though. I was really looking forward to finally playing my games from another room.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I have no such problem but I don’t remember exact steps in setting it up either. Be sure the controller is paired with AppleTV and thus able to work with AppleTV games and UI. I think I recall going into Launchbox controller settings and maybe selecting or customizing some controller settings. And maybe that was through GeForce Now (too). But it’s been a couple of years and setup was a one-time chore.

I can simply say it can work so you can know to keep digging to get it working for you too. Once you succeed, you don’t have to configure again… just enjoy.

 

[dcpmark]

I ran into a problem though. Seems like my xbox controller isn't working with games when streamed to the ATV. It works when navigating Big Box's Menus, but as soon as I'm loaded into a game, none of the controls work. It seems that the controller needs to be connected/paired to the actual machine running Launchbox/emulator for it to be detected and work. I hope this isn't the case though. I was really looking forward to finally playing my games from another room.

I had the same issue trying to stream Steam games from my gaming PC to the TV in the living using Nvidia GameStream and my Nvidia Shield TV…..operated the menus, but didn’t work in the games. Never was able to figure it out, and eventually gave up.

 

[212rikanmofo]

Well, the controller is paired directly to my ATV and I am able to use it to navigate just fine, and also can navigate Big Box as well. Just doesn't seem to work when launching games from it. I am using moonlight/sunshine btw.

If I'm using steam link app, everything works fine. This leads me to believe that there could possibly be a configuration problem with Big Box, moonlight or sunshiine.

Are you using moonlight/sunshine to stream your games or steam link?

 

[212rikanmofo]

Update. Okay what seems to fix it for me was to add Big Box mode to Steam as a non-steam game. Then use moonshine on the ATV to connect to my PC and launch steam, and then once in steam big picture mode, select Big Box. My controller finally works this way!

 

[deckard666]

My M2 mini pro has no problems with Switch emulation and most of the time I’m running it on three times upscale too….

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Update. Okay what seems to fix it for me was to add Big Box mode to Steam as a non-steam game. Then use moonshine on the ATV to connect to my PC and launch steam, and then once in steam big picture mode, select Big Box. My controller finally works this way!

That seems pretty familiar to me. My setup is simpler because I don't have Steam involved or Sunshine but Big Box is in GeForce Now on the PC and Moonlight "sees" it on AppleTV and all plays just fine.

Glad you got it working. Enjoy (without having to lay out $599 for a Mac Mini)!

 

[212rikanmofo]

That seems pretty familiar to me. My setup is simpler because I don't have Steam involved or Sunshine but Big Box is in GeForce Now on the PC and Moonlight "sees" it on AppleTV and all plays just fine.

Glad you got it working. Enjoy (without having to lay out $599 for a Mac Mini)!

Geforce Experience got replaced with Nvidia app on the PC. So now there'sno gamestream feature anyomre. Which is why people use sunshine instead. I thought you were streaming to an ATV. I just lookedup what Geforce Now is, and its like a handheld device like the Steam Deck.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Geforce Experience got replaced with Nvidia app on the PC. So now there'sno gamestream feature anyomre. Which is why people use sunshine instead. I thought you were streaming to an ATV. I just lookedup what Geforce Now is, and its like a handheld device like the Steam Deck.

Sorry, correct. I am streaming to an AppleTV. I'm just mixed up on the names of the PC side apps. Definitely no handheld device involved. After setting them up, I have barely had to think of them- just play.

 

[212rikanmofo]

Sorry, correct. I am streaming to an AppleTV. I'm just mixed up on the names of the PC side apps. Definitely no handheld device involved. After setting them up, I have barely had to think of them- just play.

Then I'm assuming you meant to say Geforce Experience app on the PC then? But that app no longer exists and got replaced with the new Nvidia App. Which has no game stream settings anymore. So that's why people are using sunshine instead. How did you manage to use Geforce Experience when it's been replaced with the new Nvidia app which removes the game stream feature?

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I don't play every day and actually just noticed the GeForce Experience became Nvidia app in the last week or so (on my PC), during which I haven't played. I've also been experimenting with the Retroarch app on AppleTV and often use it, going to Big Box when I want access to everything vs. just select things that now run on Retroarch. Some of my all-time favorites run on Retroarch just fine, so that has created gaps in time between when I use Big Box.

So I just rechecked and see that yes, I'll have to set up Sunshine. Thanks for the info.

Update: Success! And that was a little easier than I expected to set Sunshine up, including making my own thumbnail for BigBox to show on the Moonlight screen via AppleTV. 600 X 800 .png file if anyone else is interested.