Very slow iMac after restore - Additional HD showing on desktop

[niwashikun]

Hi,

Background:
Our 2017 iMac was having a small issue with the Music App controls. After contacting Apple support and following all their recommendations we no longer had an OS and the HD couldn't be found for reinstall. While waiting for Apple call-back I tried recovery mode again but held command & r keys longer then usual and it opened a newer looking version of recovery, which allowed me to install a different version (I forget which). Apple called just as it was completing and they stayed on while I updated to Ventura and all seemed fine.

Issues:
1. However, now the iMac is super slow. It's constantly "thinking", sometimes beach balls but usually just very long delays with internal rumbling while trying to do anything really. Lots of other problems I've been fixing as I go. For instance, our photos were gone, so when prompted, I updated from the suggested location but then it wouldn't share folders because it wasn't a system photo library. Any way things just not behaving as normal.

2. Also, at some point I noticed what seems to be an extra disk in disk utility. Not the extra one from Catalina (Macintosh HD/ Macintosh HD-Data) but under a separate tree, now there are two separate trees and three volumes. It's named APFS Physical Store disk1s2 but is formatted as Mac OS Extended (Journaled). It also keeps showing up on the desktop which never happened before. I've tried un-mounting it from disk utility as well as ejecting it from the desktop but it keeps coming back. I'm wondering if this has something to do with the iMac's performance.

Next, depending on what I hear here, I will try erasing everything resetting back to original condition. Then update to Ventura and install back-up from external drive using migration assistant.

(Oh, and after all this, the music app controls glitch still remains😤)

I've attached a screen shot of disk utility.and

Thanks in advance,
Niwashikun

 

[Blade024]

This looks like one of the models with the 2-part "fusion drive" which had a small PCI-E hard drive that was bound with the primary boot volume as the cache.

 

[Juicy Box]

I don’t know the solution to your problem, but I suspect that your HDD, or possibly your SSD or both, us starting to fail.

Probably the HDD.

I have several Macs that had failed HDD’s or effusion drives, and the symptoms you have are similar to what I have seen in the past with drive failures.

It looks like it is a 1 TB fusion drive. The 1TB Fusion Drives in the 2017 iMacs had a tiny 32GB SSD (some earlier 1TB Fusion Drives had a much larger 128GB SSD). So, defusing the drive and running off the SSD is probably not realistic.

You could do that for troubleshooting purposes, if you just do a fresh install to the SSD, you can test to see how it runs. I think 32 GB would be enough for a fresh install.

If you have an external drive to use, preferably a SSD, you can use that for troubleshooting as well.

While it does give many false negatives, have you tried using the built-in Apple hardware diagnostic test?

What do you mean by this:

After contacting Apple support and following all their recommendations we no longer had an OS and the HD couldn't be found for reinstall.

I’m having trouble understanding what you mean. Are you saying that you followed Apple support recommendations, their troubleshooting, and the recommendations end up deleting your iOS?

If the HDD disappeared, that is also a common sign of a failing HDD. Sometimes it will disappear, sometimes it will come back, sometimes you can see it in disk utility but it won’t mount, sometimes it works, and sometimes you can see it but no files were open.

 

[txdawe]

It looks like you splt the fusion drive when you installed the OS. See https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT207584 for how to fix the split fusion drive. You will have to reinstall the OS though as fixing the split will erase the data.

 

[niwashikun]

Thanks for the reply.

After contacting Apple support and following all their recommendations we no longer had an OS and the HD couldn't be found for reinstall.

I’m having trouble understanding what you mean. Are you saying that you followed Apple support recommendations, their troubleshooting, and the recommendations end up deleting your iOS?

Yes, they gave me a list of things to try in order (they involved restarting the mac, which we were chatting on, so I did them myself). I can't remember everything but one was start in safe mode and test for the problem, and if it was still there the only option was to reinstall the OS. When I tried to reinstall from recovery it could not see my disk. I tried a few times and it kept changing the OS it wanted to install but still couldn't find the disk. The instructions said to erase the disk, which I didn't want to do until talking to apple again. So chatted with Apple again and told them everything and they scheduled a call back from a higher level. While waiting for the call, I tried starting up in recovery yet again, but this time I held down the keys a lot longer (instructions say until logo appears). It opened in a much more modern looking recovery screen and offered to install a different os from the other times. This time it worked. That's when I got the call back from Apple.

Sorry, I can't remember if I have the Fusion drive or not, is there a way to tell from the specs?

All I know is before all this, only the Macintosh HD showed on the desktop and in disk utilities it was a much simpler looking single tree.

Hope that helps.

 

[niwashikun]

It looks like you splt the fusion drive when you installed the OS. See https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT207584 for how to fix the split fusion drive. You will have to reinstall the OS though as fixing the split will erase the data.

Thanks for the reply.
Yes, using that link, I confirmed I have a split fusion drive.

Just to make sure I understand:
I fix the split fusion drive via the instructions,
I then reinstall the OS from recovery,
I then install back-up from Time Machine.

Have I got that all correct?

One question:
Does in matter which OS I reinstall? I understand I can use different key combos to install different versions including the original one.

Thanks!


P.S. Also a bit curious why the Apple tech said everything was fine when I told him about this, including describing the loist in disk utility. He even seemed a bit impatient as I read the long names of the disks and containers etc.

 

[txdawe]

Thanks for the reply.
Yes, using that link, I confirmed I have a split fusion drive.

Just to make sure I understand:
I fix the split fusion drive via the instructions,
I then reinstall the OS from recovery,
I then install back-up from Time Machine.

Have I got that all correct?

One question:
Does in matter which OS I reinstall? I understand I can use different key combos to install different versions including the original one.

Thanks!


P.S. Also a bit curious why the Apple tech said everything was fine when I told him about this, including describing the loist in disk utility. He even seemed a bit impatient as I read the long names of the disks and containers etc.

I guess the version you install needs to be compatible with the time machine back up you have.

 

[niwashikun]

I guess the version you install needs to be compatible with the time machine back up you have.

How do I determine that?

Also it seems that I don't get to choose the OS but just it's relation to my mac.
This is what the info from Apple says:

• If you just used Disk Utility to erase your startup disk, you might be offered an earlier compatible version of macOS.
• On an Intel-based Mac, if you use Option-Command-R during startup, you might be offered the latest macOS that is compatible with your Mac.
• On an Intel-based Mac, if you use Shift-Option-Command-R during startup, you might be offered the macOS that came with your Mac, or the closest version still available.
• If the Mac logic board was just replaced during service, you might be offered the latest macOS that is compatible with your Mac.

I know none of the OS I was offered before were Ventura. The back up is from Ventura.
Does that mean it's not compatible?

Thanks!

 

[txdawe]

If you do what you did last time (from the first post) - install whatever it offers then update to ventura you should be ok

 

[niwashikun]

If you do what you did last time (from the first post) - install whatever it offers then update to ventura you should be ok

OK, I'll give it a try.

Thanks!

 

[Rychiar]

id highly recommend buying an NVME ssd and installing Ventura on that and booting off that instead if you plan on keeping the machine awhile

 

[greyeyezz]

id highly recommend buying an NVME ssd and installing Ventura on that and booting off that instead if you plan on keeping the machine awhile

This and load Catalina back on your Fusion drive or whatever OS came with your machine as Ventura might be laggy on your older hardware.

 

[niwashikun]

id highly recommend buying an NVME ssd and installing Ventura on that and booting off that instead if you plan on keeping the machine awhile

Thanks for the recommendation.
If we can get our mac back up to speed we'll probably keep it for a few more years.

Can you elaborate. What is the benefit of/reason for your advice?
Why is it better to install OS from an external drive vs over the internet?
Sorry if that's an obvious question, but my knowledge is a bit limited.

2nd question:
I use a My Passport for Mac with Time Machine for backups.
Is it possible to also use that for the external drive to install the OS?

Thanks!

 

[niwashikun]

This and load Catalina back on your Fusion drive or whatever OS came with your machine as Ventura might be laggy on your older hardware.

Thanks for the info!

It matches with our experience that Ventura is a bit slow on our mac.

Ours came with High Sierra, are you saying we should stay with that?
Or do you mean just install High Sierra and then update to something later, like Monterey, but not Ventura?

If it's the latter, how do I choose a specific OS? My experience with recovery is that it just offers you an OS, you don't get to choose.

Thanks!

 

[Rychiar]

Thanks for the recommendation.
If we can get our mac back up to speed we'll probably keep it for a few more years.

Can you elaborate. What is the benefit of/reason for your advice?
Why is it better to install OS from an external drive vs over the internet?
Sorry if that's an obvious question, but my knowledge is a bit limited.

2nd question:
I use a My Passport for Mac with Time Machine for backups.
Is it possible to also use that for the external drive to install the OS?

Thanks!

The internal drive is making your whole machine run slow because it is slow. You’re prob reading and writing at 100mb/s. I don’t mean install from an external drive. I mean Run your whole machine off the external, as the SSD I recommended running over thunderbolt would give you a system that reads and writes at night 3000mb/s, dramatically improving your whole systems performance. Then forget the internal drive even exists. Use your passport to back the SSD up.

 

[Fishrrman]

What YEAR was the iMac you have made?

It looks like it has a "fusion drive" (small SSD and larger HDD "fused together" through software), but the "fusion" has been broken.

When you re-installed the OS, you installed it onto the SLOW platter-based hard drive.

I'm going to GUESS that the SSD portion in this one is too small to use as a "standalone SSD" -- looks to be only 32gb.

As mentioned above, I believe the best solution would be to buy a USB3.1 gen2 external SSD, and configure that to be the new [external] boot drive.

This is easy to do -- ANYONE can do it. It does involve several steps taken in proper order.

For an SSD, I'd suggest this:

SAMSUNG T7 Shield 1TB, Portable SSD, up to 1050MB/s, USB 3.2 Gen2, Rugged, IP65 Rated, for Photographers, Content Creators and Gaming, External Solid State Drive (MU-PE1T0R/AM, 2022), Blue

Samsung T7 Shield Portable SSD delivers high performance on-the-go, not matter the terrain. It has an IP65 rating for water1 and dust2 resistance, with Dynamic Thermal Guard to manage heat control. Transfer huge files instantly. USB 3.2 Gen 2 and PCIe® NVMe achieve soaring sequential read/write ...

www.amazon.com

 

[Rychiar]

 

[Rychiar]

What YEAR was the iMac you have made?

It looks like it has a "fusion drive" (small SSD and larger HDD "fused together" through software), but the "fusion" has been broken.

When you re-installed the OS, you installed it onto the SLOW platter-based hard drive.

I'm going to GUESS that the SSD portion in this one is too small to use as a "standalone SSD" -- looks to be only 32gb.

As mentioned above, I believe the best solution would be to buy a USB3.1 gen2 external SSD, and configure that to be the new [external] boot drive.

This is easy to do -- ANYONE can do it. It does involve several steps taken in proper order.

For an SSD, I'd suggest this:

SAMSUNG T7 Shield 1TB, Portable SSD, up to 1050MB/s, USB 3.2 Gen2, Rugged, IP65 Rated, for Photographers, Content Creators and Gaming, External Solid State Drive (MU-PE1T0R/AM, 2022), Blue

Samsung T7 Shield Portable SSD delivers high performance on-the-go, not matter the terrain. It has an IP65 rating for water1 and dust2 resistance, with Dynamic Thermal Guard to manage heat control. Transfer huge files instantly. USB 3.2 Gen 2 and PCIe® NVMe achieve soaring sequential read/write ...

www.amazon.com

Def the best way to go but Better to go thunderbolt 40gbps NVME drive

 

[KaliYoni]

If we can get our mac back up to speed we'll probably keep it for a few more years.

my knowledge is a bit limited.

Given your preferences and knowledge, I would follow @Rychiar 's advice and then use Ventura as your OS. Why? Because unless you are willing to spend the time and effort required to keep your computer secure and private for "a few more years" manually, it probably is better to be able to take advantage of Apple's automatic updates.

 

[Fishrrman]

The OP hasn't told us WHICH YEAR the iMac is.
It may not have thunderbolt3.
Tbolt would be a waste of money.
USB3.1 gen2 (if the iMac has USBc ports) would be much better value on an older Mac.

 

[niwashikun]

Def the best way to go but Better to go thunderbolt 40gbps NVME drive

Thanks for the clarification (makes total sense now) and video, etc.!

Sorry for the long delay. This mac is so slow I can only use it for short periods or I'll end up throwing it out the window;-)

This definitely looks like the best move. We were contemplating a new iMac but couldn't bring ourselves to downgrade to a 24" screen. So our other option was a Mac Mini with a Studio Display, a bit pricey for average everyday computer use.

A few more questions:
1. I read somewhere that the MVMe solution might end up too fast for the processor, degrading performance, unless processor is replaced. Also, the final speed is limited by various factors so the end speed might be quite a bit lower. If that's all true should I be looking for an MVNe with lower speed specs?
2. Do I need to build my own MVNe like the guy in the video did?
3. Since I'm rebooting from the NVMe does that mean I don't have to re-fuse the fusion drive or will that still play a part?
4. Any recommendations for an actual NVMe? A few VEEEERY slow google searches gave be an overwhelming array of choices.

Thanks again for all the info!

 

[niwashikun]

Given your preferences and knowledge, I would follow @Rychiar 's advice and then use Ventura as your OS. Why? Because unless you are willing to spend the time and effort required to keep your computer secure and private for "a few more years" manually, it probably is better to be able to take advantage of Apple's automatic updates.

Yeah, that's a great point which I hadn't thought about.
Thanks!

 

[niwashikun]

The OP hasn't told us WHICH YEAR the iMac is.

Background:
Our 2017 iMac

I've seen a few studies that show a correlation between eating computer keyboards and decreased reading comprehension.

Just kidding! But I am the proud owner of 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports.

Thanks for the reply and the concurring opinion on the MVNe.

 

[Rychiar]

Thanks for the clarification (makes total sense now) and video, etc.!

Sorry for the long delay. This mac is so slow I can only use it for short periods or I'll end up throwing it out the window;-)

This definitely looks like the best move. We were contemplating a new iMac but couldn't bring ourselves to downgrade to a 24" screen. So our other option was a Mac Mini with a Studio Display, a bit pricey for average everyday computer use.

A few more questions:
1. I read somewhere that the MVMe solution might end up too fast for the processor, degrading performance, unless processor is replaced. Also, the final speed is limited by various factors so the end speed might be quite a bit lower. If that's all true should I be looking for an MVNe with lower speed specs?
2. Do I need to build my own MVNe like the guy in the video did?
3. Since I'm rebooting from the NVMe does that mean I don't have to re-fuse the fusion drive or will that still play a part?
4. Any recommendations for an actual NVMe? A few VEEEERY slow google searches gave be an overwhelming array of choices.

Thanks again for all the info!

I didn’t have any issue. I used the wd black drive and acasis case this guy recommends in this specific video and followed what he says exactly . This particular drive goes on sale on Amazon very frequently as well. When I bought it it was $330 for 4TB and I thought I’d gotten a deal but over the summer I’ve seen it go as low as $220 for 4TB. Of course most people don’t need as much storage as I and ya can get the smaller size versions for well under $100

 

[niwashikun]

I didn’t have any issue. I used the wd black drive and acasis case this guy recommends in this specific video and followed what he says exactly . This particular drive goes on sale on Amazon very frequently as well. When I bought it it was $330 for 4TB and I thought I’d gotten a deal but over the summer I’ve seen it go as low as $220 for 4TB. Of course most people don’t need as much storage as I and ya can get the smaller size versions for well under $100

Got it. Thanks again!
I’ll report back once completed,(hopefully successfully🤞)