Vision - not Pro - Second Gen expectations.

[stocklen]

Interesting device but goes without saying that certainly at that price, the Gen 1 is out of reach for a lot of people, and also clearly Apple will learn lessons as people start to use it.

Although I am less optimistic regarding timeframe, I feel we will eventually get a more affordable version as a "non pro" device - either that or the Pro will start to lose hardware that hasnt really worked as intended.

The first thing I can see being removed to save costs is that freaky passthrough front screen eyes thing. It just looks weird and only benefits 3rd parties and doesnt contribute to the wearer's experience at all. I doubt that function will make it into gen 2.

Any other differences? Im not sure theres a lot they can remove without compromising on the functionality as a whole but I do feel they need to work hard on bringing that cost down otherwise it will remain a very niche product.

 

[stocklen]

... for example I also see them ditching the built-in speaker system and needing the headset to be paired with AirPods for its audio.

 

[Night Spring]

I totally agree on getting rid of the front screen to display the user's eyes. Other than that, I can't really think of any features that I don't want/need. Actually, being able to watch 3D movies is a function I'd be willing to forego if it'll bring down the cost, but I don't know if that function can be removed without degrading other aspects of the experience, like clarity of text, or ability to position screens where you want.

 

[stocklen]

I totally agree on getting rid of the front screen to display the user's eyes. Other than that, I can't really think of any features that I don't want/need. Actually, being able to watch 3D movies is a function I'd be willing to forego if it'll bring down the cost, but I don't know if that function can be removed without degrading other aspects of the experience, like clarity of text, or ability to position screens where you want.

no, the watching movies thing is a byproduct of having the virtual screen available - might as well if you can eh.

But, perhaps another thing they might ditch to make a more affordable headset is the ability to take 3D photos and videos - although again that might just be a byproduct of having front facing cameras for passthrough.

The front screen for sure is something that im sure nobody asked for, or nobody really wants given that it makes zero difference to the user experience.

 

[sunapple]

Wonder how far they’ll go to lower the price. Flatter design? Less sensors?

Maybe gen 2 is still a Pro but a lot improved, then gen 1 will remain as the SE version 😅

 

[tomtad]

Interesting device but goes without saying that certainly at that price, the Gen 1 is out of reach for a lot of people, and also clearly Apple will learn lessons as people start to use it.

Although I am less optimistic regarding timeframe, I feel we will eventually get a more affordable version as a "non pro" device - either that or the Pro will start to lose hardware that hasnt really worked as intended.

The first thing I can see being removed to save costs is that freaky passthrough front screen eyes thing. It just looks weird and only benefits 3rd parties and doesnt contribute to the wearer's experience at all. I doubt that function will make it into gen 2.

Any other differences? Im not sure theres a lot they can remove without compromising on the functionality as a whole but I do feel they need to work hard on bringing that cost down otherwise it will remain a very niche product.

Given these things don't even launch until next year, and it will initially be US only, I feel we're minimum 3 years out from a more affordable headset. The Vision Pro will always be expensive, at the end of the day you're basically getting a Mac in a headset, and is Apple's device to be at the cutting edge. Will the price fall? I presume so but this thing will always be 4 figures.

So what about a more affordable option? There's two ways I can see Apple going about this, either keeping the existing model around when the next-gen Vision Pro arrives (a Vision SE if you will), or stripping features out to get the price down. I agree removing the external screen is an easy saving, cheaper enclosure using plastic maybe, no speakers, and less performance (the Pro will be on to M3 or more by then). One thing I don't see them skimping on though are the quality of the internal screens which are key to the core experience, if you see pixels when reading text like you do wearing a Meta Quest for example you've failed. They may then be able to get this down to a 3 figure price tag

It will be interesting to see where this all is in say 5 years time. To me one of the big limitations is the battery life and other than having bigger battery packs I can't see how this will be substantially improved in the near future without some major breakthrough in battery technology.

 

[Longplays]

A M4-based Vision Pro will likely to occur Q4 2025.

This is assuming Apple keeps to a cadence of 19.5 months between M chip generations

- 5nm M1: Nov 2020
- 5nm M2: Jun 2022
- 3nm M3: Feb 2024(?)
- 2nm M4: Sep 2025(?)

For Apple to ship 1/3rd of a billion units of Vision Pro annually it has to be priced between $429-1599 like the current iPhone price range.

The 1st Vision Pro is likely to get a M3 chip when it ships next year. This is to improve the 2hr battery life.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Let’s see the first gen in wild with some real use cases. Who knows, there may not be a second gen

 

[Gamercraft567a]

... for example I also see them ditching the built-in speaker system and needing the headset to be paired with AirPods for its audio.

Bad idea 100% that just ruins everything if you don’t have airpods you can’t use it

 

[Gamercraft567a]

Given these things don't even launch until next year, and it will initially be US only, I feel we're minimum 3 years out from a more affordable headset. The Vision Pro will always be expensive, at the end of the day you're basically getting a Mac in a headset, and is Apple's device to be at the cutting edge. Will the price fall? I presume so but this thing will always be 4 figures.

So what about a more affordable option? There's two ways I can see Apple going about this, either keeping the existing model around when the next-gen Vision Pro arrives (a Vision SE if you will), or stripping features out to get the price down. I agree removing the external screen is an easy saving, cheaper enclosure using plastic maybe, and less performance (the Pro will be on to M3 or more by then). One thing I don't see them skimping on though are the quality of the internal screens which are key to the core experience, if you see pixels when reading text like you do wearing a Meta Quest for example you've failed. They may then be able to get this down to a 3 figure price tag

It will be interesting to see where this all is in say 5 years time. To me one of the big limitations is the battery life and other than having bigger battery packs I can't see how this will be substantially improved in the near future without some major breakthrough in battery technology.

Apple will probably make a vision air

 

[bobmans]

There's no things to remove except maybe the audio pods (airpods only) and the front screen.

My guess is that a cheaper version won't come out until the pro one is on gen 3 or 4 and the cheaper version will then basically be the same as gen 1. Production cost will go down as volume increases and tech advances. Removing or downgrading anything or a combination of things (except maybe the audio pods and outer screen) turn this product into something like the meta quest pro (which is horrible).

 

[orionquest]

Product cancelled.

 

[stocklen]

I think someone was right earlier saying that they could make the front panel out of plastic instead of glass. Although any scratches will seriously impede the device I suppose.

The first thing I though of when seeing that curved glass front was imagining how many people will be careless with their $3,500 device and headbutt a wall or drop them and of course they will be front-heavy and always land smack bang on the middle of the glass visor - I wonder how much that will cost to replace.....

 

[stocklen]

Product cancelled.

very possibly.

Apple will drop it like a hot potato if it doesnt sell enough - whatever metric they use.

I can see it going either way to be honest. That said it's more likely to fail if it remains at that price for a few years to come. Of course other "pro" machines remain relevant and for sale as I can only imagine Apple dont expect to sell that many of them compared to the lower-end counterparts.

I can never see a $3,500 device being mass market - it simply cant be at that price. Im sure there are people who will go out and buy one but not in big numbers.

Personally speaking, as an owner of an Oculus Quest 2 I can see and understand the use cases for the device but even taking into account the apple tax.... Unless this is 1,500 or less I dont see a mass appeal

 

[orionquest]

very possibly.

Apple will drop it like a hot potato if it doesnt sell enough - whatever metric they use.

I can see it going either way to be honest. That said it's more likely to fail if it remains at that price for a few years to come. Of course other "pro" machines remain relevant and for sale as I can only imagine Apple dont expect to sell that many of them compared to the lower-end counterparts.

I can never see a $3,500 device being mass market - it simply cant be at that price. Im sure there are people who will go out and buy one but not in big numbers.

Personally speaking, as an owner of an Oculus Quest 2 I can see and understand the use cases for the device but even taking into account the apple tax.... Unless this is 1,500 or less I dont see a mass appeal

Yeah I can see this quietly disappearing.

It seems like a interesting device, and Apple has put a lot of thought into it. But I dunno.. it just doesn't seem appealing at all.

 

[stocklen]

Yeah I can see this quietly disappearing.

It seems like a interesting device, and Apple has put a lot of thought into it. But I dunno.. it just doesn't seem appealing at all.

Price is everything.

Some are saying "I dont care what it costs ill buy it" and thats all very well if you have such eye watering levels of disposable income - good luck to you!

But, for the other 99% of the population things need to have a relative affordability.

Remember the first launch of the Homepod - it DIDNT sell as it was too expensive for what it was especially given the competition. Apple product or not - it didnt sell. It was discontinued.
Apple's other attempt, the HomePod mini, of course sold very well and was probably influential in revisiting the OG HomePod. But thats the difference between affordable and too expensive.

The V1 Vision Pro is simply too expense. Sure, it will sell a few, but not in decent numbers.

 

[Night Spring]

Price is everything.

Some are saying "I dont care what it costs ill buy it" and thats all very well if you have such eye watering levels of disposable income - good luck to you!

But, for the other 99% of the population things need to have a relative affordability.

Remember the first launch of the Homepod - it DIDNT sell as it was too expensive for what it was especially given the competition. Apple product or not - it didnt sell. It was discontinued.
Apple's other attempt, the HomePod mini, of course sold very well and was probably influential in revisiting the OG HomePod. But thats the difference between affordable and too expensive.

The V1 Vision Pro is simply too expense. Sure, it will sell a few, but not in decent numbers.

The key, I think is how much can we do with Vision OS? Apple didn't go too much into how stand alone the Video Pro is/isn't. If Vision Pro can actually replace your Mac, then the price becomes more palatable, as $3500 is in the same range as a Mac + high-end display.

 

[tomtad]

The key, I think is how much can we do with Vision OS? Apple didn't go too much into how stand alone the Video Pro is/isn't. If Vision Pro can actually replace your Mac, then the price becomes more palatable, as $3500 is in the same range as a Mac + high-end display.

From what I've gathered all the apps are iPadOS apps except all the white space is rendered as frosted glass, storage permitting you will be able to do everything you can do on an iPad on this headset.

This also confirms my view at least that iPadOS will ultimately replace macOS in some form as the apps become more feature rich.

 

[Night Spring]

From what I've gathered all the apps are iPadOS apps except all the white space is rendered as frosted glass, storage permitting you will be able to do everything you can do on an iPad on this headset.

This also confirms my view at least that this iPadOS will ultimately replace macOS in some form as the apps become more feature rich.

Maybe knowing their apps can be used in Vision Pro will finally give developers the incentive to make their iOS apps feature compatible with their desktop versions. We can hope!

 

[stocklen]

The key, I think is how much can we do with Vision OS? Apple didn't go too much into how stand alone the Video Pro is/isn't. If Vision Pro can actually replace your Mac, then the price becomes more palatable, as $3500 is in the same range as a Mac + high-end display.

If an iPad with its own discrete OS and own discrete apps hasn't seriously replaced a Mac in 10+ years......

... the VisionPro or even Vision(standard) wont be replacing a Mac anytime soon.

Would it replace an iPad? thats more realistic in the long term but not in the early years.

At the moment you need a Mac for the VisionPro to mirror the screen and control it - VisionPro is not a Mac - not by a long shot.

 

[orionquest]

Even if the VP was $500. Would you really want this as a device, computer, is it appealing at all.
To me no.
Some days I spend all day infront of my computer, it sucks but it happens, I don't see myself wearing this device for 8+ hours, and fiddling with stuff of a virtual screen, I just need to plow through whatever it is and be done with it, and not be fiddly.

 

[Ctrlos]

To get it ready for consumer pricing they will have to massively cut costs. This means Airpods for sound, no expensive glass front, no proprietary prescription lenses, no external display, no scary eyes and an M1 processor. In other words it wont look any different to existing VR products.

 

[stocklen]

To get it ready for consumer pricing they will have to massively cut costs. This means Airpods for sound, no expensive glass front, no proprietary prescription lenses, no external display, no scary eyes and an M1 processor. In other words it wont look any different to existing VR products.

This is the point though.

OK we all know it's an expensive product at $3500. many, many people - even the most die hard apple fans are just not able to afford that level of cost - its well in the vaulted "Pros" domain where they shell out thousands for high spec macs for serious pro-level work.

What interests me though is expectation on price cuts. Im absolutely certain that although the VisionPro is launching at $3500 - the price can come down but not nearly as much as it needs to. Apple havent really made drastic price cuts to anything before - and certainly not the 75% that it needs to be - so maybe the $3500 could end up at $3000 but no lower.

Then, of course you have the HomePod model. Make an expensive one - doesnt sell. Make a much cheaper one - sells plenty. Come back and make the expensive one again BUT remove various components to make it cheaper to manufacture - and drop the price by £50 in the bargain....
This is what im talking about in this thread......

In order to appeal to the masses and sell in decent numbers they will have to cut corners and make cost cutting changes to the design and specs in order to sell in any volume.


In addition to my other two suggestions i.e. removing the external screen and removing the speakers.... They could also remove the battery pack and sell that separately. This would pander to those who want the Vision but would always use it sat at a desk or somewhere else close to a power socket and the battery is therefore superfluous.

 

[Night Spring]

In addition to my other two suggestions i.e. removing the external screen and removing the speakers.... They could also remove the battery pack and sell that separately. This would pander to those who want the Vision but would always use it sat at a desk or somewhere else close to a power socket and the battery is therefore superfluous.

How much do you think the price will come down by removing the battery pack? Or the speakers, for that matter? The only element I can think of as significantly affecting cost is the front-facing screen.

 

[stocklen]

How much do you think the price will come down by removing the battery pack? Or the speakers, for that matter? The only element I can think of as significantly affecting cost is the front-facing screen.

not much at all.

But seeing as Apple sell the MagSafe battery pack for £$99 then thats another hundred they can lose.

Im NOT talking about the "pro" here - im talking about things they can shave off that they could sell as optional add ons to a cheaper unit.

The battery, the front screen, and the speakers are all things that you wouldnt miss if you had AirPods and were happy to use it static.