Warranty Denial

[Rocket-dawg]

I live in Thailand 5 hours outside Bangkok. I purchased a new MacBook Air here, and an AppleCare+ extended warranty that is still in effect. The computer was damaged in an accident at a construction site, seriously enough to bend/crush the computer. I bought it to the Apple store for replacement. The staff member stated it would not be replaced, rather parts would be ordered (none were salvageable) and a computer would be built for me, and the standard $300 deductible would apply. I politely said I'd never heard such a thing, that I preferred it be replaced that day. Sternly denied. He took the computer in the back room and came back with it in 5 minutes, placed it in a mylar bag and said, that's it. We'll call you.

Uhm, may I have a receipt that you have taken my computer?

Nope. We don't offer that. It's in our records.😳

Red flags went up, I asked again, still no. He required I sign his I-Pad to process and off he dashed. I found another staff member who did indeed print out a work order for my computer, with all parts listed. Total came to about 44,000 baht, ($1500), but all showed as waived with only the $300 due at pick-up.

Got home, three days later an email says the damage is not covered. Called customer service. He referred me to the agreement. In section 4, "What is Not Covered," it states:

(d) to repair damage, including excessive physical damage (e.g., products that have been crushed, bent or submerged in liquid), caused by reckless, abusive, willful or intentional conduct, or any use of the Covered Equipment in a manner not normal or intended by Apple;

Take out , including excessive physical damage (e.g., products that have been crushed, bent or submerged in liquid), and it clearly requires there be reckless, abusive, intentional conduct, which in my case there was not.

Yet, the rep is claiming that ALL "excessive" damage, e.g., products that have been crushed or bent, are not covered.

My lawyer back in the States agrees with me. Says it's quite clear, legally, that unless they are claiming willful abuse I am covered. The rep said Apple is NOT claiming it was willful. But, suing Apple is not something I wish to get involved in.

Has anyone here heard of 1) building a new computer (not directly replacing damage one from stock) under AppleCare+, and 2) had any experience with serious damage to their MacBook where coverage was denied? Any where serious damage was covered, no problem?

Am I getting the runaround?

Thanks.

P.S. Nowhere in Apple's agreement is the word "excessive" defined. That's a no-no on their legal department. "Excessive" is subjective; to one person it is totally different in meaning than to another.

 

[Aushiker]

I am unfamiliar with USA laws, but was your usage on the construction site seeing the computer used in a manner that would be considered normal or intended by Apple?

d) to repair damage, including excessive physical damage (e.g., products that have been crushed, bent or submerged in liquid), caused by reckless, abusive, willful or intentional conduct, or any use of the Covered Equipment in a manner not normal or intended by Apple;

 

[steve123]

I live in Thailand 5 hours outside Bangkok. I purchased a new MacBook Air here, and an AppleCare+ extended warranty that is still in effect. The computer was damaged in an accident at a construction site, seriously enough to bend/crush the computer. I bought it to the Apple store for replacement. The staff member stated it would not be replaced, rather parts would be ordered (none were salvageable) and a computer would be built for me, and the standard $300 deductible would apply. I politely said I'd never heard such a thing, that I preferred it be replaced that day. Sternly denied. He took the computer in the back room and came back with it in 5 minutes, placed it in a mylar bag and said, that's it. We'll call you.

Uhm, may I have a receipt that you have taken my computer?

Nope. We don't offer that. It's in our records.😳

Red flags went up, I asked again, still no. He required I sign his I-Pad to process and off he dashed. I found another staff member who did indeed print out a work order for my computer, with all parts listed. Total came to about 44,000 baht, ($1500), but all showed as waived with only the $300 due at pick-up.

Got home, three days later an email says the damage is not covered. Called customer service. He referred me to the agreement. In section 4, "What is Not Covered," it states:

(d) to repair damage, including excessive physical damage (e.g., products that have been crushed, bent or submerged in liquid), caused by reckless, abusive, willful or intentional conduct, or any use of the Covered Equipment in a manner not normal or intended by Apple;

Take out , including excessive physical damage (e.g., products that have been crushed, bent or submerged in liquid), and it clearly requires there be reckless, abusive, intentional conduct, which in my case there was not.

Yet, the rep is claiming that ALL "excessive" damage, e.g., products that have been crushed or bent, are not covered.

My lawyer back in the States agrees with me. Says it's quite clear, legally, that unless they are claiming willful abuse I am covered. The rep said Apple is NOT claiming it was willful. But, suing Apple is not something I wish to get involved in.

Has anyone here heard of 1) building a new computer (not directly replacing damage one from stock) under AppleCare+, and 2) had any experience with serious damage to their MacBook where coverage was denied? Any where serious damage was covered, no problem?

Am I getting the runaround?

Thanks.

P.S. Nowhere in Apple's agreement is the word "excessive" defined. That's a no-no on their legal department. "Excessive" is subjective; to one person it is totally different in meaning than to another.

Check their ads ... was there an ad or keynote with a guy wearing a hard hat and using a MBP?

 

[Rocket-dawg]

I am unfamiliar with USA laws, but was your usage on the construction site seeing the computer used in a manner that would be considered normal or intended by Apple?

d) to repair damage, including excessive physical damage (e.g., products that have been crushed, bent or submerged in liquid), caused by reckless, abusive, willful or intentional conduct, or any use of the Covered Equipment in a manner not normal or intended by Apple;

Thanks for the reply....actually, I was not using the computer at the time.

 

[Rocket-dawg]

Check their ads ... was there an ad or keynote with a guy wearing a hard hat and using a MBP?

Good question. I don't know. Seems like denying coverage if used at a construction site would be conceding their product wasn't durable. But, regardless, the MacBook was not being used at the time. It was run over by an errant bulldozer.

 

[richard13]

I think you are trying to out lawyer Apple which is not going to work. Could they have used a semicolon where a comma was used instead? Maybe. But I believe that Apple defines "accidental damage" as something akin to spilling coffee on the keyboard, or accidentally dropping it on the floor. Not "I brought it to a construction site and it got crushed by some equipment". They don't advertise their products as hardened or tough in any way. But that doesn't really help you anyway. You're just trying to get your computer fixed. And I wish you good luck in getting that done!

How you were treated at what sounds like the Apple Store is not right. The first person shouldn't have been so rude and definitely should have given you a receipt when you asked for one. That should just be offered.

 

[za9ra22]

Good question. I don't know. Seems like denying coverage if used at a construction site would be conceding their product wasn't durable. But, regardless, the MacBook was not being used at the time. It was run over by an errant bulldozer.

I doubt the denial of coverage is anything to do with use at a construction site, and the question of whether they do or don't concede their product to be 'durable' is rather moot with the kind of damage caused by a bulldozer.

My immediate presumption would be that a warranty is not intended to cover this kind of damage since it is not due to any action, defect, production process or materials that Apple or their suppliers have or had any control over. Warranties, including AppleCare are not written as insurance policies, or generally to be taken as replacements for them.

You also point out that in no place is 'excessive' defined, and in practical terms it can't be. Instead, judgement on what is or isn't excessive is usually based on the principle of 'what a reasonable person would think'. I'd take a guess that such a reasonable person would look at a device run over by a bulldozer, and think the damage excessive.

I would say that you likely have a good claim for damages against the operator of the bulldozer, or the supervisor of the building site.

 

[canuckRus]

Credit card purchase protection or under household insurance coverage?

 

[steve123]

It was run over by an errant bulldozer.

Ahhh ... I can see why Apple does not want to cover the repair, the damage is not a result of a manufacturing defect. Rather, the dozer operator caused the damage.

 

[vanc]

Ahhh ... I can see why Apple does not want to cover the repair, the damage is not a result of a manufacturing defect. Rather, the dozer operator caused the damage.

AC+ covers accidental damage, even for a perfectly manufactured device.

Here is mine:

 

[Clix Pix]

Good question. I don't know. Seems like denying coverage if used at a construction site would be conceding their product wasn't durable. But, regardless, the MacBook was not being used at the time. It was run over by an errant bulldozer.

How did that happen? Had you left the computer in what turned out to be an unsafe location on-site in the actual construction area rather than in an office at the site or your vehicle?

 

[bill-p]

I think you are trying to out lawyer Apple which is not going to work.

Yeah but the terms for AppleCare+ on Mac are very contradictory. For instance...

If during the Plan Term you submit a valid claim notifying Apple that the Covered Device has failed due to accidental damage from handling resulting from an unexpected and unintentional external event (e.g., drops and damages caused by liquid contact from spills) (“ADH”)

(l) to protect against damage caused by the presence of hazardous materials, including, but not limited to, biological materials and allergens, that present a risk to human health.

I'm guessing what this may mean... (but it doesn't state it very clearly) is that... if you drop water on your Mac and that shorts out the keyboard? You're covered.

If you spill acid on your Mac? You're out.

"Accidental damage" coverage for Macs with AC+ is a joke compared to the same service offered for iPhone and iPad users. The language in that same AC+ document for iPhones and iPads clearly states that you're covered even if Zeus himself disintegrates your iPhones and iPads.

 

[bill-p]

AC+ covers accidental damage, even for a perfectly manufactured device.

Here is mine:

View attachment 2355370

AC+ covers "accidental damage" for Macs but as far as "accidental damage" is concerned, Apple's language for the document basically limits it to either specifically... drops or... water damage. Specifically water damage because you can read what I just posted above. Acid is not covered.

All other instances? They can deny coverage due to the massive list in section 3.1:

Legal - AppleCare+ for Mac - Apple

P.S.: just saw that if the serial number is scratched or faded, that's also grounds for them to deny coverage. So yeah, better protect the bottom of your MacBook from scratches.

 

[vanc]

Yeah but the terms for AppleCare+ on Mac are very contradictory. For instance...





I'm guessing what this may mean... (but it doesn't state it very clearly) is that... if you drop water on your Mac and that shorts out the keyboard? You're covered.

If you spill acid on your Mac? You're out.

"Accidental damage" coverage for Macs with AC+ is a joke compared to the same service offered for iPhone and iPad users. The language in that same AC+ document for iPhones and iPads clearly states that you're covered even if Zeus himself disintegrates your iPhones and iPads.

That's true. Devil is in the details.

 

[steve123]

AC+ covers accidental damage, even for a perfectly manufactured device.

Here is mine:

View attachment 2355370

Interesting, I forgot about the accidental damage coverage. Indeed, Apple is selling a form of insurance. So, unless he intentionally placed the Mac in the dozer's path, he may have a legit claim, but paragraph 3.1(b) appears to rule it out ...

(b) to protect against excessive or catastrophic physical damage to Covered Equipment (e.g., products that have been crushed or bent) or excessive or catastrophic damage to Covered Equipment caused by liquid contact (e.g., products that have been partially or wholly submerged in liquid);

 

[za9ra22]

I think the denial of cover would be more to do with:

"Apple will not provide Hardware Service or ADH Service in the following circumstances:

....

(b) to protect against excessive or catastrophic physical damage to Covered Equipment (e.g., products that have been crushed or bent) or excessive or catastrophic damage to Covered Equipment caused by liquid contact (e.g., products that have been partially or wholly submerged in liquid);
...."

But that's just a guess. The OP should be able to request a reason for the denial of service, which should detail the specific decision.

On edit: Aha, @steve123 - beat me to it!

 

[Rocket-dawg]

Well, they continued to state that "excessive" damage, though not defined in the agreement and therefore arbitrary, was not covered. And I continued to call and speak politely (for hours) with customer service senior management in various countries.

Now they have agreed to replace the MacBook, politely noting that they are making an exception for me.

Okay.

 

[steve123]

Well, they continued to state that "excessive" damage, though not defined in the agreement and therefore arbitrary, was not covered. And I continued to call and speak politely (for hours) with customer service senior management in various countries.

Now they have agreed to replace the MacBook, politely noting that they are making an exception for me.

Okay.

That sounds like the way they used to do things. If you do not abuse them they can be very sympathetic.