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What are the top excuses by biz for not switching? Lack of software?

GeneR

GeneR

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 2, 2003
708
0
The land of delusions, CA.
What I am wondering is what makes PC users so resistent to switching to Apple. Can we come up with a list of business applications that bar these people from using Macs in their business? I think if we can isolate which programs seem to come up as the reason(s) maybe a more effective "Switch" campaign could be made...

Perhaps getting an overall idea of what would make a business owner want to invest his computer funds on Apple rather than on PC's would be a good idea. Does Apple have better security? Better networking? Better integration of technology? There has to be a really compelling reason here besides the ones about Apple's easier use and design. Perhaps could it be the fact that Powermacs still don't have a OOP database like Access? I dunno.

Please help me brainstorm with this one. I certainly would appreciate it. Thanks!

:D
 
In a word, speed.

IMHO, anyway. but i have heard people remark that there's no way they're going to take the risk of getting a Mac, especially when they're less than half the speed of a lot of computers...

don't try explaining the "MHz myth" to these people.

Also, people still seem to think that Macs are more "kids" computers, almost in the running with those Vtech learning "computers" they sell for $49.99 at walmart-- that they're OK for pre-determined software like education, but you can't really *do* anything with them. Obviously if they use a mac for a few minutes, they'll understand how powerful they are, but that alone is hard to do...

The other thing is that some people may not see the *difference* between platforms. They just think Apple hardware is twice as expensive, and runs something almost identical to windows-- but can't run any software.

pnw
 
I think the biggest reason is the fact that people in general resist change.

I don't mean just Apple computers, but everything. They get comfortable with something, and it doesn't matter how much better, cheaper, whatever something else is, they stay with what they have. To break that, you have to have a really compelling reason to switch, and in this case, Apple does not have it. I really believe for a variety of technical reasons, Apple in most cases has a better product, but that is totally irrelevant to the average buyer.

Back in the '70s and early '80s, there was a saying in IT "You can't get fired for buying IBM". It was true and a lot of IT managers would not buy anything that did not have an IBM logo because of it. That changed when companies started buying thousands of desktop computers. At the time, IBM was about twice as expensive as Compaq representing $2000 - $3000 per system. So, if I was buying say 1000 systems, and the difference in cost between IBM vs clones was the same as the cost of a mainframe, I had a compelling reason to change. Hence, Compaq won the desktop war and IBM lost its grip on IT.

Today the saying is "You can't get fired for buying Microsoft". Eventually, MS will fall. Companies that have a monopoly always do because someone will develop that killer idea and the monopolist refuses to react to the market fast enough. It will be interesting to see what the killer idea is.
 
Same as it has always been: Self-preservation. Can you imagine any PC-centric IT department saying. "Hey, let's get Mac's. There cheaper for the company in the long run, and they can lay a bunch of us off! Yay!" Most are like that in my experience. The rest are just lazy and stupid. No vision, man.
 
plus i think there is just lots of software that run certain businesses. the businesses i am about to name are computer areas that apple isnt really aiming for. like the little software, like the software that runs our bowling alley in our town, or lots of the grocery stores have dells that run the scanner software. Our POS software is POSIM and we have to run it on an old machine, i wish they would make an os x version so we could upgrade our machine we do with POS stuff with or at least apple can offer there POS software to resellers, buti dont see that happening.

iJon
 
Cost. While I am often the first to counter this argument, it is still one of the top reasons.

Also, in the pro-graphics department there is a lack of 3D software for Mac. But I think you were really asking more from the average consumer's point of view, right?

Dan
 
The list so far...

THE LIST SO FAR:

1.) People resist change.

1A.) (From another thread) People have invested too much in their PC software already to want to reinvest in something different.

2.) PC People are ignorant of Macs as serious computers. (Perhaps that's a good angle)...Solution: Rendezvous, MS Office X?

2A.) Price perception of Macs. Still seen as too expensive. (What bothers me about this one is that in another thread people are still talking about how they can build their own PCs for $500.00 so they have no incentive to go Mac. This is a tough one.)

3.) Lack of software to replace Win software -- i.e. bowling alleys, etc.

Don't have a clue about whether Apple should address these sorts of venues. Although iJon makes some interesting points.

4.) Lack of 3D software.

5.) Self-Preservation of the IT Department. They want problems so they can keep their jobs. (This is a VERY good angle for a commercial, isn't it? Then again, isn't it better to have Sys Admins on our side so they recommend buying Apple? And what do people in IT say about Xserve anyway? Does it warrant praise?)

COMMERCIAL IDEA#1: "Figured Out."

FADE IN:

TWO CTOs of rival or even sister companies talk about their problems/solutions over lunch. We see their hands, their mouths. One talks about how bad his bugs have been, and the headaches that come with licenses for their server department, the service contracts. The other is sympathetic.

Finally, the first CTO notices that the second one hasn't complained the entire conversation. He turns to him.

CTO#1
You too, huh?

CTO#2
Uh, no.

CTO#1
No?

CTO#2 smiles.

CTO#2
Let's just say, I have it figured out.

CTO#1
Oh. Really? Huh.

Off CTO#2's smile, we

FADE TO:

Apple Logo.

6.) The "Speed Myth"... Don't see how there can be an effective attack on this one unless you have two people -- one with a PC and the other with a Mac doing the same job. And then the Mac wins in speed, even though the MHz is clearly lower than the PC.

CONCERN: Is it really a myth? Some people on this boardsite have been saying that it isn't a myth. (I can't remember who or where) If this is to be attacked effectively then do we have something that will make it more obvious?
 
its the cost. I'd have switched years ago, but I've never had enough money. It was always easier to buy the cheaper POS pc then scrape up all the cash for the pretty mac that runs better. I'll be a switcher (well bi switcher since I'll have a pc desktop still until 970's come out) in a month and a half, but thats because I've been saving up money for a while. My parents refuse to switch based on cost and most of my friends (who have the most godawful pcs known to man) refuse to switch because they are stuck in this "we must have windows" world. My friend got RID of her cable modem internet services to go back to AOL dialup! The reason was because AOL was familiar and easier to use. :)mad: ) Thats just my own person opinion on why windows users won't switch.
 
Re: The list so far...

Originally posted by GeneR
THE LIST SO FAR:
3.) Lack of software to replace Win software -- i.e. bowling alleys, etc.

Don't have a clue about this one.

4.) Lack of 3D software.
Click to expand...
were you quoting number 3 or number 4. all i was saying its just that little software that i notice around town that run certain small software, bowling alleys, grocery stores, the software were i check in at the dentist, little programs that small businesses need. from a consumer stand point i wouldnt care, but if i was running a business i wouldnt be able to use a mac just becasue the mac doesnt have some of that little software to do simple things, you see what im talking abotu guys. but like i said earlier, i dont think apple is after that type of market, but on the other hand, apple could use any type of market than get.

iJon
 
Re: Re: The list so far...

Originally posted by iJon
but like i said earlier, i dont think apple is after that type of market, but on the other hand, apple could use any type of market than get.

iJon
Click to expand...

I don't think it's as much Apple not "being" in that market as it is the majority of people and apps are PC-centric. There is a local art supply store 'round here that uses an iMac as the cash register.


I think the biggest reasons are ignorance (kinda like fear of change) and money (especially in a tight economy). A computer is a pretty big investment and people would rather drop cash on something they know rather than take a chance w/something new.

Example of ignorance, I'm talkin' w/my gf 'bout how I'm tryin' to get my parents to buy an iMac (they are lookin' for a new computer right now). And, long story short, we get into a fight 'cause she doesn't think it's a good idea even though she's, to the best of my knowledge, never used a Mac (at least not recently), all of her arguements boiled down to "well I heard..." or "This guy told me once..." and she's 'bout average when it comes to computer users. She's talkin' to me like I don't know crap 'bout computers even though I build the freakin' things and I have a dual gig QS under my desk next to my PC. Argh! that infuriated me to no end! What made it worse was that everything she said was wrong and she didn't even know it.
/rant


Lethal

EDIT: 1 more reason: Conformity. People don't want to be different. That's one reason I think creative pro's prefer Macs is 'cause they are different. "Think Different" is one of my favorite ad campagins<sp?> ever for any product.
 
In regards to the MHz myth. Yes, it is a myth, to a point. PC's use CISC, Complex Instruction Set Computing... Macs use RISC, Reduced Instruction Set Computing. So MHz aside, the Mac can accomplish the same thing with much less processor commands, so despite MHz (which is millions of operations per second), the computer still runs faster. However, this is only a good arguement to a particular ratio, which is widely argued... Personally, i believe about a 1:1.5 ratio, one GHz on Mac equals about 1.5 GHz on a PC. But as PC's continue to gain MHz speed, we have somewhat stalled.

Many argue that the MHz myth ratio is so big that we're still faster than current Intel processors. I say that you only have to use a PC to realize that it's not true anymore. Soon, tho, we'll have a whole generation of chips that will push us back in the running again :)

pnw
 
The List 2.0

THE LIST SO FAR (2.0):

1.) People resist change.
1A.) Conformity.
"Conformity. PC People don't want to be different. That's one reason I think creative pro's prefer Macs is 'cause they are different."
(Credit: LethalWolfe)

1B.) Comfort Zone.
"People get comfortable with something, and it doesn't matter how much better, cheaper, whatever something else is, they stay with what they have. To break that, you have to have a really compelling reason to switch..."
(Credit: gbojim)
(Similar mention by: TonicAngel)

1C.) (From another thread) People have invested too much in their PC software already to want to reinvest in something different.

2.) PC People are ignorant of Macs as serious computers. (Perhaps that's a good angle)...Solution: Rendezvous, MS Office X?

2A.) Price perception of Macs. Still seen as too expensive. (What bothers me about this one is that in another thread people are still talking about how they can build their own PCs for $500.00 so they have no incentive to go Mac. This is a tough one.)
(Credit: alset)

3.) Lack of software to replace Win software -- i.e. bowling alleys, etc.
(Credit: iJon)
Don't have a clue about whether Apple should address these sorts of venues. Although iJon makes some interesting points.

4.) Lack of 3D software.
(Credit: alset)

5.) Self-Preservation of the IT Department. They want problems so they can keep their jobs.
(Credit: Les Kern)

6.) The "Speed Myth"...
(Credit: PaulWhannel)
CONCERN: Is it really a myth? Some people on this boardsite have been saying that it isn't a myth. (I can't remember who or where) If this is to be attacked effectively then do we have something that will make it more obvious?

Apparently, PC chips are getting faster than Macs from the sound of it. This may be a weakness at the moment, so maybe concentrating on Apple's strengths for the time being is a good idea. When the next chips come out, I'd like to think that we'll be back on top again.

7.) Misinformation within the PC community
(Credit: LethalWolfe)

NOTE: I think it is worth noting that edesignuk did post this same thread idea before and he should get credit for doing so. I guess it must have been overlooked. I hope, edesignuk, you don't feel bad about this. I'd like to think that it was an oversight that is being remedied by all the thoughtful comments on this thread.
 
An Insiders View

Before I make any comment: I work in IT for CitiGroup (the world largest financial company for those who don't know). Any comments I make here are my own views and do not necessarily represent the views of the company, it's managment and so on.

The biggest reason that we don't/can't switch is shareholder value. Would a switch (of more than 250,000 desktops + servers) improve shareholder value. Well lets look at it. 250,000 Mac desctops would cost at least $250,000, but would probably cost nearer $500,000. In addition we would have to negotiate re-licensing with all of the vendors we have bought software from. But the biggest cost would be redeveloping all of the custom win32 apps that we have developed. These apps are all proprietary and are part of what gives us our competative edge. The cost of redeveloping all of these apps would be in the multi-million dollar range. All of our desktop support staff are PC specialists so we would need to retrain them all, or get new staff. A conservative estimate for this would be another $200,000. We would also need to retrain all desktop staff to ensure that they could use the new desktops. Again this would be a cost greater than $250,000. So the costs are massive (I have skipped many, many more costs). What is the benifit. The machines might be more stable, but most of our desktops seem to be stable with win2000 (mine crashes sometimes, but most last Mon->Fri without rebooting). They might be easier to use, but not to start with and most of the ease of use is dependent on our own apps. As they will be written in-house we can assume that they would be about as easy to use as before.

So in conclusion we would simply be burning a massive amount of profit/shareholder equity in making this switch for very little corporate benifit. If senior management made this decision serious questions would be asked and the company might even get sued by the shareholders.
 
I think employees of those collective offices, should be asked about what applications they use and how they use them, we can only speculate here..

From what I've seen (a company that does nothing about computers), they use MS Office most (Excel a lot), they print, send e-mails...
Perhaps Apple could "rent" mac geniuses who would inspect switching from pc to mac, make network work, printers, set up apps etc.

I believe some kind of eMac SE (just for psychological effect, simmilar to iMac - iMac DV when it came out) or cheap PowerMac is needed for that segment.
I think those people wanna buy cheapest but they think it is wrong to get low end machine. so they get PC.

And Apple should really get rid of those switch for dummies ads. They should put people who analyze DNK or make video/3D stuff in them and make hardware and macs in first perspective, not people. Also, a commercial in which they show some mac running games would also be very nice because people want to play games and sends message that macs can do everything.
 
I think the biggest factor is the fact that Macs are never even considered for businesses. That being the case it should be explored why they are not considered.

I think a lot has to do with peoples perception of Macs. For instance two co-workers of mine could not understand why I had a Mac laptop (iBook). Today I just happend to pop out my iBook at work and they were absolutely amazed at how cool it looked, how long the battery lasted, how cool OS X is, etc. They both commented on how they had no idea Macs were so neat these days.

Whatever that is worth there is also the bottom line that must be considered. I know for a fact that a business can order PCs around 2GHz with 15" LCDs for $500 from big PC companies. How in the hell is Apple supposed to compete with that?

What about support? How many MSCE are there around? A bushel and half plus or minus more. It is very easy to get support/help with your PCs because everybody knows somebody who knows thier stuff. I for one do not know anybody who knows Macs inside and out. I have no one to turn to other than message boards and such. I'm sure I'm not the only one out there.
 
Education Education Education

I actually think that the education market can be as harmful as it is beneficial.

I know from experience at 2 schools, and 2 universities that the Macs and PCs are not maintained well. This means they f-up and piss people off - if you're about to leave uni and get a job (ie: money) then you might be buying a computer. If the Mac at college was a peice of trash due to the way it was kept, you're going to look at everything but the Mac.

I speak from experience in UK schools and uni's - though only a tiny amount of students in the UK have computers compared to the US, and broadband at home/college dorm - pretty much forget about it!
 
servers, software, support, compatability, cost

A company I am working with right now needs to purchase around twenty thousand dollars worth of computer equipment. The company manufactures plastic components for consumer packaging. Why on earth would I recommend they sign a purchasing order for mac equipment.

The cheapest new Apple machine is hundreds of dollars (the cost of monitors is not an issue since the company never gets rid of old ones it just passes them down the line) more expensive than the pc that is needed for the foremen to enter data into the database. That database is an MS Access database so an Apple is out right away. All the computers that need to use the database fully need to be PC. Why do they use Access, because they can and their IT guy can do it and everyone can use it fine.

They have a special piece of software for the plant sanitization schedule and procedures, not available for apple. As far as internal email, messaging, collaboration software and document management (for the hundreds of thousands of pages of procedures manuals we have) their best bet is MS. For cheaper than a similiarly configured Xserve I can recommend a server for the plant from Dell that has dual processors, raid 5, tape backup, Microsoft Small Business Server which provides us with SQL and MS Exchange so our IT guy can easily run the show and migrate over from Access in about 6 or 9 months. Plus for less money than the Xserve they will also recieve 4 hour on site response 24X7X365.

They can't fire the IT guy and hire a new one because he is not Apple proficient because it would be illegal and getting another qualified person to drive all the way out to where the facility is located everyday would be absurd.

And try to find an integrated inventory control system with handeld RF scanners and smart barcode printers that has apple software as part of the package, and if you do I doubt it will be cheaper.

One of the production machines has a built in quality control system that operates with cameras, the catch to this wonderfull little machine is that it needs a PC not an a Mac sitting next to it 24X7.

All the computers in the company are already PCs and things work, putting the new equipment in place is going to help even more but why would they put in Apple, what is the benefit. I use a Mac and love it, but for business it is out of the question because its not cheaper, you have to buy new software if its available, you have to retrain employees. Its not better, if the business solutions arent out there and dont show a huge difference of costs savings at purchase time or with productivity a business won't buy them. The Company's primary motivation is to make money; how is Apple going to help companies make money?
 
Here's another reason: many if not most people don't keep up with Apple technology. As far as they're concerned, Apple hasn't hit 1GHz in anything. One friend of mine (who knew a week in advance that 3.4GHz P4's were coming out) still thinks the Flower Power iMac is the most up-to-date. There's not enough actual product advertising from Apple; the new PowerBook ad with Verne Troyer is the first one I've seen in months. All the rest have been switch ads. Most people I know have never even heard of the eMac, even IT guys. Here's the typical perception of Apple's lineup:

PowerMacs: 733MHz DA, not even QS. Most have no idea they've broken 1GHz. The only good part of this perception is that they do realize PMs have a DVD burner.

iMac: half the people know of the LCD iMac, and call it a lamp, and are also completely unaware of the superdrive or 17" LCD. The rest know only up to either the Blueberry/Strawberry/Grape/Lime/Tangerine iMac DV's, or possibly the Flower Power.

iBook: clamshell tangerine and blueberry, with only people who know someone who has another one knowing about any others.

Ti/AlBook: This is the only one people really know about and respect, if only for the screen size.

eMac: "A what-Mac?" You get the idea.

XServe: only IT people have heard of it. While they're impressed with certain features, they just write it off as "just another too-slow Mac. I mean, it doesn't even have DDR, or a UNIX OS." At this point, I quietly remind them that it does, to which I get a mumbled response. I agree, people don't like change.

iPod: this is the one thing they all, or almost all, know about. But they just say it's too expensive, or can't carry data, or can only hold half the songs of their other one with the same capacity. Apple needs to advertise more than 4000 songs, even if it means calling it a 3 minute song at 128kbps. That's what most manufacturers advertise at anyway. Or if they don't do that, they should make the fine print about a 4 minute song at 160kbps much larger.

Software: many if not most people have no idea OS X is a UNIX, if they know it exists at all. More than half the people I know think Office is Windows-only, and are shocked and amazed when I open Office v.X under OS X. Also, people, even IT people have no idea how much cheaper X or X Server is as compared to XP Home or Pro, especially when comparing unlimited-user licenses. After all, if MS makes you pay $X thousand a year, they figure Apple does too.

Speed: Nobody cares about AltiVec, all that matters is bus speed (for geeks) and processor speed (for everybody else). That 'everybody else' doesn't care about video cards, or network speed, or even, in most cases, RAM or HD space. A friend of mine just bought an HP with 128MB RAM, and a 40 GB HD, no video card (just integrated graphics) and a 10Base/T ethernet connection, all because it came with a free 15" CRT, and a free cheap printer (ink and paper not included), and was $1100 when all was said and done. They didn't even realize that it came with a DVD/CDRW. IMHO, it was a mistake for Apple to discontinue their CRT line. People just don't care about LCD vs. CRT, especially Joe Consumer. They care about price and freebees. Give em a free 15" monitor and printer, for less than $1200, and people will come flocking. The best way to do this, would be to much more heavily advertise the classic iMac, preferably with a better, possibly even x86, processor, and give away a printer with it. Also give it a Radeon for QE graphics, and it would sell like hotcakes.
 
Hmmmm

I'm switching soon (as the new 12" AlPB come out at the local Apple Store) but seriously considered XP vs OSX over the past couple of months. I've decided on Apple for a couple reasons, best laptops by far, intutive OS, and Iapps.

However, these are all personal choices for a personal machine that I want to manage my own life and limited needs on. If I was buying a machine for work I would have choosen a WinTel box.

Its clear that businesses will continue to use WinTel for a long time because of all the issues we have stated. I think iJon's point is compelling: many business use computers for automated, boring, backroom type tasks that it is simply not worthwhile to use a more expensive Mac for, whatever the benefits.

Apple does and will make money by targeting specific markets. In my opinion these should be consumers and high end creative types (graphic design, video/music editing, etc.)

The Mac now makes perfect sense for the home market. It is easy to use, does not crash, has just as good internet options (if not better) than WinTel, and is optimized for lifestyle applications like Iapps, which is what the majority of home users do. The lack of a huge gaming base is not important: consoles are the future of electronic gaming, not PCs. I think Mac should push aggresively into the home market. It should slash prices, offer free phone support for switchers, maybe a switching rebate, etc.

But its pointless for us to speculate what it would take to have a fortune 500 company switch to Mac, or even the local hardware store. Its not going to happen and these institutions do not need the features that make Mac more expensive (maybe they would switch in a perfect world, but like I said, its not going to happen.)

Computers are becoming a pervasive appliance that most homes use for limited variety of tasks: internet, email, word processing, music, basic digital photography, personal financial management, and gaming. Macs dominate most if not all of these markets. Use that. Become the respectable higher-end choice for the home market. Get every family that bought a Volvo in the late 80's early 90's and an imported SUV in the late 90s to realize they should be buying Mac.
 
Re: What are the top excuses by biz for not switching? Lack of software?

Originally posted by GeneR
What I am wondering is what makes PC users so resistent to switching to Apple.
Click to expand...

If I was able to do complete Novell server and Novell eDirectory administration from a mac, I would immediately try everything to persuade my employer to get me a 17" Powerbook.

BUT :-(

For example: The main tools to administer Novell eDirectory are the Netware Administrator and ConsoleOne. Both don't exist for the mac.

With the introduction of Netware 6 they moved a lot of administration tools into webfrontends, but it's far from complete and I need an environment to access the old tools as well because not every client where I come has upgraded to Netware 6 yet.

:cool:

<edit>
Note that I own a dual 800Mhz Quicksilver at my home audio studio, because I just can't be creative on a windows machine. 12 years of doing audio on a Mac and I love it.
 
Software, software, software

I have a small business and have been debating for the last year whether I should switch to a PC, I have been on Macs since 1987.

Software would be the reason. For example.

- Act, Goldmine etc. don't exist for mac (though I have found some sales management software)
- Often docs that I make in word get screwed up when my clients open them on their PC.
- Web sites, a lot of web sites require you to download a small piece of software that is always PC only - example HP's photo site. Web trends live which I use for clients won't let me download a word doc version of the reports without putting a piece of PC only software on my machine.

But here is the good news, after a year of researching ugly heavy black box lPC lap tops, I can't bring myself to get one of the horrid things, not to mention that in one week about 3 or 4 clients couldn't use their email because viruses had wrecked their machines.

I am going to use Virtual PC for some stuff or eventually get a cheap PC to do some stuff but will stay on a mac - next machine Powerbook 12 inch with 19 inch Viewsonic flat pannel and an external wireless keyboard. Full desktop power at home and when it's time to go, stuff the little silver gem in my back back and hop on a plane and watch a DVD movie next to the poor guy with is 9 pound Dell brick!

Macdiehard, that's my name.
 
Re: Software, software, software

Originally posted by macdiehard
I have a small business and have been debating for the last year whether I should switch to a PC, I have been on Macs since 1987.

Software would be the reason. For example.

- Act, Goldmine etc. don't exist for mac (though I have found some sales management software)
- Often docs that I make in word get screwed up when my clients open them on their PC.
- Web sites, a lot of web sites require you to download a small piece of software that is always PC only - example HP's photo site. Web trends live which I use for clients won't let me download a word doc version of the reports without putting a piece of PC only software on my machine.

But here is the good news, after a year of researching ugly heavy black box lPC lap tops, I can't bring myself to get one of the horrid things, not to mention that in one week about 3 or 4 clients couldn't use their email because viruses had wrecked their machines.

I am going to use Virtual PC for some stuff or eventually get a cheap PC to do some stuff but will stay on a mac - next machine Powerbook 12 inch with 19 inch Viewsonic flat pannel and an external wireless keyboard. Full desktop power at home and when it's time to go, stuff the little silver gem in my back back and hop on a plane and watch a DVD movie next to the poor guy with is 9 pound Dell brick!

Macdiehard, that's my name.
Click to expand...
thats a great idea. i would just buy a cheap dell or something, and just run the necassary software becasue virtual pc isnt all that great.

iJon
 
I belive its price, if your already using pc's then your running all your windows software etc, when you switch to a mac based biz your buying all the new hardware plus have to buy and learn new software, that's probably the biggest reason I would say.
 
I also believe it is price. Apple makes great computers and the price is well worth it for most people. However, as far as business goes I think they offer more off what a business doesn't need and less of what it does. Sure the iApps are great but until Apple offers a stripped down version of a computer with just basic office apps and a much lower cost most business are going to go for the cheap dells.
 
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