MP 1,1-5,1 What defines a “metal” graphics card?

[CaliforniaDreamin]

I’ve got a newly acquired cMP 5,1 that’s a nice machine. I’d like to get it to run Mojave and Catalina. My understanding is that I need a metal graphics card for that.

Can any of you help explain the difference in a metal graphics card and other cards? What are some good brands and models I can use with the 5,1 and not have to break the bank?

 

[Drak3]

It's just a graphics card that can support Apple's Metal API. Any AMD Polaris or Vega card should work. Sapphire is a good brand that has had a good track record with compatibility.

 

[bsbeamer]

This thread lists many GPUs with metal compatibility:

GPU Compatibility List for cMP

Content: 1. Summary 2. Information on common GPUs that can be used in cMP 3. GPU power consumption 4. Color compatibility 5. Flashing nuances 6. What to choose? 7. Useful links. 1. Summary 1.1. There are 50+ GPU types that are compatible with cMP (classic MacPro = Mac Pro 1.1-5.1/...

forums.macrumors.com

The recommendations from Apple are what the majority of people should stick with:

Install macOS 10.14 Mojave on Mac Pro (Mid 2010) and Mac Pro (Mid 2012) - Apple Support

Learn how to prepare your Mac Pro (Mid 2010) or Mac Pro (Mid 2012) for macOS Mojave.

support.apple.com

These specific third-party graphics cards are Metal-capable and compatible with macOS Mojave on Mac Pro (Mid 2010) and Mac Pro (Mid 2012):

• MSI Gaming Radeon RX 560 128-bit 4GB GDRR5
• SAPPHIRE Radeon PULSE RX 580 8GB GDDR5
• SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7950 Mac Edition
• NVIDIA Quadro K5000 for Mac
• NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 Mac Edition

As for Catalina, it's not officially supported for MP5,1. Would hold off for at least a few more releases before messing with hacks/workarounds to get it to work.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Thanks for the responses. I’d seen that article a few days ago. One question I have after reading it is for the “might work” cards, how often don’t these work and why?

What’s the lowest price I can get a metal-capable card for considering I’m not a gamer and don’t do heavy rendering? I’d be doing the upgrade pretty much for Mojave/Catalina and also better graphics overall.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Just got a MSI Gaming Radeon RX 560 128-bit 4GB GDRR5 for $98. Will this card get rid of the Apple boot screen? Is there a way around that?

 

[tsialex]

Just got a MSI Gaming Radeon RX 560 128-bit 4GB GDRR5 for $98. Will this card get rid of the Apple boot screen?

Yes, RX 560 have GOP pre-boot configuration support, while MP5,1 needs UGA. So, no boot-screens.

Is there a way around that?

No. Use SystemPreferences/StartUp Disk to change the bootable disk from macOS.

 

[bsbeamer]

No boot screen for standard off the shelf GPUs. You’d need one of the official options that offer (like GTX 680 Mac Edition). Or you can flash a used one. Or you can buy a hacked/flashed version from 3rd party. The link to GPU on this forum has all of that information.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

No. Use SystemPreferences/StartUp Disk to change the bootable disk from macOS.

Thanks. This will bring back the Apple boot screen?

 

[bsbeamer]

No, but it’s an almost perfect and acceptable workaround for most use cases. There are entire threads about other methods. The boot screen is almost not needed at all for most people. Recovery still works with approved GPUs.

 

[tsialex]

Thanks. This will bring back the Apple boot screen?

No nothing can bring it back, unless you buy a MVC flashed card, different protocols like I explained before.

Use the StartUp disk from macOS to select a bootable drive as a workaround.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Thanks, tsialex and bsbeamer.

I would do this at times where I wanted the Apple boot screen? Or is this done upon installing the GPU? Sorry if I’m slow to understand this.

 

[tsialex]

Thanks, tsialex and bsbeamer.

I would do this at times where I wanted the Apple boot screen? Or is this done upon installing the GPU? Sorry if I’m slow to understand this.

A GPU that don't have pre-boot configuration support, read it, only works after macOS GPU drivers are loaded by macOS. Until then, GPU is not working and your display will be off:

Nothing of this list will work with a PC GPU:

• Single user support*,
• EFI shell support*,
• Verbose boot,
• Startup Manager, the new name for the BootPicker/BootSelector,
• FileVault support** (for macOS versions before Mojave),
• GPU OK backplane diagnostic LED when the GPU is an Apple OEM GPU,
• AHT and ASD support.

* Single user and the EFI shell can be used blindly with a card that don’t have pre-boot configuration support, but it’s extremely difficult to use it this way.

** You can type your FileVault password blindly, some people using macOS versions before Mojave do it without much trouble.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Ok, I’m following more now. The GPU won’t work at all until I select a different boot, and I’ll never get the Apple boot screen with this card.

So, is it worth the extra investment to get a Mac edition?

 

[tsialex]

Ok, I’m following more now. The GPU won’t work at all until I select a different boot, and I’ll never get the Apple boot screen with this card.

You still don't understand. A PC GPU won't work until half-way macOS is loaded. You only will get a display after the GPU drivers are loaded by macOS. You can't select a disk with BootPicker/Selector when using a PC GPU.

So, is it worth the extra investment to get a Mac edition?

Only you can answer that. For most people the answer is no.

 

[h9826790]

A GPU that don't have pre-boot configuration support, read it, only works after macOS GPU drivers are loaded by macOS. Until then, GPU is not working and your display will be off:

Nothing of this list will work with a PC GPU:

• Single user support,
• Verbose boot,
• Startup Manager, the new name for the BootPicker/BootSelector,
• FileVault support (for macOS versions before Mojave),
• EFI shell support,
• GPU OK backplane diagnostic LED when the GPU is an Apple OEM GPU,
• AHT and ASD support.

I believe the Single User mode actually can run in blind.

When I was using 1080Ti, I occasionally Single User Recovery Partition to disable SIP in blind.

So, unlike the other 6 functions. Single User mode isn't completely doesn't work. However, unable to see the return will greatly limit its usefulness.

 

[tsialex]

I believe the Single User mode actually can run in blind.

When I was using 1080Ti, I occasionally Single User Recovery Partition to disable SIP in blind.

So, unlike the other 6 functions. Single User mode isn't completely doesn't work. However, unable to see the return will greatly limit its usefulness.

Yes, single user mode can be accessed blindly and like you said, it’s extremely difficult to use it this way. I’ll add that you can use it blindly.

 

[crjackson2134]

@CaliforniaDreamin

If no one here minds, I will try to explain this so that you may understand....

With a PC type METAL card like the RX580 it works something like this....

1) You press the power button and wait for the Chime...

2) macOS starts to load, but you see nothing but a black screen. The OS is loading but there is no video output just yet. That generally takes 30 - 90 seconds depending on other hardware in your system.

3) As the OS is loading, it reaches a point where it starts loading the video card (GPU) drivers, then suddenly a signal is sent to the screen, and you see the Apple LOGO and a loading Progress Bar

4) Once loading is finished, you see the login screen, or the full desktop (depending on how you have previously configured the login settings).

5) You navigate into the Settings Menus, and select the Icon for “Startup Disk”.

6) Startup Disk will show you all the boot drives in your system (see @tsialex post# 10) and you can change drives from there. You will select the drive you want to boot next, and when you restart/reboot, it will boot the drive you have selected and/or changed to.

I hope this helps...

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

@CaliforniaDreamin

If no one here minds, I will try to explain this so that you may understand....

With a PC type METAL card like the RX580 it works something like this....

1) You press the power button and wait for the Chime...

2) macOS starts to load, but you see nothing but a black screen. The OS is loading but there is no video output just yet. That generally takes 30 - 90 seconds depending on other hardware in your system.

3) As the OS is loading, it reaches a point where it starts loading the video card (GPU) drivers, then suddenly a signal is sent to the screen, and you see the Apple LOGO and a loading Progress Bar

4) Once loading is finished, you see the login screen, or the full desktop (depending on how you have previously configured the login settings).

5) You navigate into the Settings Menus, and select the Icon for “Startup Disk”.

6) Startup Disk will show you all the boot drives in your system (see @tsialex post# 10) and you can change drives from there. You will select the drive you want to boot next, and when you restart/reboot, it will boot the drive you have selected and/or changed to.

I hope this helps...

That helps a lot. I appreciate it. Thanks to the others for bearing with it, as I know it’s low-level compared to the knowledge most all of you have.

Does what you describe apply to the first time I boot the computer after installing the card, or every time? Honestly, if this is a regular thing and functions are inhibited by using a PC card, I’ll just pony up the extra hundred dollars to get a Mac-specific card.

All I’m looking for here is to operate Mojave then Catalina (when it’s good and ready), and have better overall display. No gaming or sophisticated video production needed. Seems like I’m sacrificing a lot with a PC card for what I’m looking for in benefit.

 

[tsialex]

That helps a lot. I appreciate it. Thanks to the others for bearing with it, as I know it’s low-level compared to the knowledge most all of you have.

Does what you describe apply to the first time I boot the computer after installing the card, or every time? Honestly, if this is a regular thing and functions are inhibited by using a PC card, I’ll just pony up the extra hundred dollars to get a Mac-specific card.

All I’m looking for here is to operate Mojave then Catalina (when it’s good and ready), and have better overall display. No gaming or sophisticated video production needed. Seems like I’m sacrificing a lot with a PC card for what I’m looking for in benefit.

Pre-boot configuration support depends on the GPU EFI support. A PC GPU don't have pre-boot configuration support while installed in a Mac Pro 5,1, PCs are GOP while MP5,1 is UGA.

So, you won't have pre-boot configuration support at all, while a PC GPU is the video card of your Mac Pro. Every boot will be black until the drivers are loaded halfway macOS are booting. Every time.

There are no more Mac Edition GPUs, you can buy a 2012-ish era overpriced used GPU that has pre-boot configuration support or buy a RX 580 modified by MacVidCards to have a Mac EFI, but it will cost 3,5x or more what you payed on your RX 560.

Apple blocked MP5,1 from running Catalina, it's officially unsupported, but relatively easy to make it work.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Pre-boot configuration support depends on the GPU EFI support. A PC GPU don't have pre-boot configuration support while installed in a Mac Pro 5,1, PCs are GOP while MP5,1 is UGA.

So, you won't have pre-boot configuration support at all, while a PC GPU is the video card of your Mac Pro. Every boot will be black until the drivers are loaded halfway macOS are booting. Every time.

There are no more Mac Edition GPUs, you can buy a 2012-ish era overpriced used GPU that has pre-boot configuration support or buy a RX 580 modified by MacVidCards to have a Mac EFI, but it will cost 3,5x or more what you payed on your RX 560.

Apple blocked MP5,1 from running Catalina, it's officially unsupported, but relatively easy to make it work.

Thank you for the clarification. I can get a used Mac edition Nvidia Geforce GTX 680 for $200. With this solve all my issues and be relatively plug and play aside from the dosdude1 patch?

 

[tsialex]

A GTX 680 is 2012 GPU, your RX 560 will run around it several times, but yes.

You shouldn't use a patched macOS install without knowing the problems of it, for example, every time Apple releases an update you will have to re-install Catalina over the previous install or you will running code that you don't know the provenance. Don't use patched installs before fully knowing the benefits and trade-offs.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

A GTX 680 is 2012 GPU, your RX 560 will run around it several times, but yes.

You shouldn't use a patched macOS install without knowing the problems of it, for example, every time Apple releases an update you will have to re-install Catalina over the previous install or you will running code that you don't know the provenance. Don't use patched installs before fully knowing the benefits and trade-offs.

Do you think the GTX 680 is good enough for my purposes stated? I currently have a standard Radeon 1GB card in there so it will be an improvement over that plus the usability in the two OS following High Sierra.

By patched OS install you mean ones in machines not explicitly supported? Is Mojave in the same boat as Catalina in that regard for the 5,1?

 

[tsialex]

Do you think the GTX 680 is good enough for my purposes stated? I currently have a standard Radeon 1GB card in there so it will be an improvement over that plus the usability in the two OS following High Sierra.

Only you can answer that. GTX 680 only costs $200 today because some people thinks that pre-boot configuration support is something that is terrible needed. It's a seven year old used GPU that uses a lot of power…

By patched OS install you mean ones in machines not explicitly supported? Is Mojave in the same boat as Catalina in that regard for the 5,1?

Mojave is officially supported with a MP5,1 with a METAL supported GPU. Catalina don't support MP5,1.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Only you can answer that. GTX 680 only costs $200 today because some people thinks that pre-boot configuration support is something that is terrible needed. It's a seven year old used GPU that uses a lot of power…

Knowing my situation and needs, do you have a better suggestion?

 

[tsialex]

Knowing my situation and needs, do you have a better suggestion?

Stick to the RX 560, or go for a MVC RX 580 if you really think that you can't live without pre-boot configuration support.

You can also try to find locally an eVGA GTX 680 and flash it yourself, sometimes you can find it for around $80 or less. Power consumption still a problem, but $80 is a lot more palatable for a GPU that can fail anytime.

Step-by-Step Instructions for Flashing GTX680

Confirmed and Possible Flashable GTX680 Models

BTW, you should learn to use the search, everything that you asked is already answered in detail, some things several times. Read the sticky threads, they are sticky because all the answers are there for the topics in question.