The Sweet Sound of an i7 Getting Busy
A famous space marine once said, "Yeah man, but it's a dry heat!"
A famous space marine once said, "Yeah man, but it's a dry heat!"
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What do I have to know about the Mac mini 2011/12 before buying?
- Thread starter Cox Orange
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I wonder, if there is one "quiet" i7 under the available ones...
It is also interesting, when you use the compare-option on everymac.com, to see how 4core i7 disappeared for 2014, I guess they (Apple) are saving money were they can..
2011 i7 2x 2,7
i7 4x 2,0
2012 i7 4x 2,3
i7 4x 2,6
2014 i7 2x 3,0
Also, if you compare the Geekbench results of the several i7s for SC and MC usage in Detail.
It is also interesting, when you use the compare-option on everymac.com, to see how 4core i7 disappeared for 2014, I guess they (Apple) are saving money were they can..
2011 i7 2x 2,7
i7 4x 2,0
2012 i7 4x 2,3
i7 4x 2,6
2014 i7 2x 3,0
Also, if you compare the Geekbench results of the several i7s for SC and MC usage in Detail.
UPDATE:
I now had the chance to test my new mac mini 2010, 2,4GHz 500GB SSD.
I am surprised that with the SSD folders open with the same speed as my ibook G4 with 320GB 5400rpm HDD. I thought SSDs were super responsive, but here I have to wait 1sec (i.e. I can say "1mississipi").
Is that maybe due to running OS 10.10 (Yosemite) on this C2D machine?
The SSD is a Samsung evo 840 with firmware update. (Actually I wonder, why almost everyone chooses this model line).
I now had the chance to test my new mac mini 2010, 2,4GHz 500GB SSD.
I am surprised that with the SSD folders open with the same speed as my ibook G4 with 320GB 5400rpm HDD. I thought SSDs were super responsive, but here I have to wait 1sec (i.e. I can say "1mississipi").
Is that maybe due to running OS 10.10 (Yosemite) on this C2D machine?
The SSD is a Samsung evo 840 with firmware update. (Actually I wonder, why almost everyone chooses this model line).
SSD's are every bit as great as people make them out to be, and they are miracle workers, but even they have limitations. At a certain point, it's not the SSD that's the system bottleneck, it's some other component. I lost track of how much RAM you have, but I assume it's at least 4GB. The Core 2 is slow at this point. Even the base 2014 1.4GHz mini is nearly twice as fast. Yosemite takes a lot resources. Keep in mind that you can't compare it to your G4 iBook since it's running at most Leopard.
Of course, there could be something else wrong with the system that's slowing it down - I'd suggest running Geekbench to see how it compares.
At the time of its release, the Samsung Evo 840 was pretty much the perfect balance of performance, price and reliability and was universally recommended by tech reviewers.
Guys,
Do you really do not recommend at all buying a new mac mini with fusion?
Reading here it seems more convenient going for a 2012, can I ask you why?
i was thinking mainly for watching movies and this kind of stuff, so having a better graphic i though it would have been better.
Should i care so much about the dual core processor if I mainly intend to use as a desktop machine and not for power-requiring tasks?
I am really ignorant in terms of mac mini. I'd rely more on your opinions since I can read you are very informed on this machine.
Do you really do not recommend at all buying a new mac mini with fusion?
Reading here it seems more convenient going for a 2012, can I ask you why?
i was thinking mainly for watching movies and this kind of stuff, so having a better graphic i though it would have been better.
Should i care so much about the dual core processor if I mainly intend to use as a desktop machine and not for power-requiring tasks?
I am really ignorant in terms of mac mini. I'd rely more on your opinions since I can read you are very informed on this machine.
I did guess, that it perhaps is due to 10.10 demanding to much in combination with the rather outdated C2D CPU. I also just ran 10.10, because it was already installed and I wanted to discover the machine, before I set up my own Install (I will be using 10.9 at best anyway, an upgrade my Logic9 or I will stay at 10.8 and Logic8. 10.10 doesn't work with my interface at the moment, since the manufacturer is still updating things).
I got a good offer for a 2012 Mini, now, so I think will be selling the 2010 one. What I have to get clear about in my head is what I do SSD-wise. The big space of 500GB is nice to have and an SSD can't hurt. So my option is, keep the 500GB SSD and sell the 2010 Mini with a HDD, that I have (I will still get the whole price back) and then put the 500GB SSD in the 2012 Mini (that comes with a 120GB retail SSD btw.). Or if I avoid the hazzle of having to tinker on two Macs and just sell the 2010 as is and only get a bigger SSD for the 2012 one and only have to tinker with that one machine.
Totally different question: are Macs that come with socket P-type C2D CPUs (Minis and MacBooks) upgradable, CPU-wise? I mean, they are p-socket CPUs, but maybe Apple did solder them, though.
EDIT: MacMinis before the 2009 model have upgradable CPUs.
In case you wonder:
Core 2 Duo = name for an old model of Intels CPUs (just like the new ones are called core-i3/5/7)
DualCore = just means the number of cores of a CPU
===> we didn't mean to say, that a DualCore CPU is not good.
What I was making a fuzz about, was connectivity. That is the whole story. I need Firewire and all new Macs come without a Firewire-port, they have only thunderbolt and USB3. The 2012 marks an intermediate stadium, where it had USB3, Firewire800 and Thunderbolt (1Gb/s). The 2014 has 2 Thunderbolt ports of 2Gb/s (though it could be, that the 2Gb/s are shared over the two ports, if two are used at the same time.
The thing with the numbers of cores might have confused you. The Core-2-Duo Mac Mini from 2010 is slower (Geekbench 3600 points). But the Dual Core i5 CPU used in both the 2012 and the 2014 Mac Mini is a completely knew generation of CPUs and will be faster anyway (about 6000-8000 depending on clock speed, i7-quadcores reach up to 11000).
If you plan to have the mini running all day, things like power consumption might be taken into account (but one wouldn't use a Mini for that, if he doesn't have to have Mac OS, anyway). The question will be, though, if the higher buying price of a 2014 Mini will make up with the power bill saved, in comparison to the 2012 Mini.
Fusion does have nothing to do with ports. It is a HDD that uses an SSD as some sort of faster RAM (some sort of a new way of the old idea of a RAM-Disk). I had read about issues with that, a seperated HDD and SSD is more reliable/stable than the HDD+SSD bound together to a Fusion-Drive (could be they solved it in the meantime).
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thanks,
You're right I confused with the Dual-core and the core-duo definitions.
Thanks for the insight!
Did you have certain reasons to purchase Intel SSDs over the popular Samsung Evo 840?
May I ask, do you hear the fan on the 4x2,3GHz i7 noticably? I hear a lot of people say i7 Mac Minis are especially loud. Now in the meantime I akse din an audio-recording forum and a video-guy.
The video-guy with a 4x2,3GHz i7 said, he only hears it under load and then it is more like hearing a harddrive, not like a laptop fan kicking in from time to time.
The audio guys said: while recoding they don't hear them, only when calculating effect or something and even then it is more like having soem HDDs hooked up and not like fans, also it kicks in for a shorter while and then gets quiet again (2011 Mini 4x2,0GHz i7).
I could bite my arse. I did fear the noise and missed a killer deal. A 2012 Mini with 4x2,3GHz i7 (server model), with 8GB RAM and 2x1TB HDD for 485,-EUR. (Yesterday an i5 2012 Mini went for 358,-EUR and my browser didn't load the page fast enough after I had set my bid... such a PITA).
I wonder though, if this might be only for the lower frequency i7s, since another member (one page before in this thread here) said his 4x2,6GHz i7 was very loud.
I have the 2010 Mini and will keep it as long till I get a 2012 Mini i5 2,5GHz or i7 2,3GHz for a low price, now. (I wonder though, if for applications that use only two cores, if the 2,5GHz i5 might be superior and quieter than the 2,3GHz i7).
Did you have certain reasons to purchase Intel SSDs over the popular Samsung Evo 840?
May I ask, do you hear the fan on the 4x2,3GHz i7 noticably? I hear a lot of people say i7 Mac Minis are especially loud. Now in the meantime I akse din an audio-recording forum and a video-guy.
The video-guy with a 4x2,3GHz i7 said, he only hears it under load and then it is more like hearing a harddrive, not like a laptop fan kicking in from time to time.
The audio guys said: while recoding they don't hear them, only when calculating effect or something and even then it is more like having soem HDDs hooked up and not like fans, also it kicks in for a shorter while and then gets quiet again (2011 Mini 4x2,0GHz i7).
I could bite my arse. I did fear the noise and missed a killer deal. A 2012 Mini with 4x2,3GHz i7 (server model), with 8GB RAM and 2x1TB HDD for 485,-EUR. (Yesterday an i5 2012 Mini went for 358,-EUR and my browser didn't load the page fast enough after I had set my bid... such a PITA).
I wonder though, if this might be only for the lower frequency i7s, since another member (one page before in this thread here) said his 4x2,6GHz i7 was very loud.
I have the 2010 Mini and will keep it as long till I get a 2012 Mini i5 2,5GHz or i7 2,3GHz for a low price, now. (I wonder though, if for applications that use only two cores, if the 2,5GHz i5 might be superior and quieter than the 2,3GHz i7).
Noise? What Noise?
This is the Internet. A "a lot of people say" a lot of crazy things. The Macrumors forums are a fine source of information if you can separate the nuggets of truth from the hysterical ranting. This noise everyone talks about is a low level whisper. The only reason the sound is noteworthy at all is because these remarkable machines are normally stone quiet! It is not reasonable with present technology to expect a high performance CPU like the i7 to perform demanding multi-core work without generating heat.
You are correct when you admit to being duped by this noise nonsense "I did fear the noise and missed a killer deal."
Don't fear that sound, embrace it!
This is the Internet. A "a lot of people say" a lot of crazy things. The Macrumors forums are a fine source of information if you can separate the nuggets of truth from the hysterical ranting. This noise everyone talks about is a low level whisper. The only reason the sound is noteworthy at all is because these remarkable machines are normally stone quiet! It is not reasonable with present technology to expect a high performance CPU like the i7 to perform demanding multi-core work without generating heat.
You are correct when you admit to being duped by this noise nonsense "I did fear the noise and missed a killer deal."
Don't fear that sound, embrace it!
The comments on i7 fan noise were made only with respect to the 2.6 version, and even there some owners disagreed about noise and heat being an issue.
Just one person's experience, but I have the 2012 2.3 quad mini with a SSD which I use to record with Logic.
I can't hear it at all.
Sometimes I think I hear it, but then I realize I'm actually hearing my USB drives ramping up for a backup session. Having a silent computer was very important to me and I've been impressed with this mini.
I can't hear it at all.
Sometimes I think I hear it, but then I realize I'm actually hearing my USB drives ramping up for a backup session. Having a silent computer was very important to me and I've been impressed with this mini.
Is The Hot Running 2.6 i7 Mac mini a Myth?
They certainly do disagree. In fact, searches yield very little support for the "hot running 2.6 i7 mini" theory. There is a consensus that the ability of an i7 processor to perform more work is linked to the production of more heat. This fact is reflected in the difference between the heat ratings of the mini's i5 and i7 CPU offerings.
Think about this fact. Although the Thermal Design Power (TDP) rating for the i5 is 35 watts, the two i7 offerings share a 45 watt rating. I can't understand why the two i7 processors would react differently to similar loads. From the numbers, I expect a 2.6 to be capable of about 10% more work than my 2.3 under optimum conditions.
During a search this morning, I found several instances where users asked if the 2.6 ran hotter and/or noisier than the 2.3. I found no conclusive evidence to confirm that the 2.6 has any disadvantage!
Why do people keep repeating this claim? Have I missed something or is this whole thing a myth that is based on supposition?
Yahoo & Google search results:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4537437
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1532653/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1650272/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1499299/
https://www.gearspace.com/board/music-computers/849797-mac-mini-noise-level.html
They certainly do disagree. In fact, searches yield very little support for the "hot running 2.6 i7 mini" theory. There is a consensus that the ability of an i7 processor to perform more work is linked to the production of more heat. This fact is reflected in the difference between the heat ratings of the mini's i5 and i7 CPU offerings.
Think about this fact. Although the Thermal Design Power (TDP) rating for the i5 is 35 watts, the two i7 offerings share a 45 watt rating. I can't understand why the two i7 processors would react differently to similar loads. From the numbers, I expect a 2.6 to be capable of about 10% more work than my 2.3 under optimum conditions.
During a search this morning, I found several instances where users asked if the 2.6 ran hotter and/or noisier than the 2.3. I found no conclusive evidence to confirm that the 2.6 has any disadvantage!
Why do people keep repeating this claim? Have I missed something or is this whole thing a myth that is based on supposition?
Yahoo & Google search results:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4537437
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1532653/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1650272/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1499299/
https://www.gearspace.com/board/music-computers/849797-mac-mini-noise-level.html
Exactly my point, I am skeptical about "facts" that are founded on questionable or missing data.
Yes, "optimum conditions" is not really what I meant at all. I should have been more clear. What I meant to convey was the idea that the 2.6 should be capable of more work under a range of conditions. Thought such conditions are not necessarily optimum or ideal, more trying conditions could conceivably negate the clock speed advantage of the faster chip by prompting performance limiting measures.
Do you believe that the 2.3 runs cooler in general than the 2.6? From this comment "a 2.6 under load will reach a certain temperature sooner than a 2.3" it seems that you do. Where did this fact come from? That is the crux of my issue with this claim. I see threads where people pose the question but I don't see any proof either way.
The apparent lack of evidence to support this common claim is intriguing to me. I wonder, have my searches been flawed or limited in some way? Perhaps there is data that some of us have interpreted differently. Either way, lacking proof I see this claim as a hypothesis rather than a solid factor that consumers should consider when shopping.
Thanks to all of you. I just scanned, what you wrote and will read in detail later.
My plan now is:
get 2012 i5 2,5GHz or i7 2,3GHz (still not sure about the 2,6GHz model)
or if extremely cheap a 2011 i7 (they often come with lots of HDD space or SSDs and 16GB RAM)
(there are some cheaper or similar (to 2012) in price 2014 offers sometimes, but it looks as my audio hardware isn't compatible with 10.10, I would have to test this first and I would also only want to go for it, if it has the maxed out 16GB RAM. On the other hand, when the RAM gets faulty over time, I will be "doomed").
My plan now is:
get 2012 i5 2,5GHz or i7 2,3GHz (still not sure about the 2,6GHz model)
or if extremely cheap a 2011 i7 (they often come with lots of HDD space or SSDs and 16GB RAM)
(there are some cheaper or similar (to 2012) in price 2014 offers sometimes, but it looks as my audio hardware isn't compatible with 10.10, I would have to test this first and I would also only want to go for it, if it has the maxed out 16GB RAM. On the other hand, when the RAM gets faulty over time, I will be "doomed").
I see that a thunderbolt to usb3 adapter goes for over 100,- used, in auctions. (They had ThB nad dvi/hdmi too, not alone usb3, so maybe they are cheaper when they only have usb3 on the adapter), but that makes it uneconomical... I think.
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To all, there has been more useful info, then I cite here. Thank you very much, I just want you to know, that I really apreciate it and when I don't cite everything or comment everything, it doesn't mean it wasn't important to me or I would disagree. I just want to keep my responses in a readable size.
I wouldn't have gone with the then more expensive form factor 1,8" and mSATA, if I wouldn't have needed to, because of the ibook. In the meantime I learned that 1,8" SSDs run hotter than 2,5" ones. So my plan to reuse them in my Mac Mini as a second drive will gave to be cancled I think. Though I could still use them externally and bind them into the audio eco-system. (also with the faster ports, I wonder, if putting the drives inside is a need anyway. Well, at least it saves some desk space, which is fine, though )
Well, now I have an additional choice, when searching for SSDs, Samsung and Intel. (it was said though that GC was inferior on Samsungs vs the Crucial, hence I didn't go with the popular Evo840 back then.)
- Yes, for that price I should have just tried it (given that I would have not lost anything, given that they go for 600-800 normally. Though I have seen two fully upgraded i7 2,7GHz 2011 units for 510-570, but these are singular events, too).
- Well, I can't set up the audio equipment all the time and test on several flavours of Minis that would consume a lot of time. (OK, I could do one install and test via external SSD, if that is accurate, though).
RE: the SSD topic and selling my 2010 again.
- when I will sell my 2010 Mini, I am considering to keep the 500GB Samsung evo 840 SSD and put in a 640GB HDD I have here. 2010 Minis go at an average of 350-450,- (this type SSD goes for 150-170,-). I wonder, if I save me the hazzle of opening the Mini and just sell the SSD with it and get a (possibly then newer) used SSD.
I am trying to find out the age by its serial number, but I can't find the warranty check for Samsung SSDs.
That is good info and it fits to the experience from other logic users in the logicuser-forum I went to. Also I assume, that the fans only kick in when needed and don't run at a very low, whispering speed all the time, if you can't hear them, right?
Also, thanks for searching for me.
- GC was the reason I bought two Crucial M4 256GB SSDs (1,8" mSATA, because I also tested them via adapter in an IDE-ibook G4). [the price for used Crucial 1,8" M4 has dropped from 120 to 60, in a year, while the price for Samsung SSDs stayed the same]. It was said, that though slower, it has the best GC on the market. At the time my knowledge was, that TRIM didn't work on thrid party SSDs under OS X. In the meantime I learned that now you can activate it by changing a kext or even with a little app.
I wouldn't have gone with the then more expensive form factor 1,8" and mSATA, if I wouldn't have needed to, because of the ibook. In the meantime I learned that 1,8" SSDs run hotter than 2,5" ones. So my plan to reuse them in my Mac Mini as a second drive will gave to be cancled I think. Though I could still use them externally and bind them into the audio eco-system. (also with the faster ports, I wonder, if putting the drives inside is a need anyway. Well, at least it saves some desk space, which is fine, though
)Well, now I have an additional choice, when searching for SSDs, Samsung and Intel. (it was said though that GC was inferior on Samsungs vs the Crucial, hence I didn't go with the popular Evo840 back then.)
- Yes, for that price I should have just tried it (given that I would have not lost anything, given that they go for 600-800 normally. Though I have seen two fully upgraded i7 2,7GHz 2011 units for 510-570, but these are singular events, too).
- Well, I can't set up the audio equipment all the time and test on several flavours of Minis
that would consume a lot of time. (OK, I could do one install and test via external SSD, if that is accurate, though).RE: the SSD topic and selling my 2010 again.
- when I will sell my 2010 Mini, I am considering to keep the 500GB Samsung evo 840 SSD and put in a 640GB HDD I have here. 2010 Minis go at an average of 350-450,- (this type SSD goes for 150-170,-). I wonder, if I save me the hazzle of opening the Mini and just sell the SSD with it and get a (possibly then newer) used SSD.
I am trying to find out the age by its serial number, but I can't find the warranty check for Samsung SSDs.
Nope. When the mini is awake the fan is running. Unless things have changed on the newest model, the fan on a recent Mac mini runs at 1800 rpm until the temperature rises above a certain level. The fan is inaudible at 1800 rpm. The quiet 5400 rpm HDD may make more noise than the idling fan but I never hear either. The HDD in my Seagate GoFlex Home, desktop external HDD, and optical disk drive all make much more noise than the Mac mini.
As I recall, the programmed fan threshold temperature is 85°C. Up to 70°C or even 80°C the fan will stay at 1800. That is why some folks report using minis for years without ever hearing the fan.
I am actually still tempted by some 2011 Minis, but an adapter seems to cost 100,-EUR used. That negates the price difference to zero, it makes it even more expensive than a 2014 i5 2,6GHz (or some rare 2012 i7).
I come back to this, because in another forum (similar to others here9 someone said, he had handbrake with CPU load at max and he didn't notice the fan, only a small whispering. Maybe there is something wrong with your Mini. If you still have some sort of warranty, you might let that check?!? (Also, I suppose it is not possible to reapply thermal compound as in i/PowerBooks and PowerMacs, where Apple sometimes had put not enough thermal grease on it.
Was the machine of a friend of mine. He got rid of it and went for a MP. My own 2012 quad 2.3 and 2011 dual 2.3 (luckily) are fine.
I think I once saw an iFixit guide about doing that on a mini. Looking at the thermal paste related problems with rMBP and Retina iMac, you might be right that this may have been the root cause. However, Apple is infamous for applying too much thermal paste rather than too little
They sell the Kanex for 95,-EUR new. Strange enough, at the same price used on Ebay. I wonder, if no one compares prices these days anymore...
On the 1,8" SSD. Yes more space around it, is a good argument, but then again I wonder, if that doesn't build up some pillow of hot air inside, which can make it worse.?. I don't know, just thinking something...
There is a good deal for a 2014 i7 with 512GB SSD, 16GB RAM including mouse+keys+trackpad for 800,-, but in the description it says 2,3GHz i7 with Intel Iris 5100. So either 2014 and Iris is wrong or 2,3GHz. But maybe not a good idea to buy that, if the seller called me stupid and asked what the hell my problem is, when I asked, if it is the 2012 2,3GHz i7 or the 3GHz 2014 i7, because another one doesn't exist. After some debating he said, that I don't find it doesn't mean something, on can always configure that in the Applestore, when ordering. Well... no. I think.
(Also the 2014 only is an option, once I have tested, if my audio interface will work with 10.10, though. Also, this only is an option for me, because it seems so cheap and already has the soldered RAM maxed out).