What Files App Should Be

[Relax.wealthy.enchant]

Hey guys and gals,

Wanted to get a thread going dedicated to the new Files app — and specifically what could be improved.

A short blurb on what I personally think

So there are two things here: the service (or “cloud”) and the client app. Let’s talk about the service first.

The Service

While everyone seems to be over-engineering their cloud services, Dropbox’s concept is the most straight forward to me. It’s just a folder that syncs with the cloud. That’s it. There is zero learning curve in using it or mental burden. There are no hidden files you have no idea exist.

An indicator shows you if something is synced locally or with the cloud. It’s dead easy to throw your files into it, and it integrates beautifully with everything from 1Password, iA Writer, and other iOS apps I happen to use. It’s just as easy to export stuff out of it, as it is to import stuff into it.

In short, this is what I wish iCloud was.

Instead, we have two distinct (but not really?) things: iCloud and iCloud Drive, and I don’t know where one stops and the other begins. Apps you use sync via iCloud, but files you make in apps are (maybe?) saved in iCloud Drive. iOS saves a bunch of stuff in iCloud (but not iCloud Drive) like certain preferences or your iOS backups. Confused yet?

It does the same for MacOS - iCloud Drive now syncs your Desktop and Documents folders, (and apparently now your iMessages) but iCloud still syncs random settings like your custom keyboard shortcuts, and there is no way to get at that at all. You can delete some things in preferences → iCloud through some arcane dialogue box in bulk, but you can’t see individual files. Still confused?

Just give me a single root folder where I have access to and complete control over ALL my data, with a few pre-defined subfolders for things like “Documents”, “OS Settings”, or “iOS Backups”. Don’t make me weed through 4 different places in iOS settings and dialogues to get at it.

Bitching aside, Apple is at least finally giving us a way to control what’s in iCloud, which used to be just a blackbox, and making it more transparent. It’s not quite as straight-forward as Dropbox but it’s a step in the right direction. Though, at this glacial pace, I’ll be 90 before they make a straightforward easy-to-use cloud service.

The Client

This is where I will throw endless compliments at Readlle’s Documents app. While it doesn’t look terribly “iOSy”, it’s a superb file manager that does almost everything: gives you a local storage root folder you can save and export things out of easily, it integrates with everything via the iOS sharing sheet, it works seamlessly with Dropbox, Google Drive.

Within its sandbox, you can do everything from copying, duplicating, deleting, previewing, zipping even editing your files of many different supported types. It lets you download from Safari. It let’s you listen to MP3s and work with PDFs. It makes you omelettes and gives you back massages. It truly gives the iPad Pro a “Pro”-ness. Want to edit a Markdown file? Go for it.

This is what I wish the new Files app was.

Instead, the new Files app is a really raw, terribly basic, and poorly designed substitute. For one, it by design pushes you to upload everything into iCloud Drive. The local storage option is not even visible when you launch it.

It took me a while to figure out that you have to drag something into the Files app to get it to even show the “On My iPad” folder which is hidden by default. This feels like an incredibly sleazy and user-hostile decision. Name a feature Document’s does, Files doesn’t do it.

It’s very poorly integrated with the rest of iOS. Importing or exporting files from/to other sources like Dropbox or Google Drive doesn’t even work — so not sure why it gives you the option to show them.

To be fair, it has the beginnings of a something that vaguely resembles a file manager. Dragging and moving files around is beautifully executed. Tagging is too, for those who use that feature. But otherwise, this is practically useless given how much hype Apple is throwing behind it. For now.

What do you guys think?

 

[elemenohme]

...

 

[richpjr]

What do you guys think?

I agree with pretty much everything you say - good take.

 

[one more]

Totally agreed, Files is more of a concept for now. We can’t even populate it connecting an iOS device to a computer via iTunes. It looks like Apple are trying to push more people into using iCloud. However, many still resist, not wanting to pay for a service if they need more than 5GB of space. Apple could easily change this by increasing iCloud free tier to, say, 20 GB.

Dropbox’s biggest strength for me is in the fact that I can interact with it from almost any device that has internet access (Windows, MacOS, Linux, iOS, Android, you name it). Until Apple can come up with comparable accessibility & sharing options, they will lag behind.

 

[d5aqoëp]

The files app is totally useless as long as it does not allow me to directly save yourfilename.mp4 downloaded off from Safari into "On my iPhone/iPad" folder.

Rest of it transferring from icloud to files app to drop box is pure nonsense.

 

[Sunshoopa]

I’m still confused on how it works. You actually cleared a lot of stuff up for me though. I’ve had iOS 11 for more than a month now and haven’t used it for anything useful yet. I thought I could take stuff from the Files app and put it into Dropbox and the other services, and then do it the other way around for when I need it, but turns out you can only import.

I guess it’s supposed to be a sort of a domain where all your stuff is, but it’s not near what I thought it was going to be. Safe to say I’ll likely never even use it any time soon. Unless I’m missing something and there’s more to it with 3rd party apps when iOS 11 actually releases.

Wish we could have the Filza file manager app (from the jailbreak world). While Filza is somewhat complicated for the average user, it’s what everyone wanted pretty much for a file manager.

 

[d5aqoëp]

Totally agreed, Files is more of a concept for now.

It is not even a concept. In it’s current form, it is pure wasted space on our iDevices. Gone are the days when Apple used to implement a feature ONLY after it was fully ready. I am pretty sure that files app in its current form it the best that we get at RTM release.

Apple hates to give control to users which can potentially reduce their music/video/movies revenue.

 

[FatalFallacy]

Totally agreed, Files is more of a concept for now. We can’t even populate it connecting an iOS device to a computer via iTunes.

... not speaking of directly dropping a file from windows explorer or some other file manager, even if it is shown as "\Apple iPhone\Internal Storage" on the host.
Not sure what this internal storage is apart from the DCIMs, appearently not the internal storage shown in the files app... -.-

I feel reminded alot of the first ootb PalmOS file manager introduced with Palm OS 5 Garnet in the early 2000s.
Users complained there as well for years and what they got in the end was also just some rudimentary functionality.
Boy i am getting old...
Ironically this one also simply was called "Files", history repeating

 

[Shirasaki]

Files app is still an infant in its current stage. No or limited local file storage support. Does not allow people to transfer any file into it through Bluetooth or Wifi without cloud service. iPhone user cannot use it. These obvious missing features are enough for me to keep using already mature stuff such as Documents and GoodReader (not being actively developers anymore tho).

 

[FatalFallacy]

The files app is totally useless as long as it does not allow me to directly save yourfilename.mp4 downloaded off from Safari into "On my iPhone/iPad" folder.

What bothers me the most is:

Why are we not allowed to save files directly into the root folder of the files app AND are not allowed to simply create a folder but have to stick to the ones provided by apps like Keynote, Garageband, PDF-Viewer, you name it...?

Why do I need to use another apple provided app to do save a file or video into the phones internal storage in the files app?

What I did in the end: I generated a simple Workflow in this newly Apple owned 'Workflow' app as an 'Action Extension' that does simply the following:
'Get Contents from URL'
'Save File' with service 'iCloud Drive' (funnily enough calls the 'Files' app).

Intuitive? Level: -300.
But allows me to use the Share/Action-button to save a file directly from Safari into Files.
Should this be built in? Yepp, definitely.

 

[stulaw11]

In it’s current form, it is pure wasted space on our iDevices.

Apple hates to give control to users which can potentially reduce their music/video/movies revenue.

It's not wasted space for many people who use multiple cloud services and want to transfer files between them and access them all in 1 app; regardless of what the 3rd party has out (which most make you pay for over x number of cloud services in the free version).

Your second statement makes zero sense. Apple has allowed side loading of songs and video (import into itunes) to the native music/video apps since what, iOS3? That theory makes zero sense that it is about itunes revenue.

The MORE LIKELY reason is exposing the root directory (like android) and 75 year old grandma goes and accidentally deletes a critical file and phone crashes to DFU until restored is not the experience Apple wants or is about. I do think Files will expand past where it is, it is only the very first version of it.

 

[d5aqoëp]

The MORE LIKELY reason is exposing the root directory (like android) and 75 year old grandma goes and accidentally deletes a critical file and phone crashes to DFU until restored is not the experience Apple wants or is about.

Good god! You need to stop with your FUD.

No one expects Apple to expose root directory. Just expose 1 Folder called Downloads and give it read/write access to all iOS apps as well as any authenticated PC connected using USB lightning cable. So we could use 256gb/512gb iPhones/iPads as usb storage devices. Right now the 512 GB devices are overkill if you have slow internet or low data caps.

Android does it all too well.

 

[stulaw11]

The only FUD (since you clearly don't know what it even means) is insistent whining about literally nothing. It is the FIRST VERSION/PRE-RELEASE with NO CLUE how third parties like USB sticks are going to integrate (or not) their app. Claiming to know otherwise is simply talking out one's a**

Android does it all too well.

If Android does it oh so well then BUH BYE!!

 

[richpjr]

If Android does it oh so well then BUH BYE!!

What if d5aqoëp prefers iOS but just finds that the file system in Android is far superior (seemingly like a lot of other people do)?

 

[Feenician]

What if d5aqoëp prefers iOS but just finds that the file system in Android is far superior (seemingly like a lot of other people do)?

Well, perhaps if he did it would indicate that he, like you and many others blathering about the “file system” on iOS don’t know the difference between a file system and a file manager and aren’t particularly well qualified to comment on the topic.

 

[kasakka]

The Files app is pretty bad. This is a thing touted as a new feature of iOS yet I can’t use it to do simple things like create a folder on the device and put files in there. At a bare minimum I should be able to download and save any files from Safari or email apps.

 

[aevan]

Hey guys and gals,

In short, this is what I wish iCloud was.

I don't, and I think you misunderstand what iCloud Drive is. Dropbox is just one part of iCloud Drive's abilities. Let's split iCloud Drive into several "parts":

- The "Dropbox-like" part: this is the part you see when you click on iCloud Drive in Finder, but that's just a part of the iCloud Drive. This part works like you'd like and you can use it just as Dropbox (and it's getting file sharing now in High Sierra/iOS 11 so it's more like Dropbox. Only the 'previous versions' feature is missing, but I'm sure we'll get that eventually)

This is the part where you sync files (documents) that are usable to you directly. In other words, you can create a folder in iCloud drive called "My important stuff" and put a bunch of files there and it works just like it should. If apps are dealing with files that are also usable to you directly, their developers have opted to make an iCloud Drive folder for that app too (just like a lot of apps create their folders in Dropbox). For example, PDF Expert is for (surprise!) handling, editing and reading PDF files - so it creates a PDF Expert folder in iCloud Drive. You don't have to use that folder for PDF files, but the macOS and iOS app default to that folder, so if you use these apps, you might as well put some PDFs there. But this is just an ordinary folder. You can put whatever you feel like in it, make subfolders, make totally different folders. Pages does this too - makes a folder in iCloud Drive and puts all these documents in there, and you can put other documents, etc. You get it. Just like Dropbox.

Here's a part of iCloud Drive that also deals with files, but it's not like Dropbox:

- The App Data part: Apple calls this "Documents", but to avoid confusion (since Documents is also a folder name in iCloud Drive and also a term for a bunch of document files) I call this 'the app data'. This part also stores files, but these files and folders you don't see.

This is the part where you sync files that are NOT usable to you directly. I will best explain this with an example. You probably heard of 1Password. 1Password lets you choose where to store passwords in the cloud, and you can choose between Dropbox and iCloud (and maybe a third option, don't remember). I used to store the passwords in Dropbox, so what 1Password did was make a folder named "1Password" and put a file that they call "vault" there. This is an encrypted file with a weird filename. While it's a really important file because it stores passwords, I have no direct use for having it here - I can't open it, I can't rename it, I can't move it. And since 1Password folder has to be named "1Password" and since it starts with "1", it was always the first folder in my Dropbox folder, always there, just breaking my nicely sorted stuff. I had folders like "Work", "Personal", "Media" and "Family" - and I also had to have "1Password" there, and with something I can't really use as a file. This was not the fault of 1Password developers, with Dropbox, they simply didn't have a choice.

But then I switched to iCloud Drive, and the good devs decided to sync the 1Password vault through "the App Data" part. This means that the vault file is accessible only to 1Password app and I don't see it, which is great because it does exactly the same thing, but without messing my files and folders structure. A lot of other apps use this too, and it's up to developers to choose what is best. For example, since a lot of note taking apps (like Evernote) have this weird folder structure with weird proprietary formats for notes - they usually don't show these files to users. Evernote has their own servers, but Notability uses the App Data part to sync notes, instead of filling up your iCloud Drive folder with weird subfolders and files you don't need to see.

Finally we have:

- The Apple Services files part: and no, I don't have a better name So, this is similar to the App Data part, but this is just for Apple services. For example, this is the iCloud Photo Library. It's also files, they also take up your iCloud space, and you don't see them directly - just like notes in Notability or the vault from 1Password. This is also good, because if you know how Photos apps work, you'll know that they make this complex folder structure for a bunch of photos and it's not really usable for humans. But your photos are there, hidden from sight, but easily accessible from the Photos app. Same with Mail Drop (although Mail Drop doesn't use your iCloud Drive space, but instead just holds whatever it needs for 30 days). Even Apple Music uses this system to store uploaded music files, but this isn't considered a part of iCloud Drive.


So, there you go. I admit, Apple made a mess with naming, but if you go beyond that you see that iCloud Drive is much more than Dropbox and is better because of it. This is why a lot of people use BOTH iCloud Drive and Dropbox - because they just choose to replace the "directly usable files" part of iCloud Drive with Dropbox, but everything else is still useful.

In short: no, iCloud Drive should not be just like Dropbox
[doublepost=1504350690][/doublepost]

Hey guys and gals,



Instead, the new Files app is a really raw, terribly basic, and poorly designed substitute. For one, it by design pushes you to upload everything into iCloud Drive. The local storage option is not even visible when you launch it.

Again a misunderstanding, the Files app is not meant to replace the Readdle Documents app, instead, it allows Readdle app to integrate into it.

The reason you don't see local storage is because you're thinking in macOS terms of local storage. iPad doesn't have "a root folder", instead, apps have them. It's ok, because it basically does the same thing, but in order to use local storage, you need iOS 11 apps - and these are still not out. In other words: we're in beta stage

As I've been testing a beta version of an iOS 11 app - Procreate 4 - I can tell you how it works. The moment you install Procreate 4, you get a "Procreate 4" folder in your local storage. I can assume that when you install iOS 11 Readdle Documents, you'll get a "Readdle Documents" folder there too. You can use these folders any way you like and make subfolders. The only difference is that you don't see "the root", like your hard drive. This is not really an issue, and there are reasons for this that I won't go into.

For example, I store all my art related stuff in a folder named, ehm, "Art Stuff" and this is located in Procreate 4 folder. If I had an iOS 11 video player app, I would probably put videos in that folder, but it really doesn't matter much, because I added these subfolders to favorites anyway and this is how I access them. Basically, it's just like on a Mac with one small difference: I can't see or create folders in the root drive. This feels bad if you're used to the old way, but it really won't be a problem the moment we have more iOS 11 apps. There will be file management apps that offer their folders and you'll just create subfolders there, drag them to favorites. At the same time, these apps will still offer the ability to access these files from the app too - so it's up to developers to see how to best use this feature.

In other words - Files is just a start, it still needs some features (like built in unzipping) but it's a good start. I'm sorry to say that the critics here just don't know how to use it yet.

 

[stulaw11]

Well, perhaps if he did it would indicate that he, like you and many others blathering about the “file system” on iOS don’t know the difference between a file system and a file manager and aren’t particularly well qualified to comment on the topic.

bingo

Again a misunderstanding, the Files app is not meant to replace the Readdle Documents app, instead, it allows Readdle app to integrate into it.

The reason you don't see local storage is because you're thinking in macOS terms of local storage. iPad doesn't have "a root folder", instead, apps have them. It's ok, because it basically does the same thing, but in order to use local storage, you need iOS 11 apps - and these are still not out. In other words: we're in beta stage

In other words - Files is just a start, it still needs some features (like built in unzipping) but it's a good start. I'm sorry to say that the critics here just don't know how to use it yet.

Another bingo. It's version 1 of this app, and no apps integrate into it YET. People want to judge it before even seeing what it really does. ANY app will be able to create a local folder and then move date between those app folders and others etc.

 

[richpjr]

Well, perhaps if he did it would indicate that he, like you and many others blathering about the “file system” on iOS don’t know the difference between a file system and a file manager and aren’t particularly well qualified to comment on the topic.

Perhaps if he, like you and many others blathering about the semantics of calling it a file system vs manager all the while knowing exactly what is meant, actually responded to the point instead of playing word games, it would make your replies somewhat useful. Pointing out that some people prefer the way certain things are done on Android doesn't mean they should switch platforms.

 

[stulaw11]

Perhaps if he, like you and many others blathering about the semantics of calling it a file system vs manager all the while knowing exactly what is meant, actually responded to the point instead of playing word games, it would make your replies somewhat useful. Pointing out that some people prefer the way certain things are done on Android doesn't mean they should switch platforms.

There is a HUGE difference between an underlying file system being exposed to the user and file manager software allowing manipulating of purely user created files.

Apple has never once, in the prior keynote announcing it or its materials, claimed this was anywhere near a full file system. Baseless assumptions are all that is going around.

And it is akin to banging one's head against the wall and expecting some different result than an expected headache. Apple is not going to change their ways or Files app, at least not in the very near future, no matter HOW MUCH one complains or posts on Macrumors. It is accept it or move on to what does fit what you want right now in the present. It WILL get better, it is version 1 of the app.

 

[richpjr]

There is a HUGE difference between an underlying file system being exposed to the user and file manager software allowing manipulating of purely user created files.

Apple has never once, in the prior keynote announcing it or its materials, claimed this was anywhere near a full file system. Baseless assumptions are all that is going around.

And it is akin to banging one's head against the wall and expecting some different result than an expected headache. Apple is not going to change their ways or Files app, at least not in the very near future, no matter HOW MUCH one complains or posts on Macrumors. It is accept it or move on to what does fit what you want right now in the present. It WILL get better, it is version 1 of the app.

And still you focus on the semantics and ignore what people are griping about - wanting better access and control of their files since they feel other platforms do a much better job than Apple does. Obviously we have no control over what Apple will or will not do. Time will tell if future versions will be better. Heaven forbid anyone use a public forum to discuss something.

 

[stulaw11]

And still you focus on the semantics and ignore what people are griping about - wanting better access and control of their files since they feel other platforms do a much better job than Apple does. Obviously we have no control over what Apple will or will not do. Time will tell if future versions will be better. Heaven forbid anyone use a public forum to discuss something.

Semantics here=reality

All of the other talk=fantasy/hopes/dreams

 

[richpjr]

Semantics here=reality

All of the other talk=fantasy/hopes/dreams

If you want to focus on that it is certainly your prerogative. I don't really care if some uses their when they should use they're, literally when they should use figuratively or mispronounces forte. If they call a file manager, file system or file thingy I get their gist.

 

[007p]

Just expose 1 Folder called Downloads and give it read/write access to all iOS apps as well as any authenticated PC connected using USB lightning cable. So we could use 256gb/512gb iPhones/iPads as usb storage devices. Right now the 512 GB devices are overkill if you have slow internet or low data caps.

I'm missing something - you are just describing what it does already? Replace the word 'folder' with 'app' and that's how it functions now. I know it doesn't seem like it now in the beta but wait for apps to be updated - I've tested this myself whilst playing around with the new APIs.

What is it about a folder that you think will make things any better? If an app is correctly set up - which they won't be until iOS 11 is released and Apple allows them in the app store - then it's documents can be accessed by any other app to read/write files. If you want a 'centralized folder' then just designate that to a particular app (there will be hundreds of these to choose from after iOS 11 launches) and it will function just how you are describing.

The only thing missing is being able to connect the device to a pc and instantly get access to the device as storage - that will probably never change (especially when they are pushing for the ipad to replace such a thing) - but its entirely possible through iTunes or other software e.g. iMazing / iFunbox.

 

[canesalato]

I'm missing something - you are just describing what it does already? Replace the word 'folder' with 'app' and that's how it functions now. I know it doesn't seem like it now in the beta but wait for apps to be updated - I've tested this myself whilst playing around with the new APIs.

What is it about a folder that you think will make things any better? If an app is correctly set up - which they won't be until iOS 11 is released and Apple allows them in the app store - then it's documents can be accessed by any other app to read/write files. If you want a 'centralized folder' then just designate that to a particular app (there will be hundreds of these to choose from after iOS 11 launches) and it will function just how you are describing.

The only thing missing is being able to connect the device to a pc and instantly get access to the device as storage - that will probably never change (especially when they are pushing for the ipad to replace such a thing) - but its entirely possible through iTunes or other software e.g. iMazing / iFunbox.

Well, the thing that is really missing, IMHO, is connecting a usb drive / sd card to the iPad and see it appearing in Files side bar.