What Happened To Hardware Acceleration in High Sierra?

[Sovon Halder]

I read in some threads that VLC already supports hardware decode. Even a VLC developer said this. To me and to my specific usage, VLC is pure horses**t. It's the worst player being intensive resource hog that doesn't seem to think about battery at all.

I found IINA and have been using it since. It's so far the best option. I could see where it supported the hardware acceleration as it showed in the Inspector - "Hw Decoder: videotoolbox" and in other places where it didn't was shown as "Hw Decoder: no".

Now that High Sierra is launched, VLC is still the same, kind of raping the battery. VLC doesn't matter to much since I won't be using it anyway. But... in IINA, I was expecting to see some changes. But I still can't play UHD HEVC high bitrate 10bit stuff.

I see what most people in the community are doing to test 4K playback - downloading samples, transcoding, muxing etc. It typically isn't the case for me. I WOULD PLAY/CONSUME 4K MEDIA CONTENT (MOVIE/DOCUMENTARY). I have some UHD titles and all I care about is playing those files flawlessly and taking in all the UHD goodness. I still can't do that.

The following are some of the high bitrate HEVC 10bit UHD titles that I tried to play...
Planet Earth II 4K
Revenant
Star Trek Into Darkness

None of them are playing with hardware support at all. What gives?

Are we to expect another HS update? Should we expect an IINA update that supports hardware acceleration?
WHY AREN'T PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT IT ?

 

[Ritsuka]

No, VLC doesn't support HEVC hardware decode yet. IINA neither.

If you want to hardware decode right now you have to use QuickTime, until third party apps update their code.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

The fact that they've added support for hardware acceleration doesn't magically make all applications who could benefit run super well.

What's required is; A: For the software to be run on hardware that supports HEVC encoding in hardware, B: For the content to be HEVC encoded and, most importantly, C: For the players to actually implement support for the new hardware acceleration features added to OSX. As far as I'm aware VLC hasn't done this yet (which is understandable seeing how 10.13 only came out yesterday).

 

[Alrescha]

If you want to hardware decode right now you have to use QuickTime, until third party apps update their code.

In my limited experience the QuickTime support is not pretty - IINA does a much better job (yes, it uses six times the CPU, but the result is watchable at least).

A.

 

[Sovon Halder]

No, VLC doesn't support HEVC hardware decode yet. IINA neither.

If you want to hardware decode right now you have to use QuickTime, until third party apps update their code.

I could swear there were threads about this topic.. VLC supporting hardware acceleration. I'll try to find the link and post it here. Nevertheless, I couldn't care less about VLC at this point.

Thank you for your reply Ritsuka. Do you have any idea about when we can expect to see hardware support in third party apps?
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In my limited experience the QuickTime support is not pretty - IINA does a much better job (yes, it uses six times the CPU, but the result is watchable at least).

A.

You meant VLC right?

IINA is the second best (next to QT) media player I've come across in Mac environment in this very limited experience of mine in this short period of time. It uses more resources than QT. Twice sometimes and 2.5 - 3 times in some cases. But that's nothing compared to what VLC does to the CPU.

For example...

If I play jellyfish 4K h264 140mbps 8bit.. VLC uses more than 300% whereas IINA about 25%.
[doublepost=1506419274][/doublepost]

The fact that they've added support for hardware acceleration doesn't magically make all applications who could benefit run super well.

What's required is; A: For the software to be run on hardware that supports HEVC encoding in hardware, B: For the content to be HEVC encoded and, most importantly, C: For the players to actually implement support for the new hardware acceleration features added to OSX. As far as I'm aware VLC hasn't done this yet (which is understandable seeing how 10.13 only came out yesterday).

Yeah.
Hardware should support h265 encoding/decoding and player should use that hardware.
Any idea about when we can expect to see an update on IINA ?

 

[Ritsuka]

Hardware should support h265 encoding/decoding and player should use that hardware.
Any idea about when we can expect to see an update on IINA ?

IINA is a nice gui for an open source project (mpv) which uses another open source project (FFmpeg). So first someone has to fix FFmpeg, then update mpv, and then IINA will need to uses the latest mpv version.

No one is getting paid for this, so there isn't a ETA.

 

[Alrescha]

You meant VLC right?

No, I mean IINA. It is using software decoding for x.265 so of course it uses much more CPU than QuickTime which is using hardware decoding. The problem is that while neither program can handle the test file I am using (Sony 4k/HDR Camp), IINA deals with the lack of resources much better than QuickTime. IINA gives me a predictable slide show whereas QuickTime is a jerky unwatchable disaster.

A.

 

[hwojtek]

WHY AREN'T PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT IT ?

Because you've used the wrong player. VLC didn't change from the day before yesterday, the updated QuickTime Player in High Sierra is what you're looking for.

 

[Ritsuka]

If your 4k video is jerky on QuickTime it means it's not using the hardware decoder, or that your computer can't decode it in hardware. What's your mac model?

 

[Alrescha]

If your 4k video is jerky on QuickTime it means it's not using the hardware decoder

Oh, good point. I assumed hardware because QuickTime/VTD is using a fraction of the CPU that IINA uses. I guess I should give QT more credit. I wish it would use a little more CPU and do a better job...

A.

 

[loekf]

Now that High Sierra is launched, VLC is still the same, kind of raping the battery. VLC doesn't matter to much since I won't be using it anyway. But... in IINA, I was expecting to see some changes. But I still can't play UHD HEVC high bitrate 10bit stuff.

....

The following are some of the high bitrate HEVC 10bit UHD titles that I tried to play...
Planet Earth II 4K
Revenant
Star Trek Into Darkness

None of them are playing with hardware support at all. What gives?

Are we to expect another HS update? Should we expect an IINA update that supports hardware acceleration?
WHY AREN'T PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT IT ?

Which mac model you have ?

I have a Late 2014 iMac 5k with a core i5 Haswell.

I tried two 4K "rips":

Planet Earth II 4K ~29 Mbps HEVC 10-bits (checked with Mediainfo)
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 4K ~30 Mbps HEVC 10-bits

On Sierra HEVC with VLC is a no go
On High Sierra, Planet Earth works with VLC, GotG is a no-go. However, IINA does the job.

My only complain is that full screen, the video appears to have a softer look. However, that's probably due to the upscaling to 5K and you're so close to the screen. On my HDTV, 4K of course looks razor sharp with 2x downsampling (played with Nvidia Shield, AppleTV 4K .. waiting for an update of MrMC supporting HEVC HW decode).

My conclusion was last night that some form of hardware acceleration is taking place, but I didn't check what VideoToolbox is doing. I can't imagine that High Sierra suddenly does miracles for CPU performance.

EDIT: I'll have a closer look tonight, also what the CPU utilization is.

 

[Sovon Halder]

No, I mean IINA.

I was referring to the part where you said IINA uses six times more GPU than QT.
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No one is getting paid for this, so there isn't a ETA.

I hope something comes out soon. I guess others are waiting for this as well.
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Because you've used the wrong player. VLC didn't change from the day before yesterday, the updated QuickTime Player in High Sierra is what you're looking for.

I think my question at the very end was a bit ambiguous. I saw the changeling and the release notes earlier today. What you said is true that there hasn't been any revisions since HS released. I meant to say... I'm curious why more people aren't talking about this UHD standard.

 

[Alrescha]

I was referring to the part where you said IINA uses six times more GPU than QT.

Well, I said CPU, not GPU, and I stand by that in that IINA uses four to six times more CPU than QuickTime when playing the test video I mentioned. IINA produces a better result, but certainly not six times better. It seems like QT could use a little more CPU and win - it is not clear why it does not.

A.

 

[Sovon Halder]

If your 4k video is jerky on QuickTime it means it's not using the hardware decoder, or that your computer can't decode it in hardware. What's your mac model?

Mine is a 2017 MBP TB 13". Most of the stuff that I'm trying to play are in mkv container, not supported by QT. IINA clearly isn't using hardware decoder either.
[doublepost=1506423661][/doublepost]

Well, I said CPU, not GPU, and I stand by that in that IINA uses four to six times more CPU than QuickTime when playing the test video I mentioned. IINA produces a better result, but certainly not six times better. It seems like QT could use a little more CPU and win - it is not clear why it does not.

A.

Four to six times - I agree to that. I tried to put together a list for comparison of resource usage between Sierra and High Sierra for media playback. In some of those tests I saw this.. QT using 1/3rd the resource of IINA. I'm attaching the photo for reference.

 

[Ritsuka]

Mine is a 2017 MBP TB 13". Most of the stuff that I'm trying to play are in mkv container, not supported by QT. IINA clearly isn't using hardware decoder either.

You can easily remux mkv files to mp4 with Subler, mp4box or ffmpeg or another app.

 

[Sovon Halder]

You can easily remux mkv files to mp4 with Subler, mp4box or ffmpeg or another app.

Yeah I can do that. But it would be really nice to not have to worry about compatibility in players. Its just another exercise that doesn't need to exist. I feel like opening the computer, downloading stuff and playing back without thinking of anything else. I guess that would be much better experience.

But yeah, until things sort out, which can take some time I understand, one has to do these.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

Yeah.
Hardware should support h265 encoding/decoding and player should use that hardware.
Any idea about when we can expect to see an update on IINA ?

I may be a software developer, but I don't work IINA so I have no idea when they're planning on adding support. You should probably contact them directly (there ought to be a contact email on their website) and ask them that.