What is a server?

[MacBH928]

Sorry this probably sounds stupid but I am trying to wrap my head on what a server is. My understanding is a server is just a computer that you connect to that has files you want to retrieve , so how that makes it any different from my current macbook that has files? Can't I just connect to my macbook from over a network and browse and download files from it?

I keep hearing people say "I set up a home server" but how is that any different from just putting a regular mac mini with files and connecting to it? My Finder on MacOS has a network tab that I see other computers on the network.

I feel like I am missing something here.

 

[headlessmike]

Sorry this probably sounds stupid but I am trying to wrap my head on what a server is. My understanding is a server is just a computer that you connect to that has files you want to retrieve , so how that makes it any different from my current macbook that has files? Can't I just connect to my macbook from over a network and browse and download files from it?

I keep hearing people say "I set up a home server" but how is that any different from just putting a regular mac mini with files and connecting to it? My Finder on MacOS has a network tab that I see other computers on the network.

I feel like I am missing something here.

The first sentence on the Wikipedia page for servers gives a good summary: "In computing, a server is a piece of computer hardware or software (computer program) that provides functionality for other programs or devices, called "clients"."

Your computer effectively becomes a server when another computer (the client) accesses it. What people usually mean when they mention servers are computers that are dedicated entirely to things like this. That might be the point you're missing.

 

[MacBH928]

The first sentence on the Wikipedia page for servers gives a good summary: "In computing, a server is a piece of computer hardware or software (computer program) that provides functionality for other programs or devices, called "clients"."

Your computer effectively becomes a server when another computer (the client) accesses it. What people usually mean when they mention servers are computers that are dedicated entirely to things like this. That might be the point you're missing.

I guess you are right, its a usage terminology not hardware/software terminology which got me confused.

 

[Algus]

Just about any computer can be a server too. "A normal Mac mini with file share" is exactly what I use!

My mini has a bunch of extra storage attached to it so I can store about 8 TB of data on it. Rather than plug all my other computers and gadgets up to that storage, I just route everything through my mini. For the basic home user, an old computer is a perfect starting server. You might see some of these crazy rack setups where people have all these doodads and glowing lights - you don't need any of that. Unless you turn it into a hobby, that's probably overkill for 99% of home users who might get some advantage out of having a small server.

 

[eyoungren]

Sorry this probably sounds stupid but I am trying to wrap my head on what a server is. My understanding is a server is just a computer that you connect to that has files you want to retrieve , so how that makes it any different from my current macbook that has files? Can't I just connect to my macbook from over a network and browse and download files from it?

I keep hearing people say "I set up a home server" but how is that any different from just putting a regular mac mini with files and connecting to it? My Finder on MacOS has a network tab that I see other computers on the network.

I feel like I am missing something here.

I guess you are right, its a usage terminology not hardware/software terminology which got me confused.

Dedicated servers have software designed for specific purposes. Web servers serve internet files to browsers, email servers handle email and route it to the proper recipient, fileservers share files. In the latter case, server software prevents things like files being opened by more than one person at a time. Two (or more) people trying to save the same file with different changes at the same time can be a disaster.

But with the proliferation of filesharing on client computers, Network Attached Storage (NAS) and advances in OS, the distinction between servers and standard clients is very minimal now. Heck, you can even attach drives to your router via USB and have your router share the drive to your home network.

For most home networks a server in unnecessary. I've used filesharing off of one Mac for years and I got a NAS at some point as well. But it's basically just me and some family members. It's easy to keep track of open files and file permissions.

Large businesses are different. You want a server there because you have multiple people accessing lots of files.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Sorry this probably sounds stupid but I am trying to wrap my head on what a server is. My understanding is a server is just a computer that you connect to that has files you want to retrieve , so how that makes it any different from my current macbook that has files? Can't I just connect to my macbook from over a network and browse and download files from it?

I keep hearing people say "I set up a home server" but how is that any different from just putting a regular mac mini with files and connecting to it? My Finder on MacOS has a network tab that I see other computers on the network.

I feel like I am missing something here.

A server is a computer or system that provides resources, data, programs, or other services to other computers.

When people think servers, they usually think of these:

This is a server blade, which is a special designed computer that is made to be rack mounted and can have parts hot swapped while in use so service is not disrupted while maintenance or changes are being done. But what most don't know, is this can also be a server:

Any computer can be made into a server if it's providing a service and data for other computers, like a Mac Mini. A common thing people use old Mac Minis for is using them as Plex servers, storing media such as movies, TV shows, and music on the computer, and then sharing that media across all devices in your home. Alternatively, there's storage servers, where a small computer in the home or business is being used as the main source of storage with several storage units connected to it that you access over your local network. And of course in multiplayer games you can have your computer become a server for others online to use, such as in Minecraft.

Now you know what a server is. It's nothing special, it's just a term used for a computer that provides data and service for other computers.

 

[MacBH928]

Just about any computer can be a server too. "A normal Mac mini with file share" is exactly what I use!

My mini has a bunch of extra storage attached to it so I can store about 8 TB of data on it. Rather than plug all my other computers and gadgets up to that storage, I just route everything through my mini. For the basic home user, an old computer is a perfect starting server. You might see some of these crazy rack setups where people have all these doodads and glowing lights - you don't need any of that. Unless you turn it into a hobby, that's probably overkill for 99% of home users who might get some advantage out of having a small server.

Dedicated servers have software designed for specific purposes. Web servers serve internet files to browsers, email servers handle email and route it to the proper recipient, fileservers share files. In the latter case, server software prevents things like files being opened by more than one person at a time. Two (or more) people trying to save the same file with different changes at the same time can be a disaster.

But with the proliferation of filesharing on client computers, Network Attached Storage (NAS) and advances in OS, the distinction between servers and standard clients is very minimal now. Heck, you can even attach drives to your router via USB and have your router share the drive to your home network.

For most home networks a server in unnecessary. I've used filesharing off of one Mac for years and I got a NAS at some point as well. But it's basically just me and some family members. It's easy to keep track of open files and file permissions.

Large businesses are different. You want a server there because you have multiple people accessing lots of files.

A server is a computer or system that provides resources, data, programs, or other services to other computers.

When people think servers, they usually think of these:

This is a server blade, which is a special designed computer that is made to be rack mounted and can have parts hot swapped while in use so service is not disrupted while maintenance or changes are being done. But what most don't know, is this can also be a server:

Any computer can be made into a server if it's providing a service and data for other computers, like a Mac Mini. A common thing people use old Mac Minis for is using them as Plex servers, storing media such as movies, TV shows, and music on the computer, and then sharing that media across all devices in your home. Alternatively, there's storage servers, where a small computer in the home or business is being used as the main source of storage with several storage units connected to it that you access over your local network. And of course in multiplayer games you can have your computer become a server for others online to use, such as in Minecraft.

Now you know what a server is. It's nothing special, it's just a term used for a computer that provides data and service for other computers.

You are all correct.

i just got confused because I read something you install "server" software on NAS and I am wonder what is server software and it appears just software that manages files for access over a network. This confused me because computers on a local network also can have their folders/files access from another computer as you have mentioned with the macmini example.

So why people bother installing those expensive NAS server at home if they can just access any computer the same way like Mac Mini? I am guessing its just because it can keep a backup copy? Thats my understanding of NAS is that you will have main storage and an always auto backedup storage for redundancy.

 

[eyoungren]

So why people bother installing those expensive NAS server at home if they can just access any computer the same way like Mac Mini? I am guessing its just because it can keep a backup copy?

I have a NAS on my home network because it makes it easy to access files. I keep the files I always want access to on the NAS.

Unlike me, a lot of people turn their computers off when they are done with them. If the computer you are sharing files from is off, then you can't get to the files.

A NAS is also 'headless'. That means it does not have a monitor - you access control of it through a web browser. The computer that you may be sharing files from probably has a monitor attached. Which means that's probably going to be on too - unless you set that up to function via Screen Sharing and don't use a monitor with it.

But that's usually more involved than most people want to get.

 

[Expos of 1969]

They used to call them waiters and waitresses

 

[MacBH928]

I have a NAS on my home network because it makes it easy to access files. I keep the files I always want access to on the NAS.

Unlike me, a lot of people turn their computers off when they are done with them. If the computer you are sharing files from is off, then you can't get to the files.

A NAS is also 'headless'. That means it does not have a monitor - you access control of it through a web browser. The computer that you may be sharing files from probably has a monitor attached. Which means that's probably going to be on too - unless you set that up to function via Screen Sharing and don't use a monitor with it.

But that's usually more involved than most people want to get.

can you not SSH to mac mini via MacOS ? Sorry if i sound stupid but I really have not done too much networking in my life.

Do you manage the NAS via SSH or it has web interface as in you put in the NAS IP in a browser and you can control it from there?

 

[eyoungren]

can you not SSH to mac mini via MacOS ? Sorry if i sound stupid but I really have not done too much networking in my life.

Sure…but for me, I'd rather use screensharing. I'm more of a visual person than a terminal person.

Do you manage the NAS via SSH or it has web interface as in you put in the NAS IP in a browser and you can control it from there?

Via web browser, yes, you put the NAS IP in a browser window…



This is just my NAS. Lots of different models out there with lots of different ways to access and manage things.

 

[MacBH928]

Sure…but for me, I'd rather use screensharing. I'm more of a visual person than a terminal person.


Via web browser, yes, you put the NAS IP in a browser window…

View attachment 2232230

This is just my NAS. Lots of different models out there with lots of different ways to access and manage things.

I see. So each NAS server comes with its own preinstalled control panel software or you install the HDDs in, then SSH into it and install whatever control panel you want?

I saw this before where you have to add a ":" after an IP and put in the port number. How do you know the port number of your NAS? I am not sure what the port does because for my router and Raspberry Pi I do not add port numbers just IP

thanks for the information!

 

[PhoenixDown]

So a server is like a computer in that you have (a) the hardware, (b) the OS (MAC, Windows, Linux, Other) and (c) the apps or services you want to use on that server (like maybe PLEX to stream your movie collection to your iPad).

So in most cases, you would choose want OS and software you want to use. Some solutions (like Synology) take an "apple" like approach where they provide the hardware and the OS and offer an "app store" to download additional apps or services you want to use on it.

Here is a good brief on PORT numbers and how they work. In short, the URL or IP address is the WHERE and the PORT is the WHAT (e.g. what application is looking to communicate with that server -- is it port 80 for an http url or maybe its another port for a mine craft server).

What are port numbers and how do they work?

Learn about port numbers, port processes -- or services -- and how they manage the traffic flow between devices and make network connections efficient.

www.techtarget.com

 

[Arran]

Sorry this probably sounds stupid but I am trying to wrap my head on what a server is. My understanding is a server is just a computer that you connect to that has files you want to retrieve , so how that makes it any different from my current macbook that has files? Can't I just connect to my macbook from over a network and browse and download files from it?

I keep hearing people say "I set up a home server" but how is that any different from just putting a regular mac mini with files and connecting to it? My Finder on MacOS has a network tab that I see other computers on the network.

I feel like I am missing something here.

It's all about delegation.

From a software architecture perspective, think of it like a server (waiter) in a restaurant: You, the hungry person, tell the server (waiter) you want a burger and they magically deliver a sizzling burger to your table. Just like that. You didn't need to worry about buying beef, onions, mushrooms, tomatoes, cheese, etc. Nor did you need to know how to cook everything. You just asked for a burger and you got one. From the server.

Now, going down a level, your waiter submitted an order to the kitchen and the kitchen did the actual cooking and plating of your burger. So in an architectural sense, the kitchen was a "server" to the waiter. They did something which the waiter didn't know how to do - or didn't have the skills to do.

 

[eyoungren]

I see. So each NAS server comes with its own preinstalled control panel software or you install the HDDs in, then SSH into it and install whatever control panel you want?

I saw this before where you have to add a ":" after an IP and put in the port number. How do you know the port number of your NAS? I am not sure what the port does because for my router and Raspberry Pi I do not add port numbers just IP

thanks for the information!

Most NAS devices will have their own pre-installed software yes. Basically it's baked into the hardware. As to ports, I don't know.

With my NAS device, the default settings are for it to get an IP address from the network. In my case I had my router designate a static IP address for my NAS. In this case 192.168.0.104. It's not good for your NAS to constantly be changing IP addresses because it makes connecting to the device from other computers a guessing game. With a static IP, the address won't change.

So that's all I enter into the browser. The rest of that info filled itself in as I logged in.

 

[MacBH928]

Here is a good brief on PORT numbers and how they work. In short, the URL or IP address is the WHERE and the PORT is the WHAT (e.g. what application is looking to communicate with that server -- is it port 80 for an http url or maybe its another port for a mine craft server).

What are port numbers and how do they work?

Learn about port numbers, port processes -- or services -- and how they manage the traffic flow between devices and make network connections efficient.

www.techtarget.com

oh that makes it easier to understand. So each app/software on the server has its own port? can't more than 1 software (plex/mine craft server) use the same port? How come my router (web interface) and Raspberry Pi (terminal ssh) does not need me to enter a port number?

 

[mcnallym]

oh that makes it easier to understand. So each app/software on the server has its own port? can't more than 1 software (plex/mine craft server) use the same port? How come my router (web interface) and Raspberry Pi (terminal ssh) does not need me to enter a port number?

No it cannot.

When you connect to the router then using standard https port of 443. Unless your router supports moving the web interface to a different port then https defaults to port 443 and won’t have to specify port.

same with SSH, then it is a known port of 22.

so unless you change the SSH listener on the raspberry pi to something other then 22 you won’t have to specify the port used.

if you have have two peices of software on the same server listening on the same port then how does the the machine know which application to send too. The listener is simply looking for an inbound port number.

 

[PhoenixDown]

Some apps may use a range of ports - like PORTS 5000 to 5999. This is because an app may have multiple instances in use. It also allows the app to use a different port if a particular port is in use.

 

[MacBH928]

No it cannot.

When you connect to the router then using standard https port of 443. Unless your router supports moving the web interface to a different port then https defaults to port 443 and won’t have to specify port.

same with SSH, then it is a known port of 22.

so unless you change the SSH listener on the raspberry pi to something other then 22 you won’t have to specify the port used.

if you have have two peices of software on the same server listening on the same port then how does the the machine know which application to send too. The listener is simply looking for an inbound port number.

Some apps may use a range of ports - like PORTS 5000 to 5999. This is because an app may have multiple instances in use. It also allows the app to use a different port if a particular port is in use.

thanks for sharing the knowledge!
I did a quick lookup and looks like ports has a limit at 65,353 possible ports. So I assume no network can have more than 65,353 apps running, correct? I know thats a crazy number of software but you know... in theory!

 

[mcnallym]

thanks for sharing the knowledge!
I did a quick lookup and looks like ports has a limit at 65,353 possible ports. So I assume no network can have more than 65,353 apps running, correct? I know thats a crazy number of software but you know... in theory!

That is not correct as you can have multiple servers on the same network on the same port.

server one with an IP of 10.10.10.10
seever two with an IP of 10.10.10.11

can both run a webserver app on port 443 as different IP addresses, on the same network, so the network can send the traffic to the two apps separately even though both on the same port.

it is the combo of IP address and Destination Port that is unique and so allows the network to send the traffic to the correct place.

 

[MacBH928]

I see , so its 65,353 ports per IP that is the limit

 

[mcnallym]

I see , so its 65,353 ports per IP that is the limit

Yep, if you can get a server that run that many apps😀

 

[InvertedGoldfish]

It’s “the cloud”

 

[dictoresno]

I have a NAS on my home network because it makes it easy to access files. I keep the files I always want access to on the NAS.

Unlike me, a lot of people turn their computers off when they are done with them. If the computer you are sharing files from is off, then you can't get to the files.

A NAS is also 'headless'. That means it does not have a monitor - you access control of it through a web browser. The computer that you may be sharing files from probably has a monitor attached. Which means that's probably going to be on too - unless you set that up to function via Screen Sharing and don't use a monitor with it.

But that's usually more involved than most people want to get.

this is what I do. I have a headless 2014 Mac mini with a 1TB blade (OS drive) and an internal 2TB drive (time machine backups of my upstairs M2 Mini) which I use in my network rack as a server. its also connected to an external docking bay which it serves as a backup node for my twin 4TB media drives in my office as a third redundant backup. all of my home sharing MP3's and movie files served to my Apple TV are on these drives I guess technically as a NAS.

 

[MacBH928]

this is what I do. I have a headless 2014 Mac mini with a 1TB blade (OS drive) and an internal 2TB drive (time machine backups of my upstairs M2 Mini) which I use in my network rack as a server. its also connected to an external docking bay which it serves as a backup node for my twin 4TB media drives in my office as a third redundant backup. all of my home sharing MP3's and movie files served to my Apple TV are on these drives I guess technically as a NAS.

Is there software you can use to control the headless server/computer remotely? I would like to get GUI instead of terminal SSH. I heard of things like VNC I am just not sure how effective they are. Last time I tried it , it moved in slow motion.