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What keyboard do you use to avoid pain?
- Thread starter levmc
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That clears it up.
Is it the force needed for actuation, the bottoming out of the key or the key travel that bothers you most ?
Is it the force needed for actuation, the bottoming out of the key or the key travel that bothers you most ?
I know that Logitech use membrane actuation for some of their more affordable models, this affords them some mushiness.
Full disclosure, far from my area of expertise.
Full disclosure, far from my area of expertise.
I have several Apple keyboards that I use on any given day, as well as a Logitech MX Keyboard and MX3 Mouse for Mac for my workstation. I have arthritis as well, and am a pretty quick typer, so I have to be really careful not to overdo it during long typing sessions.
The machine that most aggravated my hands BY FAR was the 2019 15" MacBook Pro I used to have for work. It had the shallow butterfly switches under the keys, which made my hands hurt a lot after a while and also caused a lot more typos. As long as those are gone for good (I believe they are) then all the other current keyboards Apple makes are feeling good to my hands these days.
The champ though is that Logitech combo I have. The keys on the keyboard have great travel and feel kind of springy so they absorb a lot of the shock that would usually go to my joints. And the MX3 mouse keeps my "clickin' finger" pain free for the most part as well.
The machine that most aggravated my hands BY FAR was the 2019 15" MacBook Pro I used to have for work. It had the shallow butterfly switches under the keys, which made my hands hurt a lot after a while and also caused a lot more typos. As long as those are gone for good (I believe they are) then all the other current keyboards Apple makes are feeling good to my hands these days.
The champ though is that Logitech combo I have. The keys on the keyboard have great travel and feel kind of springy so they absorb a lot of the shock that would usually go to my joints. And the MX3 mouse keeps my "clickin' finger" pain free for the most part as well.
To alive pain many users use traditionally with wrist guards! I suggest the one my friend uses Gel Wrist Pad and he loves it!
Dvorak. I switched decades ago and won’t be going back to the QWERTY layout, although I can and do switch if I’m on someon else’s computer for some reason. Probably not what you are looking for but who knows. More keys you press are on the home row = less finger travel. To me, the most significant difference comfort wise is the period placement. On Dvorak, it’s where the E is on QWERTY. I always use to ht it on the side of my pinky on QWERTY and it would get sore.
Is this the keyboard you use? https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Advanced-Wireless-Illuminated-Keyboard/dp/B07S92QBCJ/ref=sr_1_4?crid=38QUTN6PEEJH8&keywords=logitech+mx&qid=1649876505&sprefix=logitech+mx,aps,598&sr=8-4
For the mouse, I noticed MX 2S is $40 cheaper than MX3, but would you say MX3 is still worth the extra $40?
Also I noticed that it comes with a USB dongle. Can it be used without the dongle as just bluetooth or do you need to plug in that dongle for it to work?
Yes--that's the keyboard! I use all three Bluetooth profiles: 1) work Mac 2) personal Mac 3) iPad. It's really great to be able to hot swap between the three when needed and it's nice and springy to type on.
As far as the MX3 mouse, I would have to do some hunting around--I believe it does work without the receiver if you don't have FileVault turned on. If you do, it says you have to use the receiver. I have it plugged into the back of my UltraFine 4K to use with my Macs, but it's connecting to my iPad via straight Bluetooth as far as I'm aware. I'm not sure if it works with a cable connection only, but it might!
It took me some getting used to--I went from an Apple Magic Mouse 2 to this, and I kept knocking the Logitech off my desk for the first couple of weeks. It has a pretty high hump where your palm rests, and I kept knocking the side of my hand into it expecting the Magic Mouse's low profile. Once I got used to it though--best mouse I've ever had by far.
I have found the Apple keyboards and mice to be ergonometric disasters because of hand positioning and key press sensing. I use a logitech K350
Most of the audio control special keys work but not the other special keys. I remap the windows and alt keys to give me option and command. Only problem I've had with it is that the printing of the keys disappears after 4 years of heavy use. But for $30 hard to beat the price.
Logitech K350 Wave Ergonomic Keyboard with Unifying Wireless Technology - Black
With its distinctive Wave design and Constant Curve layout, Logitech Wireless Keyboard K350 guides your hands into just the right position and conforms naturally to your fingers. Plus, the cushioned palm rest helps position hands comfortably and properly on the keyboard. Together, they can help y...
www.amazon.com
Most of the audio control special keys work but not the other special keys. I remap the windows and alt keys to give me option and command. Only problem I've had with it is that the printing of the keys disappears after 4 years of heavy use. But for $30 hard to beat the price.
I use a Kinesis Edge RGB split keyboard. It's not perfect, but it keeps my wrists aligned by being split and tented. It also has mechanical keys, which I'm finding that I like very much.
Not sure how that would address your arthritis, but it's helped me avoid the problems I've had in the past with normal keyboards.
It's expensive, though. Think I paid around $200 USD.
Not sure how that would address your arthritis, but it's helped me avoid the problems I've had in the past with normal keyboards.
It's expensive, though. Think I paid around $200 USD.
It seems like there is a version without the number pad, which could be better since the space that the number pad takes can get in the way of space for mouse.
I personally use a Logitech G613 keyboard, it's a mechanical keyboard but doesn't have any lighting. Great feel and my wrists don't hurt while using it however I find it very large as I have a small desk. I'm planning to switch to a Keychron K3 soon because I prefer low-profile keyboards.
I used to use a Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 keyboard which was even bigger but was very comfortable to use because of the semi-split and tented layout. However the keys felt horrible and mushy so I bought the G613 ~4 years ago.
I used to use a Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 keyboard which was even bigger but was very comfortable to use because of the semi-split and tented layout. However the keys felt horrible and mushy so I bought the G613 ~4 years ago.
JahBoolean (sorry for not getting the link to credit your comment to work)
Everyone is different so YMMV. My situation makes many of the ergonomic keyboards and gel pads excruciatingly painful. I'd suggest focusing on your elbow to hand being parallel to the floor. I generally see people having their keyboard too high. This results in an angle at the wrist (elbow down - wrist high - hand low) which is problematic. A keyboard "drawer" which lowers the keyboard under the desk works really well.
I emphasize I'm not an ergonomic specialist. This is what works for me, and my states are "works" and "ouch." Bad positioning means it's hard to click a mouse button. Others may disagree (and that's ok.) I'm envious they can type any other way!
Regards,
Barry
Everyone is different so YMMV. My situation makes many of the ergonomic keyboards and gel pads excruciatingly painful. I'd suggest focusing on your elbow to hand being parallel to the floor. I generally see people having their keyboard too high. This results in an angle at the wrist (elbow down - wrist high - hand low) which is problematic. A keyboard "drawer" which lowers the keyboard under the desk works really well.
I emphasize I'm not an ergonomic specialist. This is what works for me, and my states are "works" and "ouch." Bad positioning means it's hard to click a mouse button. Others may disagree (and that's ok.) I'm envious they can type any other way!
Regards,
Barry
Agree with the above that MX Keys is better than Magic Keyboard for fingers as the keys feel much softer. You might want to try a mechanical keyboard with blue switches. They feel very cushiony--other mech switches can feel hard from bottoming out.
I’d go search for what keyswtches are preferred by people with similar symptoms/arthritis.
I use a UHK ( https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ ), technically two of them, one for home office and travel and one for in-office, and found a bit of split.arm/hand/elbow positioning was a big improvement when sometimes typing for 12-16 hours a day. In my case, I still like/prefer the old-school ‘buckling keys’ (think old IBM heavy keyboards) so the closest common switch is cherry blues (you can select your own key switches with many ‘custom’ keyboards).
You might do a bit of searching, or look at keyboards with switches with low pressure switches, maybe something like Cherry MX Reds or one of the popular (e.g. Kaith, others) non-cherry equivalents as it’s a smooth, soft, light keystroke.
I’d also consider giving a wrist rest a try.
I use a UHK ( https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ ), technically two of them, one for home office and travel and one for in-office, and found a bit of split.arm/hand/elbow positioning was a big improvement when sometimes typing for 12-16 hours a day. In my case, I still like/prefer the old-school ‘buckling keys’ (think old IBM heavy keyboards) so the closest common switch is cherry blues (you can select your own key switches with many ‘custom’ keyboards).
You might do a bit of searching, or look at keyboards with switches with low pressure switches, maybe something like Cherry MX Reds or one of the popular (e.g. Kaith, others) non-cherry equivalents as it’s a smooth, soft, light keystroke.
I’d also consider giving a wrist rest a try.
I use the das Keyboard MacTigr mechanical keyboard and I love it.
I find I get cramps with the Apple Magic keyboards as they have too short a stroke and low height that keeps my wrists at the wrong angle and a sort of crab posture in my hands. I hate them and my typing accuracy is awful.
I have tried a number of mechanical keyboards including Keychron (they, too, have Mac mapping and key tops out of the box) but my das Keyboard, although rather expensive has been a revolution. The only disadvantage is that it is wired but it has a USB C plug which is very nice (Keychron have a wireless version if you need one) I use this with my iMac so it is not an issue. I am afraid Apple keyboards and mice are a case of form over function for me. They look nice but are terrible to use (I use a Logitech MX Master mouse which is much more comfortable for me and it can be charged and used at the same time, unlIke the Apple mouse).
I find I get cramps with the Apple Magic keyboards as they have too short a stroke and low height that keeps my wrists at the wrong angle and a sort of crab posture in my hands. I hate them and my typing accuracy is awful.
I have tried a number of mechanical keyboards including Keychron (they, too, have Mac mapping and key tops out of the box) but my das Keyboard, although rather expensive has been a revolution. The only disadvantage is that it is wired but it has a USB C plug which is very nice (Keychron have a wireless version if you need one) I use this with my iMac so it is not an issue. I am afraid Apple keyboards and mice are a case of form over function for me. They look nice but are terrible to use (I use a Logitech MX Master mouse which is much more comfortable for me and it can be charged and used at the same time, unlIke the Apple mouse).
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Keyboard and mouse choice and preference will always be so much down to personal preference and expectation. My personal decision was that it was one aspect where other manufacturers had - and I think still have - much better options than the Apple product range.
In line with the previous post, my keyboard preference is also the Das Keyboard MacTigr. I do feel it is overpriced, but is well built and is comfortable to use for extended periods on a well arranged desk. So to me it’s a worthwhile investment. The wired connection would not have been my original preference, but has actually not been at all inconvenient, and indeed avoids all issues of wireless charging and connectivity.
In line with the previous post, my keyboard preference is also the Das Keyboard MacTigr. I do feel it is overpriced, but is well built and is comfortable to use for extended periods on a well arranged desk. So to me it’s a worthwhile investment. The wired connection would not have been my original preference, but has actually not been at all inconvenient, and indeed avoids all issues of wireless charging and connectivity.
Just bought a cheap mechanical keyboard by Rii. it's okay. Just some of the commands are hard to work out? example can't find@.....the old original Mac keys are still on Bluetooth. I am looking for layout instructions and commands to use fully without having to share other keys, {pain} got back to the company for help, and felt like I was responding to a robot. Look forward to advice on this matter.....Thank you.