What type of memory is used in Mac Studio?

[EugW]

This claims Mac Studio is running ECC:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501354376056639488

Is that true? Mac Studio owners can check by clicking on the Apple logo in the top left --> About This Mac --> System Report --> Memory. I would have guessed it is non-ECC memory.

Just as an example, I took a screen grab of the app for reference. As you can see for my 2017 MacBook Air, there is an entry for "ECC", which is "Disabled" on this machine.

 

[4sallypat]

ECC is data protection using parity check for servers - not used in regular machines.

My base Studio Max does not show any details, other than 32GB & LPDDR5:

 

[EugW]

ECC is data protection using parity check for servers - not used in regular machines.

My base Studio Max does not show any details, other than 32GB & LPDDR5:
View attachment 1981188

Thanks for the screengrab.

The Mac Pros use ECC, so it wouldn't be a complete stretch if its super high performance little brother did as well. I see Mac Studio being popular with scientists, where ECC may be useful. That said, I wouldn't have expected the Mac Studio to have ECC, but I ask this question just because one tech expert* online intimated that it did.

Interesting though that your System Report doesn't make any mention of ECC being enabled or disabled. I guess that may only apply to removable RAM.

*The tech expert in question is Charlie Demerjian, who is co-founder of SemiAccurate:

Charlie Demerjian

Charlie Demerjian is the founder of Stone Arch Networking Services and SemiAccurate.com. SemiAccurate.com is a technology news site; addressing hardware design, software selection, customization, s…

www.semiaccurate.com

He works in the computer industry, but OTOH, according to his bio he does not have any experience in chip or motherboard design, so he could just be wrong.

 

[bobcomer]

Apple would say if it had ECC, it's a selling point. I don't get my Studio until the 4th, so I can't say for sure, but it really doesn't make sense to have it on a relatively low end machine compared to the ones that need it. (the ones with massive amounts of RAM where the chance of an errant bit is higher.)

 

[EugW]

Yeah, I'll assume for now that he is simply wrong. The pricing of Mac Studio*, the lack of mention in the specs, and of course the lack of mention in System Report, all argue against ECC.

*Note that similarly priced Mac Pros in the past did use ECC, so that one is debatable.

Interesting though that your System Report doesn't make any mention of ECC being enabled or disabled. I guess that may only apply to removable RAM.

No, for my 2014 Mac mini with soldered RAM, it specifically mentions that ECC is disabled. So maybe this is an Intel vs Apple Silicon thing.

 

[bobcomer]

Yeah, I'll assume for now that he is simply wrong. The pricing of Mac Studio*, the lack of mention in the specs, and of course the lack of mention in System Report, all argue against ECC.

*Note that similarly priced Mac Pros in the past did use ECC, so that one is debatable.


No, for my 2014 Mac mini with soldered RAM, it specifically mentions that ECC is disabled. So maybe this is an Intel vs Apple Silicon thing.

True, the upper end Studio does encroach on the low end Pro. But you have to design for the whole line when you put it together, and ECC takes MB resources.

And yeah, my Intel Mac Mini says ECC Disabled too. One would infer that it has ECC, but it's disabled, that's bizarre. That normally isn't a thing in Windows Intel land. My Lenovo Windows 11 workstation desktop doesn't mention ECC at all.

 

[EugW]

True, the upper end Studio does encroach on the low end Pro. But you have to design for the whole line when you put it together, and ECC takes MB resources.

Actually, what I meant was that back in the day when Mac Pros started at a little over $2000, they used ECC. But that was a while back, when the $ was worth more than what it is worth now.

 

[Chancha]

ECC is only expensive in consumer space due to supply and demand, they can be priced similarly to regular RAM. I bought 2 sticks of 32GB DDR4 SODIMM server pulls from China just for something like $140 each.

I imagine if Apple used them they could source the chips similarly priced as regular RAM.

 

[Chancha]

btw the tweet says count the chips, is he implying there should be a N+1; I remember seeing the M1 Max delid and it only has 4. The M1 Ultra has not been delid yet but Apple’s PR images show 8.

 

[bobcomer]

ECC is only expensive in consumer space due to supply and demand, they can be priced similarly to regular RAM. I bought 2 sticks of 32GB DDR4 SODIMM server pulls from China just for something like $140 each.

I imagine if Apple used them they could source the chips similarly priced as regular RAM.

But does it make sense to pay for the hardware resources to use it? There are very few machines it would make a difference on. It's not really a consumer class need.

 

[Chancha]

But does it make sense to pay for the hardware resources to use it? There are very few machines it would make a difference on. It's not really a consumer class need.

With the target audience of the Studio I don’t think it needs to. Users who actually do use the machine for tasks that demand data integrity will know to avoid this machine. Then the main crowd which should be creatives, they don’t ever “need” ECC.

Also I reckon Apple will only focus this on the Mac Pro on the Silicon side to support this.

I mentioned ECC RAM not really costing much (in low density) was only to point out that the asking price of the Mac Studio does not need to reflect if it uses ECC or not, someone like Apple could use ECC and decide not not charge more and/or advertise it, if it helps the system.

 

[Homy]

It's LPDDR5-6400. Nothing been said about ECC from Apple or other sources like Anandtech.

 

[RobbieTT]

All Apple RAM hosted by their own imbedded silicon has a form of ECC.

ECC is a simple 'no brainer' when designing your own system architecture. Hosted by the system it costs nothing and is just another example of error correction that is ubiquitous in many other system components.

Non-ECC is only a thing because of an internal marketing decision by Intel to form an artificial split between server and consumer CPUs, even when the architecture is identical. Nobody else follows this path, including the likes of AMD.

If the ECC and the parity is hosted by the DIMMs themselves then clearly the hardware needs to be there, so in the case of AMD (as an example) the RAM purchased will decide if ECC is active or not. Heck, even my consumer Synology NAS with its low power and gutless CPU has ECC RAM.

Of course, once you get to DDR 5 and above you get a form of ECC as part of the specification but there are subtleties between transport and on-chip bit flip protection; not relevant for current Apple Silicon architecture but something we may need to be aware of when AS moves to the Mac Pro.

 

[ArkSingularity]

With the target audience of the Studio I don’t think it needs to. Users who actually do use the machine for tasks that demand data integrity will know to avoid this machine. Then the main crowd which should be creatives, they don’t ever “need” ECC.

Also I reckon Apple will only focus this on the Mac Pro on the Silicon side to support this.

I mentioned ECC RAM not really costing much (in low density) was only to point out that the asking price of the Mac Studio does not need to reflect if it uses ECC or not, someone like Apple could use ECC and decide not not charge more and/or advertise it, if it helps the system.

Yea, ECC does have a lot of benefits for the server/enterprise space, especially for servers that maintain years of uptime without restarts. Cosmic rays occasionally cause bitflips, and while those might not be too problematic for everyday folks writing emails and browsing the web, they can be much more problematic for enterprises running massive servers. (They don't happen particularly often, but they happen often enough for servers to have to worry about it. Bitflips caused by cosmic rays cause more tangible problems at scale)

That being said, I think that moving ECC to the consumer space might not be a bad idea. RAM has gotten much cheaper, and with RAM being manufactured more densely than before, more could go wrong. The cost of manufacturing it isn't actually that high. It's priced much higher in the market largely because those who purchase it are most often business customers, and they can afford to spend more.

 

[Chancha]

It has been speculated if not agreed that the culprit of ECC's slow pickup is due to Intel's segmentation where ECC only gets supported in Xeons or up. AMD has been changing that a bit, and Apple has just started getting away from Intel.

I think the asking price of the Ultra configs is seriously stepping into proper desktop workstation territory, it has a pretty good overlap into data-intensive workflows if the user ask for it. I can see Apple offering ECC support but it is apparent that the M1 basing on A14 is not ready for this, or let's say they got bigger checkboxes to deal with on the list.

Together with supporting socketed RAM modules and PCIe cards, maybe that's why the Mac Pro will base on the M2 generation where Apple can start anew. If the M2 "Extreme" does get ECC support, it is not wild to see it creeping into the Ultra or even the Max and Pro.