What's recommended, if I plan to upgrade HDD to SSD, buy with SSD or Fusion?

[Paratriplel]

I'm planning on getting an iMac as my next computer and I'm just a bit curious on what's easiest and "best" if I plan on upgrading it with at least an 1 TB SSD; should I get an iMac with an SSD or is it just as easy to upgrade it with a Fusion drive? Or course I'm hoping for the later since it's a lot cheaper to buy rg iMac with an HDD+SSD configuration but I'm confused since I've watched the Macsales video and it only shows one scenario.

If I have an SSD configuration can I just put one drive in it compared to fusion, were i guess I could have two SSD's in it? Maybe I'm not understanding it correctly so please correct and fill me in.

I've previously upgraded my 2012 Macbook Pro 15" with an SSD and also put in a second SSD in the superdrive with optibay and that went fine though I felt it was a bit scary and complicated. And that's the level I'm at kind of when you take into consideration how easy it is.

 

[chrfr]

I'm planning on getting an iMac as my next computer and I'm just a bit curious on what's easiest and "best" if I plan on upgrading it with at least an 1 TB SSD; should I get an iMac with an SSD or is it just as easy to upgrade it with a Fusion drive? Or course I'm hoping for the later since it's a lot cheaper to buy rg iMac with an HDD+SSD configuration but I'm confused since I've watched the Macsales video and it only shows one scenario.

If I have an SSD configuration can I just put one drive in it compared to fusion, were i guess I could have two SSD's in it? Maybe I'm not understanding it correctly so please correct and fill me in.

I've previously upgraded my 2012 Macbook Pro 15" with an SSD and also put in a second SSD in the superdrive with optibay and that went fine though I felt it was a bit scary and complicated. And that's the level I'm at kind of when you take into consideration how easy it is.

The factory SSD will be faster than what you can buy aftermarket. I would just get the iMac with the SSD to start with.

 

[Paratriplel]

I guess that’s an option but to get 1 TB of storage is really expensive compared to buying it off market.

Of course I care about speed but I'm sure whatever I can get aftermarket is enough for me, I'm using it for music production. Also some 3D modeling and some programming whenever I get a feeling for it.

Of course if that's what's recommended I might just have to save up some more cash but it's really a lot. In my country you can buy the base models of thel iMac 27" for $2 000 and the faster base models for $2 200.. While the cheapest iMac 27" costs $2 300 at Apple Store and as you know the stores aren't very happy with selling any other configurations than the base models. So if I were to upgrade the sad to a 500 GB or even 1 TB it would cost more than $2 500 (all currency conversions are just low estimates and probably even more expensive in reality.

But if it's really recommended to go that route and not opening the iMac up, sure I could save up the extra cash for it but I don't make more than a few houndred dollars a year and therefore I don't see myself in need of the fastest hardware but just looking for something good, reliable, quiet and well suited for me.

 

[chabig]

If you can, avoid the fusion drive complications and just get an SSD that you can afford. Then attach as much external storage as you want.

 

[Paratriplel]

Okay. But is it really worth ~500 extra dollars And even less storage (500 GB), or even more dollars?

I mean it seems like 30-60 minutes of work to change the HDD out to an SSD?

I do agree with you in most situations but since now the SSD still makes the computer ore more than 1/4 extra, I feel it might just be better to upgrade it.
But I realize my question was pretty confused.
What I meant was more like if I want to up a 1 TB disk inside an iMac, is it easier and more worth it to leave the Fusion drive inside untouched or should you upgrade it to 250 GB and then open the iMac and upgrade it / put in a 1TB disk.
Not sure if it's possible to leave a 250 GB disk inside and put a new disk in where apple has their HDD'S or if that "port" is removed.

 

[niteflyr]

Opening up an iMac and changing the drive is going to be more "scary and complicated" than your MBP upgrade was. Not to mention it will also void your warranty. If you absolutely cannot afford the SSD model, then buy the fusion model and get an external SSD and boot from that.

 

[velocityg4]

Opening up an iMac and changing the drive is going to be more "scary and complicated" than your MBP upgrade was. Not to mention it will also void your warranty. If you absolutely cannot afford the SSD model, then buy the fusion model and get an external SSD and boot from that.

Seconded

To add to that. It makes zero sense to even buy a new one if you're going to open it up. The warranty will be null and void. Your just spending more for a computer with no factory warranty at that point. Plus risking the destruction of an expensive screen.

 

[Paratriplel]

Not sure I'll buy a new one. We'll see what the next upgrade is, if it has the T2 chip and the audio issues aren't resolved om going for a second hand 2019 model and even before the refresh I might do that (buying second hand) but of course voiding warranty isn't fun but as long as I can put t all together and the issue isn't because of that I opened it up I don't see any issues with that according to Whah I've read / heard...

But yeah of course it's better to buy the storage I need but as you know with apple it is crazy expensive and living in Sweden you cannot even imagine how expensive it is.

But we'll see I might just save up the cash for it and get the storage I need I'm just exploring my options and that would have been a huge money saver to add the storage myself but I can be satisfied with just adding ram.

Need to get my hands on an iMac 2019 and see how loud it gets. Mostly using it for music production and having the computer in my one room studio means it cannot really go off sounding like am airplane as KY Macbook Pro 2015 does (my 2012 is much more quieter, or was now it's also a bit loud when being pushed).

Thanks for your advice, I believe you've convinced me!

But what if I bought a second hand iMac. What model / year should I go for and what spec/configuration?
If I want 1 TB of space in it and can't find one that has that, should I try to find an SSD configuration or is fusion drive "better and easier" to upgrade?
Hope you get my question.

 

[iluvmacs99]

Not sure I'll buy a new one. We'll see what the next upgrade is, if it has the T2 chip and the audio issues aren't resolved om going for a second hand 2019 model and even before the refresh I might do that (buying second hand) but of course voiding warranty isn't fun but as long as I can put t all together and the issue isn't because of that I opened it up I don't see any issues with that according to Whah I've read / heard...

But yeah of course it's better to buy the storage I need but as you know with apple it is crazy expensive and living in Sweden you cannot even imagine how expensive it is.

But we'll see I might just save up the cash for it and get the storage I need I'm just exploring my options and that would have been a huge money saver to add the storage myself but I can be satisfied with just adding ram.

Need to get my hands on an iMac 2019 and see how loud it gets. Mostly using it for music production and having the computer in my one room studio means it cannot really go off sounding like am airplane as KY Macbook Pro 2015 does (my 2012 is much more quieter, or was now it's also a bit loud when being pushed).

Thanks for your advice, I believe you've convinced me!

But what if I bought a second hand iMac. What model / year should I go for and what spec/configuration?
If I want 1 TB of space in it and can't find one that has that, should I try to find an SSD configuration or is fusion drive "better and easier" to upgrade?
Hope you get my question.

First of all, it is "NOT" at all easy to upgrade the later iMacs as they are basically not designed to be super easy to be serviceable. If you're not careful, you can break the screen, then you are going to be looking at a new iMac as Apple does not sell replacement screens at least as forthcoming. Even the new screens are just half the cost of the new computer. The screens you see on eBay were taken off broken iMacs. So plan on getting an iMac based on your "final" needs. If you need to get a 1TB SSD, have that put in when you get the machine. You can always add external storage via Thunderbolt. They are fast enough.

Another thing about iMacs is that, they are just not easy to clean internally. Depending on how dusty your place is, these iMacs do get clogged up with dust. And when they do, the fans will no longer spin and the machine will overheat. Most of the time, the GPU will go first and then eventually the logic board. So the less moving parts in the iMac the better and less heat it generates.

 

[Paratriplel]

This is just a thought experiment, to see how low I can go with my cash. I'll probably go with an 512 SSD unless Apple lowers the upgrade prices a bit for an 1 TB which I feel they might do seeing at were slowly going into 2020 and HDD'S are really no longer something you out inside a computer but who knows.... I do believe Apple has realized the value if having Mac customers lately, at least pro Mac customers, not sure if they'll let it spill over to the usual iMac's though, we'll see!


I wouldn't say my place is that dusty, compared to a lot of other people's places I see my own place as above normal and clean it very regularly but I know that there small dust particles isn't something you really can protect yourself from unless you're in a special built environment, I'd like a new project though and feel like opening an older iMac and trying to make it run perfect and fine would be nice. Though I don't see myself opening a newly purchased iMac for over $2k up and I apprichiate you from warning me for going that route even if I believe it could just go fine it I had some luck. Guess I'll just save in on some RAM instead.

 

[AL2TEACH]

Maybe, I'm not understanding something but
I've had this iMac for 4 years now and have never had a problem with the 1TB Fusion drive. I guess, I'm not getting what you think a SSD will do for you that would justify the added cost.

 

[||\||]

Need to get my hands on an iMac 2019 and see how loud it gets. Mostly using it for music production and having the computer in my one room studio means it cannot really go off sounding like am airplane as KY Macbook Pro 2015 does (my 2012 is much more quieter, or was now it's also a bit loud when being pushed).

If you are doing any kind of production work (sound, video, photo or imaging), avoid the fusion drive. It’s just too slow. Fusion drives were designed for internet use or maybe some office apps. Thunderbolt 3 has pretty much removed to need to open up Macs for internal SATA drive swaps. USB 3.1 and TB3 will be at least as fast as an internal SATA drive. Get the biggest internal SSD you can afford, then buy external storage to fill out the balance of your needs.

 

[Paratriplel]

Yes I'd guess I could afford a 512 GB configuration it's not really about affording but now that I really dislike the idea of paying 350 euros more for 512 GB when I could get a fast enough 512 drive for less than 100 euros especially since it's an upgrade from a 1 TB Fusion drive (120 dollars for the upgrade in the highest base model iMac). If there's a chance to not pay 200 dollars less and get an 1 TB SSD and take out the HDD and out in an external chassis I do feel I'd be tempted to go that way but mostly because of the absurdum but of course also because of cost.

I do agree with you that it's better to not void the warranty and get the drive I need / afford directly from Apple but still not like these crazy apple upgrade prices. I just wish you could buy these from cheaper stores.
It's crazy that just between the base models (which costs 1880 euros in the cheapest store and 2180 euro on the Apple Store) the cost difference is 300 euros for the lowest base model, so I'd pay somewhere around 630 euros more, for the base model with 512 GB, a total of 2600 euros instead of 2000 euros if upgrading it myself when buying the base model with 512 GB config from Apple in my country.
For the base top model it's 2350 euros, so roughly 2460 if I upgraded it to 512 GB, while at Apple Store it is 2750 euros and 2850 euros for 1TB config (just slightly cheaper for the 512 so I just use the 1 TB to make my point).
So difference is 400 euros for base models and 390 euros difference for the 512 upgrade and in my calculations I used the 1 TB upgrade for the upgrade I do myself, if I'd ask apple to do it the iMac would cost 3050 euros and the difference would be 590 euros.

That's a lot of money for me and that's why I think it's absurd of apple to have started solder the components to their computers so that you can't upgrade them yourself. Because it wasn't what I signed up on when I entered the Apple ecosystem 10+ years ago but I understand things change but this is something that is only good for Apple and makes replacing things that have broke down really expensive since you need to change things that aren't broken such as the motherboard very un-ecofriendly.

I have seen that Apple authorized repair shops have offered this upgrade though but it usually cost too much to be worth it but it's a chance to upgrade it if you bought something that is too small.

I'm going to start looking into Linux DAWs but I'm giving Apple one last chance to a year from now. They seem to be changing their route to the right track but I'm not convinced, we'll see and it's not all about the soldering it can stay if I know the computer won't break down for at least 5 years but preferably 10 years and if Apple said they'll fix it for free, offering an extended warranty for something like 5 years I'd trust them, not that I'm expecting it... Though it would be nice to know they are as confident in their products that they would do something like that. Well all good things end but I really hope apple is an exception because I really like them and their products but if I find an Linux substitute for Logic Pro, I'm sure I'd do just fine with whatever DAW I choose since I just record hardware gear (and would prefer no computer involved at all) but you know.

Anyway I guess I'll just have to swallow my pride and buy an iMac in a couple of months with upgraded SSD and hopefully an update has happens that make it possible to upgrade to 1TB for less than 200 euros but I know.. It's Apple.


Edit: and yes I do production work with sound / music so speed is important to me but I haven't had any issues with my current Macbook Pro 15 " 2015 except for the CPU when using a lot of plugins. The 3D modeling has gone fine but I'm not doing anything advanced yet.

 

[Strelok]

You can always boot from an external SSD, ideally with TB3 but that can get expensive so just regular USB-C should be fine.

 

[||\||]

Edit: and yes I do production work with sound / music so speed is important to me but I haven't had any issues with my current Macbook Pro 15 " 2015 except for the CPU when using a lot of plugins. The 3D modeling has gone fine but I'm not doing anything advanced yet.

The 2015 MBP has a very fast SSD inside, not a fusion drive. If you are already used to MBP speeds, a fusion drive will likely feel slow.

Consider buying refurbished if cost is an issue. My refurb came looking as new with about 20 terabytes of data written to it.

 

[Paratriplel]

Yes I never planned to use a fusion drive but to replace it with an SSD if I got an iMac with a fusion drive. Just to clear things out .

Though I must point out that I believe that a fusion drive is just fine when for music production but of course it will be a bit slower and you'll probably get a couple of disk overdrive errors.


I'd love buying an refurb but apple isn't selling those here, believe they've started selling refurbished iPhones though but no Macs yet. Will either just save up the cash, sell an instrument or buy a used iMac (probably after the next upgrade just to see what Apple has brought in) from someone that seems to have taken care of it but maybe not used it that much.
It's not that much extra cash but it's just the principle that makes me very unhappy about giving apple the extra money. If it wasn't as much as it is and a more fair amount or such.

 

[||\||]

Yes I never planned to use a fusion drive but to replace it with an SSD if I got an iMac with a fusion drive. Just to clear things out .

I am planning some surgery on my 2015 fusion drive iMac this weekend. I can’t speak to the ease of replacing the drive right now, but I will soon find out.

Anecdotally, I tried to save money back in 2015 by buying the fusion model with plans to boot externally (did for four years) or replace the internal drive (will soon). After receiving the unit and shopping for drives, the net savings was minimal to nonexistent. Not worth the time or effort. I feel like I should have just bought the SSD unit I really wanted. YMMV, and this might not be the case for current 512GB storage. Older model iMacs are still very capable machines. Might be worth considering.

 

[Paratriplel]

I couldn’t find an answer so I figured that I’d ask her and revive this thread because I wasn’t really clear on this.

If you buy an iMac 2015, 2017 or 2019 could to then do an upgrade from a small 256 GB SSD to a larger one?

Also is it possible to add a second SSD to such a computer where the HDD would have been if it was a fusion drive?

What would be the speed difference between an iMac with Apple SSD, let’s assume the SSD put in it will be a either a 512 GB or 1 TB in the $250-$300 budget.

Just asking in theory, planning to buy a new 512 SSD CTO iMac but if cost is half and it’s possible it’s tempting of course.

 

[barnyard]

SSD 100%

 

[Paratriplel]

You mean buying one from the start at a high capacity or was your answer related to my last question, that it’s better to buy a second hand iMac with pre installed SSD even if it is a small capacity, and then change it out yourself / leave it at at a service store to switch from the small capacity to a bigger sized one and the pre installed iMac will have better speeds than if you did it with a fusion drive iMac?

I would love some numbers/data and see how much it differs, figures my old 2012 MacBook Pro feels just as fast for me as my 2015 MBP 15” when I had an SSD put into the HDD slot and another in an Optibay but I might not use functions etc that lets you notice it’s speed difference since I mostly work with audio (no video) and the only thing I‘ve noticed was that I did get disk overload error a couple of times more rare now than I did before on that computer.

 

[velocityg4]

I couldn’t find an answer so I figured that I’d ask her and revive this thread because I wasn’t really clear on this.

If you buy an iMac 2015, 2017 or 2019 could to then do an upgrade from a small 256 GB SSD to a larger one?

Also is it possible to add a second SSD to such a computer where the HDD would have been if it was a fusion drive?

What would be the speed difference between an iMac with Apple SSD, let’s assume the SSD put in it will be a either a 512 GB or 1 TB in the $250-$300 budget.

Just asking in theory, planning to buy a new 512 SSD CTO iMac but if cost is half and it’s possible it’s tempting of course.

Yes it is possible to do both a blade and 2.5" SSD.

27-Inch iMac SSD Upgrade Kit for 2013 - 2019 iMac Models

Upgrade your iMac 27" (Late 2013-2019) storage with an OWC SSD. Easy DIY installation and significant performance gains. Find your compatible SSD today!

eshop.macsales.com

You mean buying one from the start at a high capacity or was your answer related to my last question, that it’s better to buy a second hand iMac with pre installed SSD even if it is a small capacity, and then change it out yourself / leave it at at a service store to switch from the small capacity to a bigger sized one and the pre installed iMac will have better speeds than if you did it with a fusion drive iMac?

I would love some numbers/data and see how much it differs, figures my old 2012 MacBook Pro feels just as fast for me as my 2015 MBP 15” when I had an SSD put into the HDD slot and another in an Optibay but I might not use functions etc that lets you notice it’s speed difference since I mostly work with audio (no video) and the only thing I‘ve noticed was that I did get disk overload error a couple of times more rare now than I did before on that computer.

People look too much at the benchmark numbers between SSD. Tomshardware has a fairly extensive number of articles with detailed testing. Performance differences noticeable to the user only really appear in tasks requiring massive IOPS with high queue depths or humongous (multi-gigabyte) files. Something a single user can't normally accomplish. Except with some highly specialized workloads.

Now if you were running a database server with numerous users connecting over a fiber optic network. You'd really notice the difference between NVMe models. You'd also notice the difference if you often transfer humongous files to a high speed NAS over a very high speed fiber optic connection or a high speed RAID connected via Thunderbolt.

Between NVMe and SATA SSD. There is some measurable difference. For the most part it's quite small. For most users the difference between a HDD and cheap junk model SSD is greater than than junk SSD and high end NVMe.

Tomshardware still does SSD benchmarks but they aren't nearly so in depth on real world tests as the earlier articles. I guess they were tired of showing Photoshop, Premiere, &c with nearly the same numbers. With the only appreciable difference being the jump from a high end SATA model to a low end NVMe. Actually, the real world tests were still benchmarks which used multiple applications. They still do it but only show the aggregate score rather than a per application breakdown.

If you want to dig through them you can. You'll have to go back to the Samsung 970 Evo review for a per application breakdown.

Storage Reviews, Analysis and Buying Guides | Tom's Hardware

Storage reviews, news and features, created for the hardcore PC enthusiast by the experts at Tom's Hardware.

www.tomshardware.com

I have read that audio production can use high IOPS but the software gets a low queue depth. There'd still be an advantage for NVMe over SATA (AHCI). Not as drastic as a high queue depth. That's where NVMe really shines and differences between low and high end becomes heavily apparent. That's likely where the disk overload error was popping up between the two Macbooks is the IOPS. I doubt audio would saturate the sequential read/write of an SATA SSD.

 

[Paratriplel]

velocityg4: thanks for clearing things out for me, I appreciate it a lot!

If I had gotten the info earlier I’d probably have purchased an iMac and some the upgrade but now I’ve been fairly comfortable with paying Apple for the upgrade, with some student discount it’s like a $150 difference if we assume that the “special deal” iMacs has the same cost for upgrading to an 512 SSD. But it’s nice to know because I would actually be able to upgrade the disk if I need more space, or I guess we’ll see about that but you know.

Anyway thanks again! Interesting facts that few people mention when they enter the thread and writes about NVMs etc.

 

[Lankyman]

This review is well worth a watch. Especially given the tasks it is being used for.

 

[Paratriplel]

Nicke to ser eveything works for him. Guess I’m damage after first reading about the people getting the maxed out ones and still haven’t got enough power and seeing all these CTO-ordered iMac’s and MacBook Pro’s.

I’m not goding to use it for that power demanding tasks but my MacBook Pro from 2015 has really started getting really slow all of a sudden. almost as if Apple pushed an update with the last Sierra update telling it to so 20 background tasks nonstop, the fan has been going for the minimum amount of demanding tasks since I first got it in 2016 and Apple never bothered to solve it.
Though once they suggested that I’d bring it in to a hardware technician and offered me to have it checked for free (this was about the sudden restart issue though) even though service was out and no AppleCare+ but I said I’ll give it a go a couple more weeks and see I can figure it out, next time I call I talk to a total ***** that made fun of me “for thinking I know more about Apple products than they do”, which wasn’t what I said but I stated some things and he was really rude from the start from the call and said I was ready to have it checked out by a hardware technician but wanted to make sure they understood this issue came random when the computer was going to sleep (a function I never learned how to turn off without using 3rd party applications) and be said he would not let me go drop it off at a technician and it’s isn’t matter that me and the other Apple support has been agreeing about it the last time I was in contact with them.

So I really have a bad taste in my mouth for Apple after this because he was so rude (here Apple hires 18-19 year olds going in school or just quitter school, so their level of expertise is really not balanced and they doesn’t seem to be able to think logically very well but just know how to aeaedh their knowledge bank and If they doesn’t listen you could have to go through a bunch of treats that aren’t relevant in any way but whatever rocks your boat Apple...
Wopps.. side story..