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What's The Practical Difference Between Time Machine & Carbon Copy Cloner?

F

F-Train

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Original poster
Apr 22, 2015
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NYC & Newfoundland
I have a question about the practical difference between these applications in the following circumstances:

  1. I use my 2018 Mac mini as a workspace. I mostly need to back up my applications and settings. Almost all of my data, both original files and backups, is on external drives;
  2. I only need current backups, not the ability to recover data from last week let alone last month. The main applications that I use already make backups of work in progress, also to external drives, over the course of a project. I don't need more.
  3. I don't need a bootable backup. If my computer dies, I'll just get a new one at one of the several Apple stores in my immediate area.
Currently, I use Time Machine to make a backup of my internal drive to a relatively small partition on a hard disk drive. I do these manually once a day because, as stated, I don't need historical data. I am also using Carbon Copy Cloner to make a bootable clone of the drive to an APFS volume on an external SSD, again once a day. I have CCC Safety Net off because I don't need it.

I'm trying to decide if there is any point, apart from redundancy, to maintain both backups. What, if any, practical difference is there between them if my computer dies and I need to use the backup to set up a new computer? Is either of them the "better" choice?

Thanks
.
 
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I can't speak to the specifics of CCC because I don't use it.

If all you want is a local daily backup of your internal drive, personally I'd just use Time Machine and have it backup to an external disk/partition that's roughly the size of the internal disk.

It'll automatically prune old backups when there's not enough free space.

It's differential by nature, so it only copies what's changed, and thus (particularly with stuff like apps and user settings that don't change much) the backups will be very fast, compared to making a complete clone every day.

If you really only want it to run once per day, https://staff.eecis.udel.edu/docs/timemachine/frequency/ has details of how you can achieve this via several methods.
 
F-Train said:
  1. I use my 2018 Mac mini as a workspace. I mostly need to back up my applications and settings. Almost all of my data, both original files and backups, is on external drives;
  2. I only need current backups, not the ability to recover data from last week let alone last month. The main applications that I use already make backups of work in progress, also to external drives, over the course of a project. I don't need more.
  3. I don't need a bootable backup. If my computer dies, I'll just get a new one at one of the several Apple stores in my immediate area.
What, if any, practical difference is there between them if my computer dies and I need to use the backup to set up a new computer? Is either of them the "better" choice?
.
Click to expand...
I use both, in a similar setup. Some things to consider:
- CCC backup, as long as set up right, has the advantage of being bootable to get you still working in the event that the HDD/SSD in your computer idea but the machine otherwise works. You just boot up from the external drive and carry on (especially if SSD speed).
- I like having a TM backup too precisely because it has the ability to recover historic versions of files/deleted, I know you said you don’t want that but I’ve found it handy on occasion. I know CCC does that with safety net, but TM interface is slicker to recover.
- TM is nice because it seamlessly backs up several drives, rather than having to set up multiple clone jobs per drive
- I use CCC for automated daily backups, no need to do it manually ; this is in my experience the weakest link, humans remembering to do something, why have the hassle? Use automation
- In the event of a HDD/SSD main drive fail (or fail of a data drive) I’ve always found myself relying on the CCC backup and just to a clone back to the new replacement drive, quickest method
- Faced with a new computer migration, and given you have most data on external separate drives anyway, I tend to set things up from scratch to avoid any pollution of old settings and general crud from prior systems (which tend to have been upgraded OSs over multiple versions, full of old stuff I don’t care about now etc). Cleaner, less prone to config confusion. But if you don’t want the hassle of that, I would use Migration Assistant or recover from TM backup as Apple at least tries to restore all your apps, config, user data etc.
Just my experience, YMMV, hope that helps.
 
Stephen.R said:
If all you want is a local daily backup of your internal drive, personally I'd just use Time Machine and have it backup to an external disk/partition that's roughly the size of the internal disk.

If you really only want it to run once per day, https://staff.eecis.udel.edu/docs/timemachine/frequency/ has details of how you can achieve this via several methods.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much for that University of Delaware page. I'll be using it.

My 2018 mini has a 512GB internal drive and my Time Machine partition is 200GB. That is more than four times the data, including applications, system, "Other" and certain data files that I want on the internal drive, on my computer. I'm considering cutting it to 150GB, which would still give me many days of historical backup.

The reason that I don't want hourly backups is that I can have several hundred GB of data on the internal drive when I'm working. The applications that I use do their own backups to an external drive, which is also backed up for redundancy. I don't need Time Machine to make yet more backups. Once at the end of the day, when I've cleared all the working data from my internal drive, is fine.
 
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F-Train said:
I'm trying to decide if there is any point, apart from redundancy, to maintain both backups.
Click to expand...

As long as you have a 3-2-1 backup strategy it is up to you. But if you are going to get rid of one ditch time machine. It is too unreliable, fails just when you need it. I've had multiple TM restores fail multiple times.
 
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wardie said:
CCC backup, as long as set up right, has the advantage of being bootable to get you still working ... Faced with a new computer migration, and given you have most data on external separate drives anyway, I tend to set things up from scratch ... But if you don’t want the hassle of that,I would use Migration Assistant or recover from TM backup as Apple at least tries to restore all your apps, config, user data etc.
Click to expand...

I do a new install at least once a year anyway, so your first suggestion is a real option. I've tested three of the leading "cleaner" apps. They don't come close to a new install when it comes to addressing "Other", and burgeoning "Other" really bugs me :)

As a practical matter, I don't see myself booting from a backup. Where I am, there are 11 Apple stores plus a few competent independent repairers. If this computer fails, in whole or in part, the first thing that I'm going to do is take it in to be diagnosed and fixed or replaced. I have two older Macs and an iPad for routine stuff. My world isn't going to end if I'm without this computer, or a replacement, for a few hours or days.
 
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F-Train said:
The reason that I don't want hourly backups is that I can have several hundred GB of data on the internal drive when I'm working.
Click to expand...
I understand. If you use a specific location for that data (or could use a specific location), you can just exclude that from TM.

Or, of course you can choose to do it manually too (or just set it for once a day later after you've finished work if you leave the machine on).
 
It all depends on how valuable your time is and how quickly you need to be able to get back to work after a failure. A clone would let you get back to work in minutes while setting up a new computer and recovering files from a backup will easily take a full day.

I use the triple backup method myself (clone, incremental and remote):
- Clone manually using SuperDuper approx 1x week, allows me to have a bootable drive with most of my work ready in case of a failure.
- Incremental backup using Time Machine runs continuously. It would allow me to recover any file created between the last clone and the failure. It also protects me from user error like accidentally flattening a Photoshop file or overwriting a file.
- Remote backup using Crashplan, in case my computer and backup are physically destroyed. It's also allowed me to retrieve some files from my desktop computer backup while on vacation.

I recommend continuing what you're doing, but make Time Machine run continuously to a dedicated drive (not a partition). A NAS with WD Red drive is designed for that type of use.
 
Stephen.R said:
The same argument could be applied to the time required to manually make a full clone every n days or weeks.
Click to expand...
Literally 5 seconds.

I programmed SuperDuper to do a "smart update" of the clone to run automatically when the back-up disk is connected. Since I keep it connected at all time, all I do is flip a switch turn the drive on and walk away (or continue working). When the backup is complete, I unmount the drive and turn it off.
 
To be harsh, CCC and SuperDuper! work every time. Time machine always goes wrong after several months, and does not tell you it's having problems until things are already critical. I use TM for short term hourly backups, when I'm working on a big project. Otherwise, not with a ten foot pole.
 
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Partron22 said:
To be harsh, CCC and SuperDuper! work every time. Time machine always goes wrong after several months, and does not tell you it's having problems until things are already critical. I use TM for short term hourly backups, when I'm working on a big project. Otherwise, not with a ten foot pole.
Click to expand...

I agree, Time Machine can seem to run fine for years in the background with no problems - but when you really need the complete back up - things can be missing, mis-configured. A friend of mine lost his entire music library, he thought the files was backed up on time machine - but there were only links to the files - the files were gone because he sold his iMac and wiped it clean before the sale - probably a user error on his part

I've had my own issues (with Time Machine) not as catastrophic - missing files on a back up of a dead HDD drive - luckily was able to get the files back with "Data Rescue" recovery software at the time

I don't use time machine at all - easy enough to make multiple back ups with CCC if needed
 
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