When to upgrade the Mac, or how to tell end-of-life?

[mavidaru]

So, my work Mac is getting a bit long in the tooth, gettin' a little sludgy, but it still generally runs well, I've just come to the determination recently while trying to sell outdated computers that it's best to sell a computer when I've learned of its operating system's end-of-life/support date, so that I can maximize value from usage of the computer as well as money back from the sale. Note that while it's maybe not the most ethical thing to do, a lot of people are willing to use old/outdated computers just fine, and throwing away computers when they're expired I feel is very unethical.

Anyway, I'm trying to figure out end-of-life on a MacBook 2019 16-inch... It's a bit rough already trying to figure out which exact Mac model a Mac is (Apple should make this easier, really), but when I do, I'd like to find a support page that I can look up to view when an end-of-life date is set (whether it's based on upgrades stopping, or whatever necessary component not being supported), or I'd like to get a notification for when end-of-life has been announced for the device.

I've heard that Apple's plan is to support MacBooks for like 5 years from initial production, but I'm unclear on that, not finding anything specific, and so I don't know when/how to plan for selling it when its unsupported date is known.

 

[redheeler]

Apple's typical support cycle is 7 years from the original date of introduction for major MacOS releases (there have been some exceptions, and thanks to the switch to M1 I'm worried the latest Intels may get 1-2 years less), extended by 3 of security updates. Your 2019 16" as of now is still inside both windows.

 

[KaliYoni]

I'd like to find a support page that I can look up to view when an end-of-life date is set (whether it's based on upgrades stopping, or whatever necessary component not being supported), or I'd like to get a notification for when end-of-life has been announced for the device.

I've heard that Apple's plan is to support MacBooks for like 5 years from initial production, but I'm unclear on that, not finding anything specific, and so I don't know when/how to plan for selling it when its unsupported date is known.

Whenever I want to learn about the inner workings of macOS, I turn to The Eclectic Light Company. Many Mac troubleshooting sites and developers recommend the site. I regard ELC to more credible and better informed than YouTube videos and social media posts from "influencers".

For example:
"As far as macOS goes, everyone will tell you that Apple supports the current version for about a year before it’s replaced by a new major release, then provides two years of security updates for it. The strange thing about that is Apple doesn’t seem to have committed that to writing, and I’ve searched long and hard for its official policy on many occasions. This article sets out what Apple has actually done over the last few years, from OS X Mavericks onwards."

How long does Apple support macOS?

Unofficially, each major version of macOS gets a year’s full support, with bug and security fixes, then 2 years of security updates. Is that how it works?

eclecticlight.co

 

[davidlv]

So, my work Mac is getting a bit long in the tooth, gettin' a little sludgy, but it still generally runs well, I've just come to the determination recently while trying to sell outdated computers that it's best to sell a computer when I've learned of its operating system's end-of-life/support date, so that I can maximize value from usage of the computer as well as money back from the sale. Note that while it's maybe not the most ethical thing to do, a lot of people are willing to use old/outdated computers just fine, and throwing away computers when they're expired I feel is very unethical.

Anyway, I'm trying to figure out end-of-life on a MacBook 2019 16-inch... It's a bit rough already trying to figure out which exact Mac model a Mac is (Apple should make this easier, really), but when I do, I'd like to find a support page that I can look up to view when an end-of-life date is set (whether it's based on upgrades stopping, or whatever necessary component not being supported), or I'd like to get a notification for when end-of-life has been announced for the device.

I've heard that Apple's plan is to support MacBooks for like 5 years from initial production, but I'm unclear on that, not finding anything specific, and so I don't know when/how to plan for selling it when its unsupported date is known.

Ignoring the issue of "end-of-life", check out the free Mactracker on the Apple App Store. It will show you the details of every Mac made.
As someone noted, the Intel Macs are obviously going to be treated as if they are end-of-life as Apple moves on with it's M chips. Personally, after getting a 13" M2 MBA, it is very hard to fire up the older Intel iMac. Even though it can be used to do anything I need to do, the difference in "wait" time is so obvious. In addition, the keyboard on the MBA is simply the best, and despite the limited screen size, this computer never slows me down. I believe it will go down in the Mac history book as one of the best Macs made. Highly recommended.

 

[mavidaru]

Apple's typical support cycle is 7 years from the original date of introduction for major MacOS releases (there have been some exceptions, and thanks to the switch to M1 I'm worried the latest Intels may get 1-2 years less), extended by 3 of security updates. Your 2019 16" as of now is still inside both windows.

OK that's nice to know from some person on a forum but that's not something for me to check at a random time when the policy may have changed for a particular model or type of device.

I was looking for a place to check the policy at any time from an official source and preferably get a notification when a model will stop being supported.

 

[redheeler]

OK that's nice to know from some person on a forum but that's not something for me to check at a random time when the policy may have changed for a particular model or type of device.

I was looking for a place to check the policy at any time from an official source and preferably get a notification when a model will stop being supported.

For an official source, Apple lists the system requirements for each new release of MacOS. Here is the page for Ventura. Apple does not provide support lifespans or anything like that officially, but tends to stick to the rough pattern I detailed.

There are plenty of unofficial sources with more detailed information about a specific Mac model such as EveryMac, AppleDB, and Mactracker. AppleDB is particularly good at listing out all the supported software versions for a Mac.

edit: This isn't as clear as it should be, partly because Apple remains so vague with official information on MacOS support. Also, a Mac isn't necessarily EOL if it isn't supported by a major MacOS release. You can keep using it safely as long as it receives security updates; the only caveat being that you may lose the ability to run the latest versions of some some apps which may or may not be a problem for you.

 

[mavidaru]

I turn to The Eclectic Light Company

That appears to be a blog site, not a site showing a page of up-to-date end-of-life dates for MacBooks. Am I misunderstanding the site? Were you saying I should subscribe to their blog and see if any of the emails mention new Mac EOLs?

Apple supports the current version for about a year before it’s replaced by a new major release

Where's that written other than in this forum thread?

Mactracker on the Apple App Store

I could put that on my iPad I guess, but the only thing I'm seeing with it about EOL dates is a mention of warranty tracking... and I don't think those two things are the same with Apple. Can you clarify what you meant if I'm not understanding?

the Intel Macs are obviously going to be treated as if they are end-of-life as Apple moves on with it's M chips

Um, OK, that's nice to learn I guess, maybe I'm not that educated on Apple to just know this. This seems kind of like tribal knowledge. I'm just looking for a place that I can check to view Apple device EOL or get a notification for it. If that means I have to swing really broadly and hunt things down every quarter or sift through blogroll notifications, OK, I guess I can try that.

 

[mavidaru]

Maybe I need to clarify more:

So, I can see specs on my model here: MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2019) - Technical Specifications

However, it doesn't mention EOL of anything there.

There's a link however - named Learn more about latest operating system - which goes to a page titled "macOS Support", which seems like I'm getting somewhere (!), but it just shows the latest version details (Ventura at the moment) and looks more like a marketing landing page than anything. I'm not seeing anything about EOL for even that version of macOS. Is there a page that shows EOL for the different major macOS versions that I missed? I'll be disappointed in Apple if it's just tribal knowledge we could all be wrong on.

A link on that page under the User Guide section named Browse the guide goes to a macOS User Guide page, which just goes back to the macOS Support page... so, I've officially hit a circular reference in my hunt 😆

I don't know why this isn't easier to find. Microsoft shows EOL for different Windows versions. Why's Apple afraid to show theirs?

OK so I searched on Google and found this: Apple macOS | endoflife.date - but it doesn't seem to show EOL for supported products... so, I'm left to gather that Apple is afraid to publish those.

 

[chown33]

Here is Apple's vintage and obsolete products list:

Obtaining service for your Apple product after an expired warranty - Apple Support

Learn about your options for getting service and parts for Apple devices that are past their warranty period.

support.apple.com

In general, Apple doesn't state exactly when a particular product will become vintage or obsolete until it happens. However, the above page does state a range:

Products are considered vintage when Apple stopped distributing them for sale more than 5 and less than 7 years ago.

There's a similar statement about what makes a product obsolete.

Additions to the vintage and obsolete lists often appear at MacRumors and other sites, for example:

Apple Adds Eight More Macs to Vintage Products List

As expected, Apple today updated its vintage products list with eight more MacBook, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and iMac models released in 2015 and...

www.macrumors.com

You could do a search of MR for articles in the News section that have "vintage" or "obsolete" in the title to see what the history of that coverage looks like.

 

[Boyd01]

I was just reading this article yesterday. It's (obviously) not an official Apple document but might provide some insight. At the end of the article they offer three possible scenarios and discuss the pros and cons of each...

How long will the last Intel Macs be supported? macOS Sonoma gives us some hints

Nearly 20 years of data show how Intel Macs are faring as Apple switches chips.

arstechnica.com

 

[MacCheetah3]

What @chown33 said, and I second Mactracker.

‎Mactracker

‎Mactracker provides detailed information on every Apple Macintosh, iPod, iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch ever made, including items such as processor speed, memory, graphic cards, supported OS versions, price, storage, and expansion options. Also included is information on early Apple systems...

apps.apple.com

It's a bit rough already trying to figure out which exact Mac model a Mac is (Apple should make this easier, really)

Mactracker can help with that as well:

 

[Yebubbleman]

So, my work Mac is getting a bit long in the tooth, gettin' a little sludgy, but it still generally runs well, I've just come to the determination recently while trying to sell outdated computers that it's best to sell a computer when I've learned of its operating system's end-of-life/support date, so that I can maximize value from usage of the computer as well as money back from the sale. Note that while it's maybe not the most ethical thing to do, a lot of people are willing to use old/outdated computers just fine, and throwing away computers when they're expired I feel is very unethical.

Anyway, I'm trying to figure out end-of-life on a MacBook 2019 16-inch... It's a bit rough already trying to figure out which exact Mac model a Mac is (Apple should make this easier, really), but when I do, I'd like to find a support page that I can look up to view when an end-of-life date is set (whether it's based on upgrades stopping, or whatever necessary component not being supported), or I'd like to get a notification for when end-of-life has been announced for the device.

I've heard that Apple's plan is to support MacBooks for like 5 years from initial production, but I'm unclear on that, not finding anything specific, and so I don't know when/how to plan for selling it when its unsupported date is known.

The MacBook Pro model you have is a "MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2019)". It carries the model identifier of MacBookPro16,1 or MacBookPro16,4 depending on what configuration you bought.

The earliest version of macOS that it can run is macOS 10.15.1 Catalina and it is, so far, slated to run macOS 14.x.y Sonoma through at least NEXT fall. Apple does not have a published "End of Support" date for its Macs in the way that Microsoft does with its software. It'd be amazing if they did, but they do not.

That all being said, at Apple's current rate of discontinuing Macs, it's highly likely that this Mac will be supported to run macOS 15 and possibly macOS 16 as well. I would guess that macOS 16 will be the final version to support this Mac, if not all Intel Macs. But I could totally be wrong. This article has more intelligent statistics-based conjecture than I can conjure: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...till-getting-fewer-updates-than-they-used-to/

Once your Mac can no longer run the latest version of macOS, the version it's on will still have two more years of important security updates and will still be perfectly safe to use. Once your Mac's final major macOS release is more than two versions older than the current release, that will end and it will no longer be safe to use that Mac (at least while it's running macOS) on the Internet.

Considering the MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2019) is the most powerful Intel Mac laptop and the last flagship model to have been released prior to the Apple Silicon transition, it will probably be among the last Intel Macs to lose support.

If you are worried about resale value and do not need any function specific to Intel Macs (i.e. anything that requires you to be on x86-64 such as Boot Camp or virtualization of x86 and x86-64 operating systems), then you might as well start selling this machine now and looking for an M1 Pro based MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2021) or M2 Pro based MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2023) replacement as the resale value for this machine will otherwise keep going down. That all being said, the MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2019) model is probably still the best Intel Mac portable out there for those that still need such a thing and therefore has utilitarian value for that, if nothing else. (Certainly, when it comes to pretty much any other Intel MacBook Pro/Air model out there, there's no reason to hold onto any of those, by comparison.)

 

[Fishrrman]

"how to tell end-of-life?"

- The Mac shuts off, goes dark on you.
- You press the power on button and nothing happens.
- The computer just won't do what you want it to any longer.
- You've got money that's burnin' a hole in your pocket, just itching for "something new".

When these things happen, time to start looking for a replacement...

 

[pshufd]

My backup MacBook is the 2015 MacBook Pro 15. There's nothing wrong with it - it runs about the same as when I bought it. But I'm spoiled by my 2021 MacBook Pro 16. I am toying with buying an M3 Air 15 or upgrading to M3 next year and then the 2021 becomes the backup and then selling the 2015. Apple Silicon is nice in that the laptop doesn't get warm on your lap and I appreciate that in the summer.

I use Macs on unsupported operating systems with no problems. It makes for some fantastic deals on Mac hardware.

 

[Big Bad D]

"how to tell end-of-life?"

- The Mac shuts off, goes dark on you.
- You press the power on button and nothing happens.
- The computer just won't do what you want it to any longer.
- You've got money that's burnin' a hole in your pocket, just itching for "something new".

When these things happen, time to start looking for a replacement...

I was about to add a response, but can’t add anything more than this.