When will Apple finally make a watch adequate for Mountain Biking?

[xserret]

I'm certain that everybody will agree that Mountain Biking 🚵‍♂️ is actually one of the most practiced outdoor sports world-wide.

Maybe some of you also know that mountain biking has many disciplines, and from these "all mountain, Enduro and Bike-Park" are becoming the most popular every year, and the subject of the media covering by the most read media (e.g. Pinkbike, singletracks...) etc

I have been riding with my AW since Original, also had the S3, S5 and now the S8.
I always took the sports version because I felt the stain-less steel version was too expensive, and later the S5 Ti not yet adequate for the price.

I also took the small size even if I'm 6"2 180 Lb .... Because when your handlebar is vibrating like crazy at high-speed, the smaller the watch the better. You do not want any excessive weight there... the small Sports is just perfect.

Of course, I scratched the screen of them all, quite quickly, for the S5, I had two of them, and finally for the 2nd I always used a stick-on Plastic Screen Protector, and surprisingly I had no scratch

This year I tried the AW Ultra in the A store ... WHAT A JOKE.. this thing will shake off my grip out of the bike! 🤯🤯🤯

So 2 weeks ago I bought the S8 in Aluminum as I wanted an update from the S5... but in a week I already have a massive scratch on screen (done while gardening), I was just too slow to buy the screen protector and have it delivered in time. 😤


And what about the activities in WhatOs 9 ... .again nothing for MTB ... the stupid auto-pause remainds me stop my activity every time I stop 2 min (which is ultra common in MTB) , It doesn't have a clue of what a lift is (🚠-🚗 ), eMTB, extra exhaustion going down due to terrain conditions... and on an on...

Otherwise I love the AW... I guess all Apple employees that MTB must be locked down in the basement or something...

Such an important and lovely sport, what a shame no?

 

[bruinsrme]

Good question.
Not all mountains are created equally.
With e bikes becoming popular it maybe a bit more challenging. The açaí, a non- suspension, hard tail, and full suspension not only provide different rides but also different work outs.
It would be nice to have a dedicated workout

 

[russell_314]

Get the stainless steel 41 mm. It’s small but the screen is tougher on the stainless steel models.

It’s either that or use a screen protector.

It sounds like what you’re asking for when it comes to tracking should be provided by an app. I don’t know if there’s an app for mountain biking, but there should be. I know there’s Strava but that’s not specifically for mountain biking.

 

[russell_314]

Good question.
Not all mountains are created equally.
With e bikes becoming popular it maybe a bit more challenging. The açaí, a non- suspension, hard tail, and full suspension not only provide different rides but also different work outs.
It would be nice to have a dedicated workout

I think the problem with e-bikes is there would have to be some connection with the bike to know how much power output the bike is providing to figure out how much exercise you’re getting. I think that’s just something that’s going to take time when e-bikes mature.

 

[haruhiko]

ANT+ and accessories support is a must.
Or at least create a freaking ecosystem of approved accessories.
Now it's a joke for cycling.

 

[russell_314]

ANT+ and accessories support is a must.
Or at least create a freaking ecosystem of approved accessories.
Now it's a joke for cycling.

Are all bicycle accessories going by that standard now? I’m asking because I don’t keep up with a lot of the cycling tech. I have a Wahoo element that I occasionally use but I think it’s considered outdated today.

I know that’s the biggest problem with a lot of things with cycling is standards. As in there are none. Everything is proprietary. Well, that might be a bit of an exaggeration, but there are so many proprietary things on bicycles but it’s annoying.

 

[haruhiko]

Are all bicycle accessories going by that standard now? I’m asking because I don’t keep up with a lot of the cycling tech. I have a Wahoo element that I occasionally use but I think it’s considered outdated today.

I know that’s the biggest problem with a lot of things with cycling is standards. As in there are none. Everything is proprietary. Well, that might be a bit of an exaggeration, but there are so many proprietary things on bicycles but it’s annoying.

My SRAM electronic group set, the Favero power meter pedals, and the radar rear light can all send data to my Garmin head unit by ANT+, which Wahoo head units also support. so I think it’s rather universal now?

 

[bruinsrme]

I think the problem with e-bikes is there would have to be some connection with the bike to know how much power output the bike is providing to figure out how much exercise you’re getting. I think that’s just something that’s going to take time when e-bikes mature.

Great point. Bicycle manufactures are weak when it comes to implementing technology, digital. They seem to focus on weight weight weight.
I feel with the wealth of technology and expertise out there, bike manufactures could be leaps and bounds ahead of where they are.
Don’t get me wrong, when it comes to battery and driving the bike forward they’re there. When it comes to workout and such not so much.
Then again, how carful do they have to be in regards to using, capturing and analyzing biometrics.
Then again, Peloton seems to have a relatively robust workout.

The bike industry enjoyed for extremely fruitful years during Covid. Now it seems the business models are shifting, especially Specialized. I have a Project 1 fuel ex. The paint is amazing. The bike is incredible.
Not that I was looking for anything special but while paying a premium one could expect a little fanfare.
Nope, they could have made it any less personable.

Until manufacturers stop depending on third parties and put more focus on how their customers use their products and capturing that information electronically, I think it may be a while before apple integrates a viable solution.

Fox has done some incredible things with ride analyzation with Live Valve. There has to be something in that software that could better define ride data.

 

[wilberforce]

Yes, I think AW is of limited use for MTB - hard to read or interface with the watch: position (on a wrist) is wrong, most of the time cannot let go of a brake lever, too much vibration to read, cannot be pushing buttons during downhill, etc.

It does pick up heart rate while going uphill provided band is fairly tight, which is something. I can't see Ultra is much advantage. I use a Sigma GPS BC on handlebars for monitoring speed, cadence, elevation etc.

 

[russell_314]

My SRAM electronic group set, the Favero power meter pedals, and the radar rear light can all send data to my Garmin head unit by ANT+, which Wahoo head units also support. so I think it’s rather universal now?

I’m glad to see at least something is getting adopted as a standard when it comes to electronics. Has Shimano gotten on board with their electronic groupsets?

All this bicycle talk makes me want to buy a new bike 😂

 

[slomtbr]

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[Kayako]

I'm certain that everybody will agree that Mountain Biking 🚵‍♂️ is actually one of the most practiced outdoor sports world-wide.

Maybe some of you also know that mountain biking has many disciplines, and from these "all mountain, Enduro and Bike-Park" are becoming the most popular every year, and the subject of the media covering by the most read media (e.g. Pinkbike, singletracks...) etc

I have been riding with my AW since Original, also had the S3, S5 and now the S8.
I always took the sports version because I felt the stain-less steel version was too expensive, and later the S5 Ti not yet adequate for the price.

I also took the small size even if I'm 6"2 180 Lb .... Because when your handlebar is vibrating like crazy at high-speed, the smaller the watch the better. You do not want any excessive weight there... the small Sports is just perfect.

Of course, I scratched the screen of them all, quite quickly, for the S5, I had two of them, and finally for the 2nd I always used a stick-on Plastic Screen Protector, and surprisingly I had no scratch

This year I tried the AW Ultra in the A store ... WHAT A JOKE.. this thing will shake off my grip out of the bike! 🤯🤯🤯

So 2 weeks ago I bought the S8 in Aluminum as I wanted an update from the S5... but in a week I already have a massive scratch on screen (done while gardening), I was just too slow to buy the screen protector and have it delivered in time. 😤


And what about the activities in WhatOs 9 ... .again nothing for MTB ... the stupid auto-pause remainds me stop my activity every time I stop 2 min (which is ultra common in MTB) , It doesn't have a clue of what a lift is (🚠-🚗 ), eMTB, extra exhaustion going down due to terrain conditions... and on an on...

Otherwise I love the AW... I guess all Apple employees that MTB must be locked down in the basement or something...

Such an important and lovely sport, what a shame no?

the ultra is probably the only watch durable enough not to scratch or break doing those, just get a tight fitting band and it wont move

 

[chrfr]

I think the problem with e-bikes is there would have to be some connection with the bike to know how much power output the bike is providing to figure out how much exercise you’re getting.

No, that's a common misconception. The output by the rider is whatever it is. If the bike is providing a boost, then the rider will just be going faster than they would be on a traditional bike for a given effort level.

 

[bruinsrme]

I’m glad to see at least something is getting adopted as a standard when it comes to electronics. Has Shimano gotten on board with their electronic groupsets?

All this bicycle talk makes me want to buy a new bike 😂

I have both XTR and XX1. I have to be honest, I would rather ride my XTR bike over the XX1.
My number one complaint with XX1 is the shift lever itself.

 

[Jackbequickly]

I am still stuck at the “I'm certain that everybody will agree that Mountain Biking 🚵‍♂️ is actually one of the most practiced outdoor sports world-wide” statement.

There are a lot of different outdoor sports and not sure if mountain biking is on the top of the list!

 

[ndouglas]

I‘m curious, what metrics or features are you actually wanting for MTB? As a regular bicycle rider, I am content with the map that I only look at later to show me where I went, along with maybe the average speed, time and miles biked, etc. I can’t really fathom what mountain biking enthusiasts would need from a watch, especially since you have enough going on with all the bumps and twists and turns etc.

EDIT: I guess you listed some in your OP, sorry, I just don’t really understand what they mean. I do understand the auto-pause and that it could be annoying, I like it on, usually… but you can turn it off in settings.

 

[xserret]

the ultra is probably the only watch durable enough not to scratch or break doing those, just get a tight fitting band and it wont move

Trust me it will move like crazy... regardless of high tight it is, these vibrations are just too strong. So much weigh on my wrist can even become painful to bear.

 

[xserret]

I am still stuck at the “I'm certain that everybody will agree that Mountain Biking 🚵‍♂️ is actually one of the most practiced outdoor sports world-wide” statement.

There are a lot of different outdoor sports and not sure if mountain biking is on the top of the list!

Check the statistics.. it's always in the top 10 overall sports, in particular most 30+ segments.

 

[xserret]

Yes, I think AW is of limited use for MTB - hard to read or interface with the watch: position (on a wrist) is wrong, most of the time cannot let go of a brake lever, too much vibration to read, cannot be pushing buttons during downhill, etc.

It does pick up heart rate while going uphill provided band is fairly tight, which is something. I can't see Ultra is much advantage. I use a Sigma GPS BC on handlebars for monitoring speed, cadence, elevation etc.

Those things are mostly Ok to read for MTB-XC.
When going fast down, no way you can get your eyes out of the trail, even people with HUD-enabled googles find them difficult to read.
The point about using the AW is to read it when you are at stop or just riding up a forest-access trail, which usually is every 30 min at most.
Also in my experience, everybody that has a Garming Bike-GPS for acutal trail guidance and practices enduro an similar has to come to a full stop at any crossing 80% of the time, always too difficult to read.

 

[xserret]

Get the stainless steel 41 mm. It’s small but the screen is tougher on the stainless steel models.

It’s either that or use a screen protector.

It sounds like what you’re asking for when it comes to tracking should be provided by an app. I don’t know if there’s an app for mountain biking, but there should be. I know there’s Strava but that’s not specifically for mountain biking.

Yes, but SST has a very low UTS and overall hardness, so it means it will get scratched like crazy when in contact with a lot of sand & similar. For that price, not worth it over Al.
In my opinion the ideal watch right now could be Al, with Saphire.. but "positioning" and market segmentation strategy is limiting this.
Btw: Al 7075 /T5 could be a very nice option... lighter, and harder than most SSTs but you need full machining and casting is just so much cheaper!

 

[russell_314]

Yes, but SST has a very low UTS and overall hardness, so it means it will get scratched like crazy when in contact with a lot of sand & similar. For that price, not worth it over Al.
In my opinion the ideal watch right now could be Al, with Saphire.. but "positioning" and market segmentation strategy is limiting this.
Btw: Al 7075 /T5 could be a very nice option... lighter, and harder than most SSTs but you need full machining and casting is just so much cheaper!

The stainless steel case is significantly more scratch resistant than the aluminum one. It gets micro scratches but they can be buffed out.

Yeah I don't see Apple creating a fully machined part for an Apple Watch case. It would be ridiculously expensive and no one besides maybe a machinist would appreciate the extra effort put into making it.

 

[Armeniandave]

I ride 3 days a week on my mountain bikes with my AW7. I use the Misxi screen protectors and have had zero scratches on my last 3 watches. I also have the cellular version, so I leave my phone at home, which works out great. While I’m riding, I never even feel the watch whatsoever so I’m not sure how you think it’s too heavy for your wrist but I know stainless steel is definitely heavier. I have both an E bike and a regular bike and when I use my E bike I use my Garmin for all the statistics because I can see the screen and it’s more accurate.

 

[xserret]

I ride 3 days a week on my mountain bikes with my AW7. I use the Misxi screen protectors and have had zero scratches on my last 3 watches. I also have the cellular version, so I leave my phone at home, which works out great. While I’m riding, I never even feel the watch whatsoever so I’m not sure how you think it’s too heavy for your wrist but I know stainless steel is definitely heavier. I have both an E bike and a regular bike and when I use my E bike I use my Garmin for all the statistics because I can see the screen and it’s more accurate.

I did use full-screen add-on protectors in the past but proved very unusable for me. I do sweat quite a lot and the trapping of humidity in between screen and protector made all the on-screen manipulation impossible.
I also think, there is a difference between riding XC and ringing Enduro / All Mountain when it comes to vibration. What kind of riding do you pracice?

 

[beerglass007]

I'm a ex MX, Enduro, DH and XC racer and now mostly ride my Gen 3 Levo Ebike

I've had a alu AW4 and AW7 with zero marks, just had a stick on screen protector. I've went back to green laning and enduro racing on my KTM EXC 250 and never felt the watch on my wrist or felt it move

I currently ride a mixture of MTB, mostly off piste black trails on my Levo now. Normally 25 miles and 5000 feet per ride and done 3K miles in total on my AW7 without issue

I have just got an Ultra because I've started using the WOD application which allows me to download GPX files from strava and follow routes. The first ride was good and no different to AW7

 

[dubvulture]

This is why I use a Garmin Edge 1030 and chest strap. The head unit is on the Out Front Mount. Can’t imagine having to take my hand off the bars every time I want to check my metrics. Plus it gives me turn by turn for saved routes and Strava Live Segments.

I have an AW 6 but never use it for mountain/road biking.