Which historical 15 inch MBS have decent trackpad and keyboard

[fredfrog]

I have two mid 2012 MBPs running Catalina. Eventually I will be forced to move forwards and Monterey has a couple of nice features anyway. So I bought a 15inch MBP 2.8 i7 IG which, as I understand it is the latest 15 inch with upgradeable SSD (in practice if not in theory). But so far I hate the keyboard (short travel, presume butterfly) and trackpad (also short-travel, software "click"). I love the keyboard and trackpad on my 2012 MBP's - I get a definite click on the trackpad but on the 2015 it either goes off with the faintest touch or I have to press really hard. I'm not interested in force touch.

So I'm looking for the latest 15 inch which has decent trackpad and keyboard so I can run Monterey. I'm aware I can run Monterey on a 2012 using OCLP - and may do eventually but I want to run at least one machine currently supported by Apple for Monterey while I discover what *doesn't* work under OCLP. Everymac.com has great details on SSD's etc. but not so much on trackpads and keyboards. Some sources say that 2015 was the move to butterfly keyboards but that doesn't make sense to me because 2014 were thin unibody retinas weren't they (surely they needed thinner keyboards) ? Some 2014 machines as listed on Everymac as having an "inertial trackpad" but what does that mean ?

Can anyone help me through this muddle ? What I want is best MBP 15 with decent trackpad and keyboard (and NOT Apple Silicon).

Thanks

andy

 

[Silencio]

It was the 2016 generation of MacBook Pros where Apple switched to the dreaded butterfly keyboards, non-upgradable SSDs, removed legacy ports in favor of USB-C, etc.

For your needs, it sounds like a 2015 15" MacBook Pro is your best bet. When shopping for one, try to be cognizant of the age and condition of the battery, as a replacement battery will cost around $100 and it's kind of a pain to replace.

 

[fredfrog]

It was the 2016 generation of MacBook Pros where Apple switched to the dreaded butterfly keyboards, non-upgradable SSDs, removed legacy ports in favor of USB-C, etc.

For your needs, it sounds like a 2015 15" MacBook Pro is your best bet. When shopping for one, try to be cognizant of the age and condition of the battery, as a replacement battery will cost around $100 and it's kind of a pain to replace.

Sorry, thank you for trying, but this doesn't help (nothing like reading all of a post before responding - I do it all the time too ). I have bought, as I wrote in the post, a 2015 MBP and the keyboard is horrid (its short-travel - it may not be butterfly but I don't like it) and the trackpad is awful (one of the fancy force touch ones with the click noise in software) - that was the point of my post. My question really is "are the 2015 ones or early 2015 any better). -andy

 

[Sterkenburg]

Is your 2012 machine a rMBP or is it the non-retina unibody model? Because if the keyboard you like is that of the old unibodies (which I suspect because the move to the butterfly keyboard + Touch Bar happened in 2016, however you mention having a 2015 and not liking it), then unfortunately the MBP you have was the last model to sport that.

 

[fredfrog]

Is your 2012 machine a rMBP or is it the non-retina unibody model? Because if the keyboard you like is that of the old unibodies (which I suspect because the move to the butterfly keyboard + Touch Bar happened in 2016, however you mention having a 2015 and not liking it), then unfortunately the MBP you have was the last model to sport that.

no, my 2012 machines are non-retina - are the retina ones thin ? I'm also wondering if "inertial trackpad" means a trackpad that has a real click and is similar to the one on my 2012 non-retinas

 

[fredfrog]

no, my 2012 machines are non-retina - are the retina ones thin ? I'm also wondering if "inertial trackpad" means a trackpad that has a real click and is similar to the one on my 2012 non-retinas

I think if I got one with a decent trackpad I could probably manage with the keyboard -andy

 

[fredfrog]

Sorry, thank you for trying, but this doesn't help (nothing like reading all of a post before responding - I do it all the time too ). I have bought, as I wrote in the post, a 2015 MBP and the keyboard is horrid (its short-travel - it may not be butterfly but I don't like it) and the trackpad is awful (one of the fancy force touch ones with the click noise in software) - that was the point of my post. My question really is "are the 2015 ones or early 2015 any better). -andy

oops - sorry, I meant to write "are the 2014 ones or early 2015 any better:

 

[Madhatter32]

The mid-2014 and 2015 are the same chasis. They have the same keyboard. The mid-2014 is the last MBP built with a mechanical trackpad. For the 2015 devices on, the trackpads were force touch with haptic feedback. If you do not like the keyboard on these devices and do not like the Apple Silicon devices, I would recommend looking at a Levono which are well regarded for keyboards.

 

[fredfrog]

The mid-2014 and 2015 are the same chasis. They have the same keyboard. The mid-2014 is the last MBP built with a mechanical trackpad. For the 2015 devices on, the trackpads were force touch with haptic feedback. If you do not like the keyboard on these devices and do not like the Apple Silicon devices, I would recommend looking at a Levono which are well regarded for keyboards.

I think I'm going to go for a mid 2014 for the mechanical trackpad and put up with the keyboard. Long term, when I come off Apple I will get a Framework laptop and run Linux (I was linux before Apple - I went to Apple for the easy integration across devices, these days its much more possible to use other clouds and other platforms for integration than it was in the early 2000s when I left linux and went to apple (devices not company). Yes I have heard good things of lenovo too - didn't they take over Thinkpads ? (off-topic for this thread but ..)

 

[fredfrog]

Thanks everyone, particularly @Madhatter32 for clarifying things for me - I've decided to buy a 2014 for the mechanical trackpad and put up with the keyboard. That should keep me going for another 3-4 years.

 

[Madhatter32]

I think I'm going to go for a mid 2014 for the mechanical trackpad and put up with the keyboard. Long term, when I come off Apple I will get a Framework laptop and run Linux (I was linux before Apple - I went to Apple for the easy integration across devices, these days its much more possible to use other clouds and other platforms for integration than it was in the early 2000s when I left linux and went to apple (devices not company). Yes I have heard good things of lenovo too - didn't they take over Thinkpads ? (off-topic for this thread but ..)

Sounds like you have a good plan. Yes, Lenovo makes the Thinkpads. There are other good options in for Windows compatible laptops as well. The mid-2014 MBP is an excellent device. The downside is that you will probably not be able to run the most current version MacOS soon but that is probably not a major concern for you.

 

[Sterkenburg]

no, my 2012 machines are non-retina - are the retina ones thin ? I'm also wondering if "inertial trackpad" means a trackpad that has a real click and is similar to the one on my 2012 non-retinas

The 2012-2015 retina machines are noticeably thinner than the non-retinas, as Apple dropped the optical drive and the ethernet port with the redesign. The keyboard maintained the same layout and aesthetics, but as you have noticed the key travel was slightly reduced compared to the previous generation. The haptic trackpad was introduced later on the 2015 model, so the last MBPs that don't have them are from 2014.

Your current plan sounds good, just keep in mind that the trackpad mechanism change is not going to be reverted, so after the 2014 you would need to look for something else if you absolutely can't stand haptic feedback

 

[fredfrog]

The 2012-2015 retina machines are noticeably thinner than the non-retinas, as Apple dropped the optical drive and the ethernet port with the redesign. The keyboard maintained the same layout and aesthetics, but as you have noticed the key travel was slightly reduced compared to the previous generation. The haptic trackpad was introduced later on the 2015 model, so the last MBPs that don't have them are from 2014.

Your current plan sounds good, just keep in mind that the trackpad mechanism change is not going to be reverted, so after the 2014 you would need to look for something else if you absolutely can't stand haptic feedback

[OFF-TOPIC Yes I know. But generally the last three OS's are ok - its when they stop security updates that its definitely time to move on. So if I migrate to Monterey on a 2015 machine it will be 3 os's further forward until I have to move again (unless they introduce some feature I really have to have ;-) ). I'm still getting security updates on my 2012 Catalinas but I expect they will drop those soon - I've probably got three or more years at least before the 2015+Montereys bite the dust (I heard rumours that it would be very soon but they are just rumours). Apple is actually pretty good with old machines in my opinion. And even after the three years I have the OCLP (or whatever is the best then) route forwards. I'm semi-retired and not wealthy enough to keep up - the 2015 machine cost me £600 but a new Apple Silicon is £3000+. I wouldn't touch windows, I hate it. If M$365 (which I have to use for professional reasons) were 100% ok on linux I would use a linux machine again and go for a Framework laptop. Yes I know M$365 does run on linux but I don't trust it to be 100% compatible, e.g. with a 365 subscription. But my plan is that once I have a 2015 up running my work I'm going to OCLP to Monterey one of my 2012's and see how well it runs - and on the basis of that I *may* buy a Apple Silicon. One step forwards and one foot dragging - that's how I stay stable and not cut off - always run two or three machines so there is one to fall back on.]

 

[darngooddesign]

These are the Macs which will run Monterey

macOS 12 Monterey System Requirements

The first developer beta of macOS 12 Monterey is being made available immediately. Public betas will begin in July, and the shipping version will be released in the Fall. Once the shipping version is released, Tech to School will be offering it as a pre-installed OS option for Macs that can...

techtoschool.com

The 2015 MBPs have a great keyboard and trackpad.

The 2016+ MBPs have a great and bigger trackpad, but a weak failure prone keyboard.

 

[Silencio]

The 2015 Retina MacBook Pro has the exact same keyboard as the 2013-2015 models. The "butterfly" keyboard did not come around until the redesigned MacBook Pros from 2016. I don't mean to be condescending, but are you sure you're not confusing a 2016 model with 2015?

If you don't like the keyboard on the 2013-2015 models, you are not going to have much choice other than trying maybe a 2019 16" MacBook Pro or one of the 14" or 16" M1 Pro/Max MacBook Pros.